VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Bronya Zaychik]

can anyone with more meta comment on almost50's entry? am i the only one that feels like he's under-contributing than what i'd expect?

Yes.

[Chara]

have you seen scum Almost, Venmar?

[Tibor and Lumia]

Screw it, catch up post off the top of my head, go!

I don't understand how A50 does not have ANY reads as of his last post, and in my limited experiences with him, this seems off. He usually seems confident to me. This is absurd.
VOTE: Almost50

Micc is limited in posting, might be a townlean considering he has good content but I just feel like there's so little.

OTM is trying to gamesolve, he's town.

Venmar is either trolling or just doesn't care about anything. It's odd.

Iceconum feels like he is soft feeling who he can push. I don't like it.

Taly is another case of not having much going on. Like, avoiding doing anything too AI but did claim early.

I know the Kiana/Titus hydra seems like it's pretty okay but I need more for a full read.

Maid Cafe who is someone and Beeboy seems decent, not great.

Chara has said really weird shit, but I don't know it's play style outside of an ongoing game with it right now, may just be a weird thing.

Reasonably Rational seems to be good. They are thinking, they are reasoning, they are sharing with the class from what I recall.

Rest I can't remember having strong feelings either way at this point.

-Tibor

[OnTheMark]

Screw it, catch up post off the top of my head, go!

I don't understand how A50 does not have ANY reads as of his last post, and in my limited experiences with him, this seems off. He usually seems confident to me. This is absurd.
VOTE: Almost50

Micc is limited in posting, might be a townlean considering he has good content but I just feel like there's so little.

OTM is trying to gamesolve, he's town.

Venmar is either trolling or just doesn't care about anything. It's odd.

Iceconum feels like he is soft feeling who he can push. I don't like it.

Taly is another case of not having much going on. Like, avoiding doing anything too AI but did claim early.

I know the Kiana/Titus hydra seems like it's pretty okay but I need more for a full read.

Maid Cafe who is someone and Beeboy seems decent, not great.

Chara has said really weird shit, but I don't know it's play style outside of an ongoing game with it right now, may just be a weird thing.

Reasonably Rational seems to be good. They are thinking, they are reasoning, they are sharing with the class from what I recall.

Rest I can't remember having strong feelings either way at this point.

-Tibor

Yeah I can’t shake the feeling Tibor/Lumia is scum.

Chara would love your opinions

Oh and Titus your VCA gets wrecked I have been moving my vote like a hyperactive kid with too much sugar.

[Venmar]

have you seen scum Almost, Venmar?

i have not. only town almost. thats why i asked.

[Chara]

He is undercontributing but the pattern doesn’t match town him or scum him.

Math is right.

[Chara]

sorry, i meant Mark.

[Chara]

Yeah I can’t shake the feeling Tibor/Lumia is scum.

Chara would love your opinions

i don't like the Almost vote.

Venmar, by contrast, looks for players with Almost meta, while Tibor makes the vote despite limited experience.

though my eyes are also on Skybird and the random/Shiro hydra (the name escapes me) talking about their scumread on me (moreso the latter) but not taking action.

so i don't know if i'm favouring the "holding their vote" side or the "going ahead with scumread a bit too quickly" side. maybe i dislike both.

[Maid Cafe]

I am taking a break from this game mostly today.

~B

[Chara]

i'd love to know whoever took Almost's vote, because if they know him they know how much he hates that. i would like him to prove he doesn't have it, though.

[Chara]

so far; Skybird's scumread on me is my favourite. i didn't think anyone would actually be bold enough to call that a scum gambit, as though i

actually

believed someone would go along with that.

[Maid Cafe]

Is it bad I town read Dunnstral for the timing of his "hi" post?
Because I do and according to Maki that's really stupid

~B

[Reasonably Rational]

FYI it’s public info my main got outed since the micro finished.

I am MathBlade aka Roundabout on MU. I am alting to improve my play on MS and take some MU things that work here and because I wanna have an account separate the more I go on a life journey. Since it’s public knowledge on MU I don’t think it’s fair not to announce it here but I was hoping that micro would last a bit longer damn.

Hi!

