Micro 778: Be Yourself Mafia - Game Over

[Mathdino]

both of you need to make a good argument for why you're alive right now btw

and also probably why i'm alive

[CheekyTeeky]

I think it's beyond obvious why we're all here.

[Mathdino]

cheeky i'm leaning towards lynching you due to godawful self-votepark yesterday

like it's literally the exact thing mulch did

on one level i don't want to reward that play in any sense

and on another level it's just some scummy shit

so talk about that thanks

edit: humour me

[CheekyTeeky]

Lol I was never living/town winning today after yesterday. You guys legitimately should have lynched me then gone Eddie. He never intended to lynch me yesterday, the whole effing thing was a set up.

Also, it's nothing like mulchs self vote, dude was obv scum and even slipped unvoting himself.

[Mathdino]

then why didn't you just help me lynch eddie when he wouldn't let us lynch gamma

[CheekyTeeky]

Because I was feeling gamma scum at that point. It wasn't until I realised the scum tunnel wasn't going to stop and gamma starting saying towny shizz after I self voted that I realised it was eddie or me. But gamma had to selfhammer as town and here we are.

[CheekyTeeky]

Eddie has much better arguing skills than me so I'm pretty sure we've lost this. If it's not Eddie then you've played amazing Math, although I'll still claim I had you from the start

This game got interesting regardless. I have to go and won't be back for a few hours so gl us.

[Mathdino]

honestly the day before lylo i usually just suck up to people in order to get the lynch i wanted

i primarily favour you over eddie because of the self-vote shit yesterday

i have no idea how site meta evolved in such away that literally the majority of the playerlist can self-vote and it be acceptable

but i digress
i'm feelin pretty neutral right now

[Eddie Cane]

tomorrow

[CheekyTeeky]

Eddieeeeeee you dirty vanillaising scum! Come here. Why are you less scummy than Math? Why didn't you lynch gamma when we'd initially proposed it, why did you want gamma before me but then spent the time stalling and getting the players to pledge their loyalty to you like a Trump? We know you're coming here claiming this is all a witch hunt, hoax fake news.

How did you know for sure gamma was town? Your actions yesterday strongly imply you knew we were making it to Lylo today.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok fine have some sleep. Look how strong mind is, it summoned you.

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh I didn't reload the page...awkward.

[Mathdino]

Zero scum motivation in cheekys play yesterday with NSG not groupscum

Mulch, you still want to talk? NSG flip completely reversed this to me - guilty aside. Cheeky couldn't be scum without NSG being groupscum

Anyway. I know I'm town. I know Cheeky is town
Mathdino wasn't completely worthless and his only partner was SC
So we Lynch you, even if you're town it confirms mulch/UCV to me with the added bonus that if Kokichi is town tunneling me it and nothing else will cost him.the game.

Listen. say the 4 of us are town (I'm not negotiating cheeky scumread with anyone)

I guess mathdino might bus so eh but there's no resistance to UCV

closest thing that exists is Fissure pushing literally everyone else

From where I'm standing the two actual locktowns are myself and Cheeky

I both have no doubts about Cheeky's alignment and trust her reads

I think cheeky's town by play, there's certainly worse people,
Mathdino idk like he'd have had to be really sure the lie detector didn't exist. Which I guess I was at the time too so but would he have had the same level of conf. I had? idk
UCV is null to me

i would trust dino and raybells to have a better take on him but ucv, when he stops lurking, sometimes takes the time to sus things out on the most recent page (he doesnt backread which is. infuriating) while scum!ucv doesnt make as much of a fake effort to do anything

Actually I'm done guys, just lynch me, the tunnel aint gonna stop, then it's between Gamma/Eddie. Well played if it's Eddie.

I'm not scumreading you tho
also VOTE: Eddie Cane cos I trust Math more than him in lylo

WHY IS EVERYONE GETTING BULLIED INTO VOTING CHEEKY
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I WILL NOT LET CHEEKY GET LYNCHED

I forgot it was hammer but still
I'm not gonna let Eddie pull a Furio Tigre on everyone

Eddie is scum pls

Cheeky is town.

Cheeky is town eddie and I WENT TO BED AND WAKE UP TO 7 PAGES HOLY FUCK PEOPLE

Cheeky feels town by play I don't really get Gamma scum nor do I get this "scumslip"

maki what is ideal path

If Cheeky is scum I'm gonna do a backflip out my window man

is this another "cheeky my top tr gets mld" game whew boy

Any meta I have on Cheeky gets thrown out the window if she flips scum
but I don't think she is

CHEEKY ISN'T SCUIMMMMFHXDRTDTYY

NSG was untrustworthy and not following the game. Postie wasn't around when UCV was. Mulch called Cheeky locktown by meta and play, etc etc.

Have to check Mulch's posting and see if it feels alignment informed.

Also need to see if it looks like CT knew NSG was town.

Point is, this is basically an unjustifiable lynch if I lynch CT, which is theoretically mechanically correct, over Eddie here, who's clearly played better but has more scum motivation and is clearly the lynch that every dead person would prefer.

[Eddie Cane]

i am really not in the mood for stupid mathdino

[Mathdino]

Your case is meaningless to me at this point given that I was never able to get a clear and 2 lynches.

Hi-key wondering why you haven't cleared me as town yet but that's secondary to "why are you alive?"

[Eddie Cane]

Why CheekyTeeky is the last scum and you are all pocketed trash.

A Guide by Edward Canery

Part 1: PoE

- Maki is cop inno'd and I hard TR'd her before learning that. Not much needs to be said.
- Mathdino is lock town off play. His interactions with Mulch are not SvS.
- Kiana is hard town off meta and play. If you need me to focus in on something, her interactions with RT are town!Kiana. No, I don't have any meta to cite to support that, go read her games if you want she's pretty new to this site there aren't many. I don't get what's meant by "weak distancing with Mulch", looks fine to me. Scum Gamma is probably more aggressive here too, especially since all day he was the likely lynch and the best case for him was mislynching Dino and getting bopped in LyLo. Also, "Hi, Mathdino is obvious town to me, I'm not understanding why there are so many scumreads on her." lol. Kiana pushed NSG and pushed Mulch. I don't give a shit about any "scum slip" you're proposing, it is entirely believable people would misread that in a role pm if it wasn't their pm initially. I misread mine to be not only D2 at first before I double checked because of the stylistic choices in them being abnormal. People who tunnel on random things like this "scum slip" are people who mafia love to play with because they feed them the win. Seriously, I wasn't sure Gamma was town before but rereading the iso for this post I'm pretty damn sure now. The worst parts about the slot are targeting Maki n1. But, why do they claim that...? If they're fakeclaiming Tracker then they believe there won't be a town Tracker anyways so it doesn't need to be said and Maki would obviously know they got vanillized. Like, it isn't good, but it's not some damning thing. The claims make sense too, a novice or 1 shot Tracker is not something you notice at first glance, especially if the mod tells you you're effectively VT now.
- Obviously WIFOM, scum!Eddie just MLs Gamma -> Math for the W. Irrelevant because me into Cheeky wins the game.

Part 2: Mechanics

Spoiler: claims provided to you by Mathdinkle Industries

NSG: 1-shot strongman 1-shot ascetic serial killer, lynched D1.

Postie: 1-shot day Healer, this "heal" buffs certain roles. Healed RT. Died N1.

Mulch: Gives out fake ITAs during the day.

Mathdino: LyLo Gladiator (I can gladiate myself with other players). Effective VT.

SupremeCaregiver/MakiHarukawa: 1-shot (?) Lie Detector Day 1 OMGUS Doublevoter, attempted to lie detect NSG but she was hammered before the result came back. Can use a double vote on someone voting her on D1 (used on RT before disabled). Vanillaized N1.

RadiantTroubadour: D1 Poisoned 1-shot Voting Ability Disabler. Dies at the end of D1 unless healed (was told there is a healer). If killed N1, can create 3 person lynchpool the next day. Can also disable all voting based abilities for a single day.

CheekyTeeky: 1-shot Amnesiac Cop, random receiver. Copped SC/Maki, Kiana got the result.

NicoRobin/Kiana/Gamma: 1-shot Tracker. Turns into a full tracker if healed (was told there was a healer). Tracked Maki N1, no result.

Day 1:
Postie heals RT (poison removed)
SC doublevotes RT
RT disables voting abilities (SC doublevote removed)
Mulch gives out 3 ITAs, all failed
SC lie detects NSG's "I am town", never gave result because NSG dead

Night 1:
Postie killed
Maki vanillaized
CT copchecks Maki, result sent to Kiana/Gamma
Kiana/Gamma tracks Maki, visited no one

Day 2:
Mulch gives out 2 ITAs

Night 2:
RT killed

- In a Micro, SK + 2 groupscum is a lot of scum power. This is especially true when town doesn't have real protection, is powerless to stop the kills (ala roleblocker), 1 of them is 1 shot immune to investigations (powerful in a short game like a Micro with 2 kills), and member that can just die D1 unrelated to either kill.
- An Amne cop is a great way to hunt for that for scum and town, and the purpose of Amne is to provide the result to town so scum can't just keep it hidden. The role makes sense design wise.
- The only two roles claiming to be knowingly affected by Postie's healing are RT and Kiana. This makes awesome sense from a design standpoint: either you save the town PR but vanillize him, or you let the town PR die but you massively buff another town PR. The only counterpoint to this was an early "scum were given fakeclaims", which they weren't.
- Lie detector and amne cop are close to counter claims. Both are basically cops. 1x LD is stronger because you can parity cop two people and etc, but they don't really fit together. Don't get why people didn't mention that way earlier.
- viewtopic.php?f=23&t=74171 - viewtopic.php?f=56&t=73578 - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73043 having multiple actions in one night is nothing unheard of in Alisae games, and most of her JOATs can perform multiple but not unlimited. Yea yea, its a "not mafia" game and not an "alisae" game, despite me being told its an "alisae" game, I haven't played in a game before hosted by nm and am not gonna go spend hours modgaming for something unimportant. Saying someone getting vanillized conftowns Cheeky is garbage play and how you gamethrow doing garbage setup spec.
- Amne cop helps with SK /or/ creates a conftown, both of which are good for balance. Vanillize cripples a town role, perfect if you're copping someone. You want to talk about sketchy night actions? Cheeky amne copped Maki the same night they were vanillized... they did the exact same thing people are giving Gamma slot a bunch of shit over.
- Copping + vanillizing one target makes you watcher safe, tracker safe, and means you either vanillized the conf town you just created for your fake claim. Who knows, maybe the action is vanillizing cop, though I doubt it. Irrelevant.
- "She didn't try to take towncred for the cop!!" is not a valid response. She was never run up. What possible reason does a cop and by consequence a scum cop ever have to claim that they're a cop before they're l-1?

Part 3: Cheeky Scumcase

- My 2226 is a good extract, but look at their ISO next to Mulch. It is obvious SvS. Like, insanely so. To quote my own analysis,
- 1) every mulch and cheeky interaction is lighthearted and weak. there's no real "interaction", its all extremely surface level
- 2) cheeky has mulch as their top scumread and is barely on the wagon early game, and its hard to get a sense of time because i wasnt here but it looks like they only voted mulch late into d2 and mulch selfvoted soon after so it was very likely organized
- 3) cheeky did a fuck ton of buddying of rc, which makes sense because of their personal relationship and his controlling persona
- 4) mulch was setting cheeky up to endgame; had them as lock town, the whole ita shenanigans, etc
- 5) why would cheeky claim the amne cop result? a town wouldn't, it would be insulting to them to suggest scum!them would. you just attract a roleblock or a nightkill as town, so scum faking that role wouldn't claim it unless l-1d either.
- 6) notice how they chainsaw? rc scumreads cheeky so mulch discredits rc meanwhile cheeky pockets rc, hits it from both sides. mathdino pushes parallel etc
- RT had Cheeky caught early on. Eventually, between the cop and the buddying and the chainsaw discreding by Mulch RT got pocketed because RC is not a God of mafia who is incapable of failure. They're good friends. You're pushing your good friend, getting called stupid the entire time by someone you despise (#mulched), your friend is defending you the whole time and buddying up, what do you do? It isn't even trying to hide being pocketed.
- Following up to that, Postie and RC as the two most experienced players with Cheeky were the night 1 and night 2 kills because Cheeky knew she couldn't keep up the facade, as well as them being good kills otherwise.
- To focus in, all the ITA: Mulch stuff is almost cringy level of obvious SvS. Like, I am slapping my head against the wall ya'll are too focused on herpaderpmechanics to see this. That's the most obvious distancing / grab for towncred I've seen in a while.
- Amne cop is meant to be a claim that gets towncred while helping their wincon and balancing out against SK, it was played optimally for scum. Notice how they also conveniently vanillized the most threatening role? They had no way of presuming it was 1 shot afaik I'm under the impression that hasn't been claimed even to this date?
- And, a lie detector claim was very likely never getting mislynched so bang bing boom no risk high reward? I don't understand the statement "Maki was the day 2 lynch" in the slightest.
- False mechanical clearing themselves or their partners is common as fuck from Mulch. Invalid.
- Mechanically getting "cleared" is the only way scum!Cheeky endgames, they aren't a very strong scum player from what I know especially if people are saying that dumpster fire of an ISO is "out of their scum range".
- Stop with the "scum can't be vanillizer and cop" bullshit, that's a bad argument and you will never succeed in an Alisae game following it, because again
- This is partially an Alisae game and majorly a bigger troll and more bastard mod's game, and you are trying to use mechanics to solve it. Not only that, but you're trying to use bad premises wrongly to solve it. This is especially ironic coming from someone with "math" in his name. :shrug:

Part 4: AtE aka Why Should I Listen to Eddie?

-
- I am expressing 100% confidence in a scumread on Cheeky
- I am giving you the option of lynching Gamma first and having him cop me before we lynch him or lynching me to verify I'm town and then lynching him, I don't care, but I want a guarantee from all 3 players that he dies tomorrow or today
- Every person bleeds town besides him
- Yes, Mathdino, you're a confbiased asshole who's intent on gamethrowing. Nothing you've said about Gamma has been scummy, at all, that slot is just town.
- Yes, Maki, you're tilted and falling into the trap. You specifically should be listening to me, you've played a lot of Alisae games and a lot of Eddie games. You were in the last Alisae micro where Mastina and I caught and tunnelled both scum flawlessly and you and LUV ignored us and chose to gamethrow (particularly him). Especially important because

in that game you falsely mechanically cleared Gerry too. "How could scum's role just be a messenger? That doesn't make sense!

- Yes, Gamma, you're stupid too.
- This game has demonstrated over 90 pages ya'll are incapable of functioning properly. Fighting, whining, rage subs, false mechanical "clears", etc. You have a player you ALL except maybe Gamma and especially Maki should consider at the very least competent saying scum is 100% one player when we have 2 lynches left. Not listening to me for ONE of them is objectively garbage play. This isn't LyLo (yet, no thanks to you), you can't just write me off as scum and move on with it.
- Math, if you're so CERTAIN gamma SCUMSLIPPED because he couldn't parlay with the legendary MATHDINKLE, than you know I'm town and should be putting WAY more stock into what I'm saying. Not writing it off as "you weren't in the game your opinion is irrelevant". I've read enough to think this.
- Mulch is easy to partner read in a scenario like this. That is not a hard trait.
- I am willing to lynch myself, Mathdino, ideally Gamma, before Cheeky if you want to give him a night to get a guilty on someone. I am fine with that. I literally do not care how we progress as long as it involves every player who will be living past today to agree to do Cheeky if there isn't a guilty on someone.
- Yes, I agree it isn't a messenger probably. I will accept the loss if it is because I don't think I have any other choice. That is fine with me.
- Math, Gamma, stop being TvTing fuckwads and listen to your father.

if you read this and still want to lynch me you shouldn't be playing mafia

I'm at a party noe and not posting til tomorrow

[Mathdino]

I'm not rereading your case. At that point in the day I was

A. Willing to suck up to anyone to get my Gamma lynch

B. Assuming I could get 2 lynches and a cop clear on someone.

That goes out the window in the case that you're potential scum. Fresh start.

[Mathdino]

Plus you know full well I'm a sucker for cases ([REDACTED]). That case was never meant to convince Maki.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm just going to reply to all of your garbage posts tomorrow at once

[Mathdino]

fuck it i'll read it again

Part 1:

Your townreads of me and Kiana after the provable lie in the roleclaim feel potentially alignment informed.
Scum!Eddie doesn't go Gamma --> Mathdino, that's disingenuous, we agreed on UCV --> Gamma.

Part 2:

Mechanics argument doesn't work here. Scum!CT could easily just send the result on Maki to Mulch, if the amne cop was designed to help with SK. And if the goal was pocketing RC, could also just send it to RC.

Part 3:

NGL I didn't read this. But now that I have:

- Mulch's scumgame does not involve completely fucking ignoring his partner, it involves blowing up the thread with his partner. I know you know this.

- Cheeky never claimed the amne cop result.

- RT caught Cheeky by association with NSG. Period. Same here honestly.

- RT was locktowning Cheeky by meta, play, and role. Killing RC out of fear doesn't make sense when RC was personally willing to mislynch Maki over Cheeky.

- Everything else also basically applies to the possibility of you being vanillaizer. You were, at the time, arguing against the Tracker claim being scum.

Part 4:

- All of this obviously assumes you're town and that I was about to get a cop clear on you.

[Eddie Cane]

I was wrong about cheeky playing well I think. maybe the 4th best scum player, after rt gamma and math of course

[CheekyTeeky]

I was wrong about cheeky playing well I think. maybe the 4th best scum player, after rt gamma and math of course

This made me lol. I'm pretty sure everyone playing would've laughed at this too.

Can you please explain your town read on Gamma yesterday when you get back tomorrow?

[Mathdino]

Nope, can't justify this, sorry, especially after perusing that Eddie scumgame normal (was looking for meta on others).

Gladiate: Eddie Cane

VOTE: Eddie Cane

I'm annoyed that he hasn't voted CT already to confirm me but so it goes.

[Mathdino]

CT if you're scum i would really rather you not drag this out just because you get an auto-win off the gladiate thanks

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: eddie cane GG