Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[jmo16mla]

Prod dodging again. I will devote time to this tonight.

[Mathdino]

fuck it, you know what
i trust creature and A50 significantly more than i trust anyone on the gamma wagon

VOTE: Aneninen
also i think my aneninen tell works slightly better than random

choo choo guys

[Luca Blight]

What has A50 done to earn your trust?

@Pin - I will continue to iso soon, but I want to allow time for people to interact in between so it's not just me filling up the entire thread.

[Mathdino]

Good reads?

You seem to fundamentally disagree with the concept of sheeping good town players so we're really not gonna get anywhere here.

[Mathdino]

If A50 and Creature were wrong I think scum would've helped out with this wagon by now

[Luca Blight]

I meant what has A50 done to earn your trust this game? What makes you confident he is town?

[JaydragonKing]

If A50 and Creature were wrong I think scum would've helped out with this wagon by now

Seems... Spotty to me, considering scum KNOW there's both a Vigilante and a Jailkeeper. Drawing attention to themselves like that to help a wagon doesn't seem smart. Also, daily reminder of the fact that scum had pre-game time to strategize.

[pinturicchio]

If A50 and Creature were wrong I think scum would've helped out with this wagon by now

Under that logic, almost nobody jumped on NSG wagon when you tried to give that a push, so NSG could be scum because of this? I don't think so... And the reverse logic: the Gamma wagon got some momentum, was that scums jumping on that wagon? You were one of those votes, you know

[Mathdino]

@Jay: A50 and Creature are safer people to sheep than Gamma, and Aneninen is a hilariously easy person to push as a player.
I don't know what you're trying to tell me with your post really?

@pintu: My push on NSG was worthless. It was very explicitly a reaction test. If NSG is town, scum would just know that she's town and would probably come out as town under pressure. Not a wagon they want to be found on. Aneninen is not so easily sortable by pressure.

And yeah, I do think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon at some point. And yeah, I do know I'm one of those votes.

Are you scumreading me, or pointing out that I should be scumreading myself here?

[Creature]

Damn when I want to do stuff but I remember the wagon I'm in is good.

[Mathdino]

Do stuff anyway.

Find Aneninen partners for me? He just ended a scumgame, PT shows high willingness to bus.

Also if you could help me townbin more people that would be pretty cool.

[Creature]

What about mutantdevle?

[Mathdino]

I meant what has A50 done to earn your trust this game? What makes you confident he is town?

Forgot to respond to this.



EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It's hard to explain. I guess I just think I can read the guy. Not like, soulread or know everything he's thinking/planning, but there are signs of certain things going on I guess?

You're not going to get a satisfactory answer on this, sorry. I'm just townreading him.

Edit: You're thinking Aneninen/mutant busteam?

[Creature]

No, just asking you about mutantdevle.

[Creature]

lean scum

JayDragonKing

(too much fluff, too little content)
Almost50 (too little content but that doesn't match the town-meta I know.)
Gamma (little content but see what I brought up)
Jmo16Mla (see my posts, nothing big but plenty of concerning bits.)

scum

Northsidegal

(explained above.)

If Anen is bus-happy, then most likely the bolded.

[Mathdino]

Have you ever completed a game with NSG btw?

And idfk about mutant. I'm not willing to put in too much effort reading him until I do that metadive and see if I can find some kind of difference in his play.

[Luca Blight]

Mutant's play here is very different to the other game I played with him; he was a lot more forthcoming and assertive, and was easily townread by everyone. The only post that reminded me of his play from that game was his inital case on Gamma.

That was his first game on this site though so maybe he's changed a bit.

[Aneninen]

RAGE ON

NOW
I'VE FUCKING STOPPED CARING ABOUT THIS GAME.

Let me explain, why.

There haven't been a fucking case presented against me.

I have three votes: one from Creature who HAS NEVER talked to me. One from Almost50, who spat out that I'm scum because I'm scum. So far he has asked ONE question from me, which I have answered. HE HAS NEVER GIVEN A FUCKING REACTION TO THAT. Aaaaaaaaaaand we have Mathdino who HAS NEVER EXPLAINED his read either, apart from "that's PoE". Yet he's started to find my PARTNERS. Frankly, WHAT THE FUCK, MATH? You know, whenever I do fucking partner analyses without a scum flip all the town tell me "that's bullshit and empty speculation without a scumflip".

The only person who has acutally POSTED a case about me was Gamma. I gave answers. Isn't it strange that he's not on my wagon? Luca asked questions and if it has ANY fukcing use I'll answer that.

But there is NOTHING to answer for these events. There have been plenty of talk ABOUT me and plenty of talk AT me. However, those who are scumreading me have never talked TO me.