It turns out that I do recognize your name! But I don't know you personally! And neither you do, for me. So, it won't affect my ability to sort you as a "null entity"

Incidentally, before your main was revealed, I had to ask Titus to try to ID you because I wanted to know how strong you were, and if you were as powerful as you claimed; Titus plays on MU and DLP as well, so I figured she would be helpful with this. But, then, with some clues, I managed to guess that your identity anyway! Titus was still being mean and told me "I cannot confirm or deny" when I asked her if I was right... hmph!!

~Kiana

Interesting? I don’t alt hunt but I feel I need to acknowledge some of this. I don’t know who you are and won’t try to solve that.

However I didn’t claim to be powerful. I claimed to be good on MU and horrible here. There is a distinction. I was hoping Titus didn’t recognize me. Lovely.

Assuming I am not a valid answer who would you give a puppy to(neighbor) and who would you give a defense dog to (pgo) and who would you give a show dog (named useless dog) to?

Aka neighborize,pgo, named useless?

Math dearest, why would you think Titus couldn't recognize you when she already displayed her ability to figure out who you are in FFT?

I think I have to post my rebuttal now because it brings up shit that YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ME and were trying to push me about.

Sec.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A less than eloquent response to OTM's earlier case against me, but it contains the major problems with the case and the assumptions made therein. I think Drixx will be mad at me for posting this, because he's firmly of the opinion that responding to anyone's poorly executed push simply gives it legitimacy, but I think people should be aware of the fact that OTM definitely has experience with me(including my solo scum game, played as a partner to me), and is still trying to say things they know are NAI about me are actually meaningful.

I wonder who has a pregame ability to utilize in these 24 hours, and what will happen when it comes about?

Current guess is scum influence on which plane we'll be in each phase.

-Cerb

Hi town. How you doing?

I guess that line of questioning is silly and will lead us down a path of ruin.

I'm fantastic, thank you for asking! Trying to get synced up with my other head, and taking a bit of a break from work because I've been focusing on the work shiz all day. ^^ How are you doing?

And yes, it might not lead us down a path of ruin, but I'd rather not go there. Mastin is smart, if she didn't actually claim the whole thing and she's town, then not claiming it is probably a reasonable option. If she's scum, then whatever they claim will be perfectly reasonable, just like their refusal to claim will be at this point. Besides, there are other details about that whole situation that make it a lot more helpful to not push them on it.

@Chara: I'm sad that you're a miller, and happy that you're a miller. Sad because now I need to be paranoid all game, happy because if I can get past my paranoia, I get to know you're on my side!

@Maid Cafe: Noted. Not going to be giving you anything, but, good to know.
-Cerb

I find it odd here, that Cerb's thoughts here directly contradict my thoughts in post 96 among others. However when I asked him for something he disagreed with he said, in post 392 nothing. This is one of the things that makes me worry. Cerb generally doesn't "mind meld" for lack of a better word this early and I was supremely scared.Drixx, while being offline, tends to favor the "case" type of arguments, and lots of data and endpoints. The fact Cerb decided to not really think about it long and then blow off the question seems odd. It's more like a "I don't give a shit to answer this." That's not really how I expect someone who town reads another to disregard what they are saying. The Titus/Kiana question was more an after thought but I was mainly trying to get a feel for Cerb. (And yes I'm calling the slot Cerb until Drixx pops in. Deal.)

Cerb has also tried to spend most of pregame and D1 towards a mechanics based play style instead of a reads based one from his opening.

If you recall the entirety of my ISO(as you should, given that you drew from posts throughout it), I specifically say(REPEATEDLY, EVEN), that Mastin generally doesn't lie, and agree with what you said in 96. In addition, this post in no way contradicts your thoughts there. Your 96 says mastina keeps her options open and she doesn't pigeonhole herself. With regards to 392...I again, specifically said that there was nothing major that came to mind(and if there had been, I would have already mentioned it). It was pretty clear from my post that I couldn't be bothered to reread your ISO to assuage your concerns, concerns which I had already sussed out and thus stated in 392. IN addition, throughout this post you make statements indicating a high degree of familiarity with my, and Drixx's, playstyles...and then you end this portion by stating that I have a mechanics, rather than reads, based playstyle early game.

No fucking shit. Pretty sure LITERALLY everyone here who's played with me before knows that. