In post 644, Joey_ wrote:Holy crap actually someone on this site aknowleding that they made an error over arguing on semantics and omgusing. I will give it the botd UNVOTE:
Sa'll good. I appreciate you being critical of that stuff, because that's usually what I tend to do--I really can't deal with when someone's representation of the game isn't how I see the game, and that sort of disparity tends to inform my scumreads.
Why were you so sure Brass was scum, though? Sorry if you explained it already, I'd rather see it now than go ISO digging.
I wasn't sure, Im having trouble finding scumreads d1 in most game and its even worse in this one, i think that the player base and everyone is performing quite well. Brass was my fos at the time because obviously he had shit tier content and it was aggravated in comparison to the rest of the table. That was most of my fos here then he softed a thousand time and i just realized he was doing something on purpose.
Initially i though that he had an ability about wagons
Oh, that makes sense, given he was going for a slayer's sort of gambit thing. That's the inherit issue with that gambit--trying to look scummy to attract votes doesn't just mean you're attracting scum votes. So it's important to be able to differentiate who is town and voting there versus who is scum and voting there. I feel like you're probably more likely town than not for voting it if only because you figured something fishy/wagon related was gonna happen and you stuck with it anyway.
That said,
@Brass:
Dunno if you got back to me or whatever, but did you figure anything out from your attempt at gambiting around IC? iirc you didn't have anything conclusive, but I could be wrong and also you've had more time to think on it now.
Dunno if you got back to me or whatever, but did you figure anything out from your attempt at gambiting around IC? iirc you didn't have anything conclusive, but I could be wrong and also you've had more time to think on it now.
I did respond, but, I really think Dunker is scum.
I also got a few town reads from it, but not as much as I was hoping. I do think revealing with the World Congress still up for grabs ended up being a better play than anything I was able to do with my gambit, though.
Dunno if you got back to me or whatever, but did you figure anything out from your attempt at gambiting around IC? iirc you didn't have anything conclusive, but I could be wrong and also you've had more time to think on it now.
I did respond, but, I really think Dunker is scum.
I also got a few town reads from it, but not as much as I was hoping. I do think revealing with the World Congress still up for grabs ended up being a better play than anything I was able to do with my gambit, though.
My 2 cents : Dunkers a well known lynch bait and his flip won't make a difference to the game, i suggest you try to poke and flip more active/readable players
And what are the townreads/why? I'm having issues sinking my teeth into this setup, so any bit of insight is nice.
If ya don't wanna share for -reasons-, I can get that, I guess.
I also think the World Congress play is probably for the best, yes.
I just find when Dunker tried to say I made a scum claim, but still pushed a Gamma lynch for Gamma being "worse" when there is no explanation for it seems to me like a scum move. I think Gamma is likely town, personally, and Dunk's actions scream to me of scum trying to get the mislynch on one today, then set up a mislynch of me tomorrow.
I also think that Chara is likely town as she was the first to call out my scummy behavior, which is also why I kind of like Joey_ for a town read as well. WIFOM, perhaps, but scum at the time were the only ones who knew I was not aligned with them. Seems too conspicuous to vote the way they were when it was going to be a mislynch in the end.
I also like that throughout the time I was throwing my vote around, Ranmaru was calmly questioning. I'd townlean on that.
As to Dunk being common mislynch bait, I am not aware of Dunk's meta.
So, I've been sitting on a discovery I made for awhile now, and if I told you, it might tilt a bit of your reads and also help you to understand why I'm finding Klazam so scummy.
The problem is that I could be wrong since I'll be able to tell more clearly once we've got more mod-confirmed info like flips.
Dunk is VI, get ml'd every single game (almost) and im not exaggerating that much. I personally thinks hes readable if you take the time to read the guy but no ones to do that because hes just "objectively" scummy versus his scumplay where he's actually scummy
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
In post 466, BuJaber wrote:I have more to say about that but are you actually claiming it or not?
I am not, I was toying with that claim or a claim of Masons with Nero for my final part of my gambit.
I'm an innocent child.
Why would you claim this when you are nowhere near a lynch? Like, I don't understand the reasoning for this at all.
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
In post 477, Joey_ wrote:@brass you realize that being scummy on purpose while softing that your behavior is role related defeats it’s own purpose, even more so considering town is much more inclined to push someome scummy softing than scum knowing you are a real pr. If you wanna slayers gambit then go balls deep, dont half ass it
Okay, learning process. I apologize to all town that I did so poorly at my attempted play. I'm going to get better. I'll probably be the night kill
I'm not sure we should make Brass Host leader because he will 100% be night kill tonight. And I feel he could essentially be a 3rd Host because his opinion would have a lot of weight anyway. This way we get a town block of 3 instead of 2.
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
In post 496, Shaziro wrote:you don't want to have to justify why you're unhappy with Ranmaru but fine with me doing the same thing.
ummmm I saw your point and moved on.
Not good enough, sorry.
Anyone who has not voted for a World Congress host needs to be voting Brass, as they are modconfirmed town. Do the damn thing. You literally -can't- have a stronger townread.
Just explained why I disagree with this, hopefully others agree.
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
In post 516, brassherald wrote:It's probably easiest for me to list the people I am flat out against making the runner up.
Kokichi, Dunker, Almost50, and Creature.
Why would you be against me? I'm not sure I understand your reason for being against me.
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
How in the fuck did you join in 2011 and yet have no idea that AI means Alignment Indicative and also not know not to go and freakin' throw out a vote you -can't move- on somebody based on what I think you said was like 4 pages of reading, out of a damn 20-something page game. Jesus fuck I hate it when people don't even -skim- the game to catch up before making big calls, AAAAAAAAAGH.
In non-rant news, I still want to hear from ActionDan, and also A50 is 100% scum in my mind if Klazam flips scum, based on the way he just tried to distract from the suddenly building wagon on Klazam with some super weak sauce. Yeah, it was a shitty dumb thing to do that scum -could- have motivation to do, but a vote on pidgey might as well be a non-vote at this juncture, and A50 should know that. Gross.
I mean, I'm not that good with acronyms. WIFOM and FOS and the more usual ones are the ones I use. Not really big into the ~Lingo~ of mafia. I'll give you it was dumb to vote on the World Leader thing, but I didnt knew we couldnt unvote to be honest and Tidus was a decent pick. Plus I dont think that whatever happens is gonna be incredible huge anyway because it would be tough to balance the game around it if it is.
But like, do you even have a read on me, or is that just IIOA!?
In post 578, brassherald wrote:Since my post seems to have been lost to the internet ether. Kokichi is both a scumlean for me and in my view, a bit of a wild card. Even if he was townlean from me, I don't want someone who is as unpredictable as I have seen him be.
Now I'm glad you'll likely be N1'd. I've caught you when you were obvious scum before. Do you find my game different than the one you replaced out of when I caught you as scum?
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
Aaaaah, I'm just gonna post this and hope I'm right. I've been debating it because I think that if I am wrong and we make these setup assumptions, it could really kick us in the ass.
I was thinking a lot about what's keeping scum from just completely gaming the delegates, especially considering the snowballing that happens if scum manage to get multiple delegates.
As an earlier post of mine implies, I figured it was initially just a balance point of either scum knowing resolutions already (no info to be gained from being a world leader) or that a lot of scum voting a world leader in would be very obvious.
I then realized that it's much more likely the setup is multiball and that scum teams are only two or three players. Why's that?
1. What really tipped me off was the non-specificity of my role PM and the opening posts in regards to a 'scum team'. There's mention of eliminating 'all threats to town', but that's it.
2. I thought for sure the 'all threats to town' was an absolute nod to the game being multiball because of the wording, but after digging Venmar's mod-meta, I've discovered:
--a) Venmar uses the same wording even in his singleball setups with exclusion of an open setup he ran way back in 2012.
--b) Out of over 5 different setups of Venmar's design, only one of them was singleball entirely.
3. Given the flavor of the theme (multiple civilizations forming alliances, the fact people often play multiple 'teams', the multiple wincons in the game that different civs shoot for, etc.), there are several avenues to make this a multiball game
4. Singleball would actually make the World Congress mechanic unbalanced in favor of scum.
5. If anti-town factions have daychat, then there's NO WAY that the game is singleball, because the amount of co-ordination a full-size singular scumteam could do in this kind of setup with daychat would make the world leader mechanic almost pointless for town. However, if there are multiple smaller teams, daychat makes a lot more sense. I did not check Venmar's previous games to see if daychat was normal in his setups, but I do recall there being encryptors in the setup.
I had this revelation awhile back, between posts 100 and 200, because I had a pretty dynamic shift in how I was viewing the game/mechanics by 226 and forward.
Assuming multiball, we should be a lot more critical of the people who are laying low and self-voting, like Klazaam, because in multiball:
1. Scum players are likelier to self-vote and get a partner to boost them.
2. Scum players are likelier to avoid voting people they don't have a hard townread on because they need to avoid the other scum team become leader, too.
2. Scum players are likelier to lay low and not draw a lot of attention to themselves because they don't want to catch a cross-kill because cross-kills are what makes scum lose very fast in multiball.
This is why I townread Elbirn so hard, because he self voted but didn't seem aware of the mechanics all that much, then voiced support for Kokichi, who is not likely to be on the same scumteam as him if he was scum--if Elbirn were scum aware of multiball, he'd be way more hesitant to couch support of someone with some votes on them already. Furthermore, Elbirn's opening posts draw a lot of attention to him, imo, and wouldn't make sense coming from a multiball scum player PoV.
In post 578, brassherald wrote:Since my post seems to have been lost to the internet ether. Kokichi is both a scumlean for me and in my view, a bit of a wild card. Even if he was townlean from me, I don't want someone who is as unpredictable as I have seen him be.
Now I'm glad you'll likely be N1'd. I've caught you when you were obvious scum before. Do you find my game different than the one you replaced out of when I caught you as scum?
Yes that's part of my issue here. You were town there.
And please don't imply that I replaced out because of you. If you read the dead thread you know why I replaced
