Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Almost50]

VOTE: Anen

[jmo16mla]

mutantdevle(3): Aneninen, Gamma, Jay

Looks like a scum counterwagon.

I like this.

[JaydragonKing]

Looks like Creature didn't specify if he thought only one or two of the scum was on it and you just decided to say "yeah all three are scum", Jmo.

[jmo16mla]

I never said all three were scum either, actually...

But since you brought it up, I really wouldn't be superised if at least two out of the three were scum, ONLY because I don't think all three scum wold be on a wagon now.


Aneninen is (was?) The leading wagon for some time, I voted gamma earlier in the game, and finially, my vote is on you now.

Yep, looks good to me.

[mutantdevle]

i didn't even notice pintu voting mutant lol

Honestly, I didn't either. I was confused at first as to why A50 suddenly pounced on Pintu but his logic does make sense by his assumption IMO.

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch? Of course, from your perspective, you'd probably need my flip to confirm that. So, at the very least, my flip would incriminate Pintu fully. But honestly, I don't think we need my flip to see that Pintu is scum.


Btw @Gamma, would you reevaluate your town read on Pintu if I was to flip town?

[Gamma Emerald]

i didn't even notice pintu voting mutant lol

Honestly, I didn't either. I was confused at first as to why A50 suddenly pounced on Pintu but his logic does make sense by his assumption IMO.

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch? Of course, from your perspective, you'd probably need my flip to confirm that. So, at the very least, my flip would incriminate Pintu fully. But honestly, I don't think we need my flip to see that Pintu is scum.


Btw @Gamma, would you reevaluate your town read on Pintu if I was to flip town?

I'm already re-evaluating, but I feel like your town flip would make me consider it less. What will make me reconsider it more is if someone can counter my argument for town!Pintu.

[Almost50]

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch?

I did, and that's why I wanted him lynched over you. You being the vig shot is just to be sure about your alignment, so as to be able to analyze his and your play (voting patterns) after you both flip.

[Gamma Emerald]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

[mutantdevle]

Actually, upon re-reading I no longer find Mutant's recent posts Townie: His vote on Anen really reads as though he's trying to distance himself from a mislynch.

His reasoning for suddenly being happy with his vote when initially he wasn't seems jumbled as well, for example; pointing out that Pin hasn't particularly scumread Anen yet voted him, but that's stripping away the context that people were being encouraged to sheep - which is why Mutant himself reluctantly voted Anen in the first place.

How was my vote on Anen distancing myself from a mislynch? Gamma was definitely not getting lynched at that point. Unless you mean my uncertainty in the vote was forged so I wouldn't be criticised for playing a part in an Anen mislynch?

As for Pintu, I don't think sheeping is acceptable. Ever. Not even when encouraged to and I hate doing it myself. It gives scum a free pass in not having to say their opinion. If you can't give a genuine personal reason as to why you are on a wagon or you are purely piggybacking off of someone else's then, in my eyes, that makes you likely to be scum. If you're going to sheep something like math's plan, then at least say a few words about how you agree with such a plan and why. Don't just walk through a door without a care just because someone is holding it open for you.

[mutantdevle]

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch?

I did, and that's why I wanted him lynched over you. You being the vig shot is just to be sure about your alignment, so as to be able to analyze his and your play (voting patterns) after you both flip.

Fair enough but surely then you'd want to push me to L-1 to see if I'm a PR so that a potential vig shot on me isn't blindly risky?

[mutantdevle]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

In what way? Sudden in that it came together quickly or sudden resistance to it?

[pinturicchio]

I don't really know why I have to say this, but again: I wasn't voting for mutant, I was voting for Aneninen. Could you stop making assumptions that started off from a lie? Just lynch me already, you qill get more info from that than from A50 lying to get his "I KnEW YOu WeRe gOIng TO do ThaT!!1" gimmick

[Almost50]

I believe we should end the day already, and resume our discussion on D2 based on the flips we will have.

P-edit: A PR claim isn't/wasn't what I was after. If Dino wanted a claim from your slot he would have pushed for one.

Anyway, it looks like pintu's the designated Vig shot anyway, so further discussion on this point in unneeded.

[Mathdino]

So let's get more votes on aneninen

Also A50 and NSG could still be scum tbh
That meta I wanted isn't gonna come in a while

I request jail keeper protection on the basis that there's a 1/9 chance I'm vig
And if I am a vig I'll find out tonight and just shoot on n2

[Almost50]

@pintu: Why the hell didn't you draw my attention to the fact you switched from mutant to Anen? That would have solved your problem and mine.

[pinturicchio]

@pintu: Why the hell didn't you draw my attention to the fact you switched from mutant to Anen? That would have solved your problem and mine.

I did. Four times and counting

[mutantdevle]

Wait so Pinu wasn't actually voting for me? lol.

I think this is a lesson to us all to double check things instead of taking them at face value.

[pinturicchio]

The lesson here is that I'm right about not being considered in this game. As A50 said in his first read list, "literally, WHO?"

[Gamma Emerald]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

In what way? Sudden in that it came together quickly or sudden resistance to it?

Both honestly

[JaydragonKing]

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch?

I did, and that's why I wanted him lynched over you. You being the vig shot is just to be sure about your alignment, so as to be able to analyze his and your play (voting patterns) after you both flip.

Fair enough but surely then you'd want to push me to L-1 to see if I'm a PR so that a potential vig shot on me isn't blindly risky?

This tells me already that you aren't a PR by response alone, by the way.

I really think the Vigilante being forced to shoot Pintu even when appearantly some more of us are townreading him is a horrible idea when there are better options as hand.

[Aneninen]

I believe

Math started your wagon -

something about people not pushing your wagon when they could have, meaning you must be scum

. I don't particularly agree with this, but I think you're a good chance to flip scum for my own reasons which I covered in my ISO'ing, which I guess boils down to little content despite some big looking posts, and some dubious reasoning behind your reads. Add to that throwing the toys out of your pram after being wagoned - it's not something that I saw as a Townie reaction.

Pin - NSG started the wagon

with little or no reasoning, from what I can remember

. What generally seemed to spark it was his comment that he didn't want to vote you for fear it might risk Jay, who he's not even townreading. I've personally been very torn on Pin throughout, but now he's claimed VT he's fair game for the vig.

Mutant -

Math/A50 for some reason wanted to start this wagon up, despite already having the two wagons we required. I don't remember much reasoning, other than your reaction seemed town to Math which meant either me or Mutant could be scum

...I've personally been torn on Mutant but his recent posting seems townie.

I've highlighted some parts to show you all: instead of cases there are votes thrown at players. As for some of us, there are a lot of talk

about

us,

at

us, but rarely

with

us. You

did

ask things from me, and I asked whether you wanted answers. I don't think there was a yes for that. (If contrary, point it out, where.) I had a conversation with NSG and Gamma. That's all. All the others are sheeping each others in circles.

I'm constantly ignored. It's strange that even

you

don't remember that it was

me

who started the Mutant-case. Even the VC shows that.

That'swhy I refuse to put effort into this game. Players are voting for me, removing their votes and voting for someone else (with no case provided either), and it's happening even when I don't post anything.
(Okay, to tell the truth, I've been thinking and this situation would be just as annoying if I were scum. So I guess my attitude is not an alignment tell after all.)

However, there's an explanation for this Day1.

I'm giving

one

single example from both players I'm talking about. (I could have chosen many other posts, too.)

Guys, relax, is just a game and I get it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having fun nevertheless; if I weren't, I would've replaced out long ago, after my first readlist. But let's keep things going: I may be dead, but I haven't lost the game as this is a team game, so go on and push another wagon. Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all. Also, I'm following my own reads right now and put my vote on A50, as I'm really tired of his vig softclaims that could justify his lack of content and voting for anyone who's getting pushed without explaining himself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but whatever.
VOTE: Almost50

EXACTLY

what I was looking for!
The vote that was parked there for a long time only to jump off the wagon when it started to build momentum.
@Jay/@Dino: Does this remind you of anything at all??

However, I am now much more confident in Pintu being Scum. I can't tell if he was parked on a partner or is trying to hop off a mislynch wagon.
I say we

lynch Pintu & Vig mutant

(so we know we've hurt scum BEFORE the night phase for sure)
VOTE: pintu

@pintu: i'll listen to your reads if i'm still alive btw

hope you don't fall into the "fuck the community for D1 lynching me" mindset tbh
the first game i played with hyper-experienced players got me D1 lynched for bullshit reasons
sometimes it's more about charisma than anything else, which can be annoying but things get better

Mathdino and Almost50 are simply everywhere, manipulating the whole game, scumreading players regardless of their posts and giving pigeon poop explanations. (Eg. the quoted post from Almost50.)
Those were mere examples.

Just check their ISOs and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also, there's a chance that Mathdino was coaching Pinturicchio in that particular post. But my best guess is that the scumteam is Almost50, Mathdino and Mutantdevle. There's something that underpins this: the whole tunnelling against me started shortly after I started scumreading Mutantdevle. (If I'm wrong about either of them, gun-to-head read would be Jaydragon or Pinturicchio. As for the latter, see above. As for the former, she's the one who seems to sheep either Mathdino or Almost50 all the time.)

Most of the other players are simply following them. (This may be happening because of the overwhelming amount of content from Mathdino, which makes the game hardly readable. But I'm not sure whether it's true.)

At least TRY to remember this post later!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mathdino

I'm willing to return Mutantdevle anytime or vote for Almost50 if he gets wagoned. I may lynch Pinturicchio or Jaydragon if I have to.

[Mathdino]

Wat
What about post 1186 do you seriously think is alignment indicative lol
It's literally "try not to feel too bad"
I'm definitely getting that impression you're not really trying anymore

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually you know what While I still dislike a Pin vig I'm on board with lynching Anen now

[Mathdino]

Not gonna lie, this lynch feels wrong
But I just don't see other viable lynches right now with 3 days on the deadline
I guess A50 could be scum but we're not d1 lynching him
I'm pretty low on townreads :/

[Luca Blight]

@Anen

- my ISO'ing of you was mainly just my opinions of your posts. If you were willing to repond to thoe points then you would have, but I don't see why I should press you for it; it's not as if you're going to agree with my scumread of you.

I was aware your vote was sitting on Mutant, but that seemed pretty inconsequential to the recent wagon that formed on him.