I've always hated these kind of games, and I'm telling you why.
Even if I stay alive, NOONE WILL GIVE A SHIT TO MY POSTS.
I COULD point out a lot of things. As a start, I could link you my latest rage where I was town and games where I was scum and got wagoned early. You COULD see the difference. IF YOU FUCKING CARED.

BUT

I won't give a shit to a game where no matter what I do it doesn't change anything. NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO STAY ALIVE. I don't fucking care. (I would say it would be better to Vig me and lynch scum, but you would call that scummy because Aneninen is scum because he is scum.) It's because even if I'm alive my posts would be worth SHIT. That is not fun, you must admit.
And I WON'T spend hours to tell things only to see no fucking person answers them. I WON'T spend ours to answer questions if no fukcing person would actually THINK about my answers.

I know these kind of games happen every now and then. But I'm not obligated to put any effort into these. Because IT WOULD BE FUCKING POINTLESS.

RAGE OFF

I'm willing to answer posts like Luca's IF I'm asked to do so. But only until I can see that my answers MATTER.
Otherwise, I refuse to do anything unless I start to feel: it's NOT one of those games.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler: Compare this from Mutant's Town game:

Hey, so here are my reads that nobody asked for:

Yuria - Slightly scummy in my opinion. They only have 2 posts and they avoided a question with another question. Whilst this stuff isn't really a scum tell overall they don't seem that useful to the town so I would be up for lynching them since we don't know much day 1.
Ectomancer - Whilst I'm split on the tell of their tactic to force wagons on us, they seem fairly reasonable and like someone who is willing to at least contribute a lot. So at the moment, I think they are worth keeping around.
IceGuy - I don't really get many vibes from him of either alignment. I don't really see why there are votes against him.
DeasVail - He seems very friendly. To the point where I would derp clear him as town. Though this is mafia, so a nice guy approach might just be a facade.
Transcend - His posts consist of a whole lot of nothing and some of them are somewhat misleading. The only credit I could give them right now is that they are active. But the slight scumminess in the lack of sense that they are writing means I would be comfortable lynching them at this stage.
Fishythefish - I trust the fishy for now. I would like to see him post a little more though as I feel like he has more to offer than what we've seen so far.
Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.
Luca Blight - Another player that seems reasonable in what they are saying. I feel like he has a way of seeing wider logic which I think is useful late game.
kelbris - I like his logic and how he offers his opinion into the discussion. He is a seemingly useful player that I would not be comfortable lynching day 1.
sheepsaysmeep - He seems rather unnoticeable to me. Before isolating his posts I only thought he had 1. Other than that they seem okay though.
havingfitz - I don't like how he passively suggested Transcend revealed being the IC so early in the game. Pretty scummy if you ask me. Whether or not they are indeed mafia I think this kind of bad thinking wouldn't be helpful to town in the long run so I'd be willing to lynch them day 1. Despite this, they do seem like they would be helpful.
Lil Uzi Vert - He has not been helpful in anyway whatsoever. Hist posts are literally just an introduction, votes, and a single emoji. Based on how I vote on day 1 lynches, which if you haven't noticed is more based on usefulness than it is scum tells, he is the person I would be most prepared to lynch.

mutantdevle - He seems like an utter noob which can get annoying. Not sure what to make of this guy.

davesaz - They haven't spoken in a long time. I'd like to see them speak more.




Btw my attitude towards day 1 lynches is, since we don't know much, I prefer to lynch based on how useful I think the players will be. The only time I really move away from this is if either someone makes a proper slip and we can actually be fairly confident that they are actually scum or the pressures of time means that I'd have to vote for somone I am not really okay with lynching but still think it is worth losing them in order to not end the day in a no lynch.

Spoiler: To his reads list in this game:

Reads list here, if anyone wants me to explain any of them then feel free to ask:

Town

Mathdino

Town lean

JaydragonKing
Aneninen
TheGoldenParadox

Null

Almost50
Pinturicchio
jmo16mla

Scum lean

Luca Blight
northsidegal
Creature

Scum

Gamma Emerald


VOTE: Creature
I was going to vote Gamma here but then Math posted 397. Slightly cautious that Math is scum trying to guide us but I don't believe that based on my town read and I'm sure if those pings are true then there'd be something to it later in the game.

Also note the first one is earlier in the game than the one he posted this game - too early for such a reads list really, but just look at the curiosity and enthusiasm in that post as well as his comfortable tone.

[Mathdino]

*raises hand*
I've been reading Anen's posts, just not the triple wall v wall v wall of the last few pages or so.
I might go back and actually digest it all soon.

@Luca: Good catch. Gonna go over my games with mutant to see if that can be generalised.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Anen is probably town. This frustration looks very townie.
Also being sure that people are town is a scumtell, because scum know the alignments of every person in game. Math is saying I'm locktown and implying the same for A50. While I know math tends to throw reads like obvtown and locktown around, this feels different somehow. It feels more like alignment knowledge than anything.

[Mathdino]

i mean as long as you agree A50 is town, you can call me alignment informed all you want

so why are A50 and creature both wrong about aneninen?

[Mathdino]

if you wanna go the alignment informed route, you could also argue that i've been distancing or bussing, in which case you should probably help me bus right?

[mutantdevle]

Spoiler: Compare this from Mutant's Town game:

Hey, so here are my reads that nobody asked for:

Yuria - Slightly scummy in my opinion. They only have 2 posts and they avoided a question with another question. Whilst this stuff isn't really a scum tell overall they don't seem that useful to the town so I would be up for lynching them since we don't know much day 1.
Ectomancer - Whilst I'm split on the tell of their tactic to force wagons on us, they seem fairly reasonable and like someone who is willing to at least contribute a lot. So at the moment, I think they are worth keeping around.
IceGuy - I don't really get many vibes from him of either alignment. I don't really see why there are votes against him.
DeasVail - He seems very friendly. To the point where I would derp clear him as town. Though this is mafia, so a nice guy approach might just be a facade.
Transcend - His posts consist of a whole lot of nothing and some of them are somewhat misleading. The only credit I could give them right now is that they are active. But the slight scumminess in the lack of sense that they are writing means I would be comfortable lynching them at this stage.
Fishythefish - I trust the fishy for now. I would like to see him post a little more though as I feel like he has more to offer than what we've seen so far.
Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.
Luca Blight - Another player that seems reasonable in what they are saying. I feel like he has a way of seeing wider logic which I think is useful late game.
kelbris - I like his logic and how he offers his opinion into the discussion. He is a seemingly useful player that I would not be comfortable lynching day 1.
sheepsaysmeep - He seems rather unnoticeable to me. Before isolating his posts I only thought he had 1. Other than that they seem okay though.
havingfitz - I don't like how he passively suggested Transcend revealed being the IC so early in the game. Pretty scummy if you ask me. Whether or not they are indeed mafia I think this kind of bad thinking wouldn't be helpful to town in the long run so I'd be willing to lynch them day 1. Despite this, they do seem like they would be helpful.
Lil Uzi Vert - He has not been helpful in anyway whatsoever. Hist posts are literally just an introduction, votes, and a single emoji. Based on how I vote on day 1 lynches, which if you haven't noticed is more based on usefulness than it is scum tells, he is the person I would be most prepared to lynch.

mutantdevle - He seems like an utter noob which can get annoying. Not sure what to make of this guy.

davesaz - They haven't spoken in a long time. I'd like to see them speak more.




Btw my attitude towards day 1 lynches is, since we don't know much, I prefer to lynch based on how useful I think the players will be. The only time I really move away from this is if either someone makes a proper slip and we can actually be fairly confident that they are actually scum or the pressures of time means that I'd have to vote for somone I am not really okay with lynching but still think it is worth losing them in order to not end the day in a no lynch.

Spoiler: To his reads list in this game:

Reads list here, if anyone wants me to explain any of them then feel free to ask:

Town

Mathdino

Town lean

JaydragonKing
Aneninen
TheGoldenParadox

Null

Almost50
Pinturicchio
jmo16mla

Scum lean

Luca Blight
northsidegal
Creature

Scum

Gamma Emerald


VOTE: Creature
I was going to vote Gamma here but then Math posted 397. Slightly cautious that Math is scum trying to guide us but I don't believe that based on my town read and I'm sure if those pings are true then there'd be something to it later in the game.

Also note the first one is earlier in the game than the one he posted this game - too early for such a reads list really, but just look at the curiosity and enthusiasm in that post as well as his comfortable tone.

Yeah, I don't do that anymore.

Comparing my play to the one I played with you is probably the least accurate representation of me. That was the first game I had ever played where everyone present was there to take the game seriously and I just so happened to get a PR (admittedly I was a bad innocent child getting town read so much). On my previous forum you were expected to have strong reads by page 3 or you'd get called scum so that's why that was so early. I probably was more enthusiastic for that game since I could put a lot more time into it then. I'm bogged down by college work now as I have been for my last few games.

[pinturicchio]

I think the accusations against you were baseless, so I fought against them. Honestly it might have been a stretch to call you a townread then but w/e

I'll have to sort you again, this was the exact reply I was waiting from you.
UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald