Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Creature]

I still don't get it, are you say it's NAI for Paradox is point the FOS or that it's NAI for Taly to vote Doom over A50?

The latter.

[Creature]

I think the Creature wagon is a good investigative point for us.

Sounds like a lazy excuse.

[Creature]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you meant wagoning me is good because it's informative.

[Creature]

Spoiler: Cool

Spoilers have changed

[Sando]

@ The bold and underlined part; are you meaning that you haven't gauged the reaction you're expecting from Creature?

No, I'm saying that I expected one of two things, and that I got one of the two things. Either a) Creature would continue to lurk or b) Creature would become active. Option (b) is what came to pass. Creature is, so far, well outside of his scum meta, I got one of the reactions I was expecting to ascertain that.

Do you see Shadpearl in the town area?

This is what I mean by you over-reacting, the massive bold text with these types of statements. You're right that you put him in the null section, that doesn't change my argument that me and Shad have at best been exactly the same on 2 important points to you, and at worst Shad is much worse on those points, yet I'm scumlean and Shad is null. Apparently you're misunderstanding me, so I'll make my statements and arguments crystal clear here:

Statements:

I initially read you as town, I'm now reading you as null, ie you've slipped from town to null due to recent interactions in my eyes. I now also think that a Shad!scum would give strong indications of you being scum with him.

Arguments for why:

• You've argued that my vote on Creature is scummy.
  You've argued that my movement from Creature to A50 is scummy.
  You've null-read Shadpearls vote on Creature
  You've null-read Shadpearls movement from Creature to A50

This is despite that my arguments for voting Creature are articulated and meet an expected pattern:

• Sando votes Creature and says a lurking Creature is scummy (Post 40)
  Sando says he's VLA for 24 hours (Also Post 40)
  Sando posts 24 hours and 14 minutes later saying that Creature is no longer lurking and articulates why A50 pushing meta on Creature is scummy. (Post 133)

So that, to you, is scummy. But Shadpearls is "null":

• Shadpearl votes Creature and says he "would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote. "
  Shadpearl does not post for ~26 hours
  Shadpearl quotes Paradox and votes A50 with no independent reasoning

So to be clear:

• Sando articulates reasoning for Creature vote, half an hour later Shadpearl votes Creature
  Sando says he's VLA and almost exactly when VLA is over posts with reasoning on why removing the vote and gives reasoning for voting A50
  Shadpearl posts 2 hours after Sando's vote on A50 to also change his vote onto A50 with no independent thought given.

So when I do it, it's scummy, but when Shadpearl does the same with less reasoning and though, it's Null?


Can you now see why I think what is written in my Statement?

[Creature]

I need some inspiration to play this game.

There are way too many scummy players.

[Creature]

Where is JaydragonKing?

[Creature]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

[Creature]

Based on my re-review, I'm actually losing townreads.

[Almost50]

Spoiler: Cool

Spoilers have changed

Spoiler:

to protect the innocent.

Thunderbirds are go!

[Almost50]

Based on my re-review, I'm actually losing townreads.

Mayday. Mayday.

[JaydragonKing]

Where is JaydragonKing?

I have been summoned.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I need some inspiration to play this game.

There are way too many scummy players.

i'm lurking here b/c i'm not enjoying this game at all and i'm quickly losing motivation to play.

[JaydragonKing]

Because you immediately got caught as scum or...?

[doomfeathers]

I'm very sorry I haven't been posting; I've been sick and distracted. I'll catch up second thing in the morning. Thank you guys for your patience!

[Shadpearl]

Oh dear. I feel like this fell apart rather quickly then.

How about I speak a bit and give ya'll new data to rip to shreds? Lol

This is my first game here, as a few picked up on already. I've played Mafia-type games before, but never with so long a time limit. I'm used to playing hard and fast. I've never played a game where the day phase lasted more than a week and Day 1 never more than three days at longest.

Basically, I'm used to jumping in wherever at the start and theorizing later on. Also, being new, I'm gonna be playing a bit of a reactionary game to start with. <:] Sorry for not helping much with the intrigue.

As for my thoughts, I didn't want to lynch Doom in my first post (something that was apparently way more significant than I thought, lol) because, as I said, he was getting the ball rolling. Coming from other sites where you could play, get invested, then suddenly be plagued by dropouts at the drop of a hat GETTING TALKS GOING IS GOOD! I guess I could go ahead and clearly post my own 'meta' here: If you're active and not obviously scummy, I won't want to boot you straight off. I want to play and have fun, like everyone else

I don't really think I know anything helpful this early on but here are my insights: Doom was helpful to start, but his posts have dropped off sharply. Someone mentioned early on that Creature was very perceptive when he played town. Does that mean something?

Creature IS posting, but they are so short and bland. Idk if this is the norm here or not but if I hated playing a killer and got stuck with it but didn't want to get roasted by the mod, that's probably what I would do. (Again, idk of that is something mods do here or not. Sorry creature if I'm just a noob. ^-^).

Almost50 got on that bandwagon REALLY quickly and seems very concerned to get their point across. I feel like he's pushing too hard but WHY? Is he intimidated by Creature? He commented on a get-back (I think? May have been someone else. I'm sure one of you will spot check me, haha) and that just felt... Defensive. Or guilty. Or both! The first round isn't supposed to last ages so sure! Good enough for me!

The Golden Paradox... Your avatar is so cool. I'll be really bummed if he's a killer. x) He came to the same conclusion I did (close enough at least) so I'll back it. Votes aren't lifelines and I'm supposed to use 'my vote and my intellect' right? On the first page? Har har?

Lacendia? Or... Something? (Sorry. I'm on my phone and listing by memory) Apparently she hopped on the creature wagon but we think she's lying? Idk. This game is so early. This feels like pulling at straws. It might be important later (with more suspicious behavior to look at), but does it really help NOW?

Anenien - I was really hoping to get more of an explanation of what was supposedly different about Tex's game? But he/she? didn't really give much which WOULD be suspicious, I think, but their post seemed so helpful. I'm torn. Sorry I don't have more to add. >~<

Taly - why would you post such a long and accurate list of your thoughts? You are basically begging for people to tear it to shreds and if you are right, aren't you painting a target on your back? (Side Note - I realize I'm doing the same thing but I'm about as intimidating as a kitten atm so short of getting lynched the killers don't really have a reason to gun for me, haha) / Side Note 2: Yeah, this bit is more of a direct question but, what can I say? Curious minds want to know. Taly isn't (to my understanding) under threat. Why give out all this information so freely?)

Uh.. Uh..

Sando. I don't really have anything, lol. No one accused you yet so I haven't really paid attention. It's kinda cool if our posts line up! I'm not sure why so frazzled by Taly's list. I thought I was bopped in the evil category so.. I don't know, lol. I'm new. I wanna go with the flow this game. Sorry if that pings you? I think? I'll try to be more vocal if that's what everyone wants but I just feel like I don't have too much to add. The only thing that's really stood out to me are Texcat and Aneninen going at each other quietly so I prodded that. Otherwise... Everyone else said it better, haha

I DO just wanna say, however : It is so strange to me that everyone is afraid to lynch each other in this first round. Or at least to pick a person, haha. (Oh, gosh, I just got myself lynched, huh?) xD It's okay to take a leap in round 1.The kills will get us more information. Let's get up and go somewhere, not just make tracks in the mud.

[Shadpearl]

Hey, Doom! ~~Sry. Started writing my monster wall post before Doom's was up.~~ xD

[Ausuka]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

You know what, fine. I was trying to condense my posts into one larger post because I thought it would better for the other players. I was clearly wrong since I've already been called "flying under the radar" and now this.

[Ausuka]

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to alignment?

[Ausuka]

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

Yeah and this isn't even all the players he's scumread. Anen is almost certainly town for this. Scum probably doesn't come in townreading the current wagon and then firing shots at everyone else.

[Ausuka]

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

If you want anyone to unvote you, you're gonna have to do a LOT better than this.

[profii]

So I have just reflected on the creature thing. It is notable that rn he has made significantly more posts than anyone else.

Initially a few players picked up on the meta read of inactive-creature = scum!creature, this principle was put on the table by A50

So the people who are involved with creature were:
A50
Lalendra
Sando
KopHerald
Ausuka
ShadPearl

So let's sort these players.

ShadPearl

is probably the easiest, he didn't seem to acknowledge the meta principle as such. I still think this is noob play, rather than malicious. Probably town

Sando

RVS' creature, acknowledges the meta and then picks on Almost50's slighty incongruent push on Creature. I'm ok with this so Sando probably town in this engagement.

KopHerald

,

didn't get involved in the creature debate quite as quickly but post 63 did ping me a bit, if someone is obvscum, I appreciate that we want to maybe try and drive up some associations, however if scum is outed so quickly, they will be very guarded so I think we should prioritise removing scum from the game and then hope the NKA/VCA would provide a bit of help. Saying that, this entire post was caveated with 'if he doesn't get involved' which as I mentioned, has since changed. Brassherald didn't vote but I just felt compelled to include post 63 in this review. It's interesting that KopHerald also said voting wouldn't bring Creature to the fore. I would like to just specifically confirm that given Kop talking to Creature and not voting for him, he is on the trail of 'creature is involved, therefore not obvscum' as per post 63 - I assume I'm right.

Ausuka

says in 74 that Creature is 100% scum, presumably based on this activity meta, but 20 posts later says he is not. Didn't ever place the vote, said it would not be useful to do so. Doesn't seem to suspicious but fairly null

Almost50

- jumped straight in with the meta principle. He hasn't posted that much but despite Creature engaging in the game, hasn't changed his tune much so it's concerning.

Lalendra

pointed out that Creature has been active elsewhere and intends to vote park, then once he posted, flipped to town without giving any quotes just that he Creature was engaged. Kop pointed out the activity point was an error. This seems like someone trying to appear town on an easy meta read. I don't like it.


VOTE: Lalendra

I think Lalendra is try hard'ing to be town.
Almost50 is potentially going down a tunnel which only makes him a policy lynch at the moment which would be silly
I know KopHerald queried my read on ShadPearl but I'm still fairly happy to say it's noob play and not lynch.

[Kopherald]

@profii, I wasn't saying we were going to find associatives with Creature if he was scum. I was saying that there are 3 other scum in the game that we need to find, and can lynch creature if he's going to be obvious based on his meta but still wait long enough to develop reads on other people.

I am also of the opinion that Creature is not Obvscum here. I have been told by several people with far more experience than I that this is his established meta on Mafiascum.

Also, I am also suspicious of Lalendra and have been since I realized she misrepped Creature.

I'm still on TGP though, I think now he's just upset probably because he'll insist I caught him "for the wrong reasons" or whatever scum caught early say.

FOS Lalendra

-Brass

[profii]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

I took the top sentence as, "even if we have caught some very obvious scum play here, we should spend the time we have on game-day1 to do some other scum hunting over the course of the next IRL week (or so) as it may help later"

that might have been through associatives or other scum hunting methods... the ping for me was if Creature is obv scum, why not just plain old rush? I can't think of a reason I would want scum to be in the game longer than necessary.




I think it was probably just miscommunication

[brassherald]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

I took the top sentence as, "even if we have caught some very obvious scum play here, we should spend the time we have on game-day1 to do some other scum hunting over the course of the next IRL week (or so) as it may help later"

that might have been through associatives or other scum hunting methods... the ping for me was if Creature is obv scum, why not just plain old rush? I can't think of a reason I would want scum to be in the game longer than necessary.




I think it was probably just miscommunication

Yeah, we're saying the same thing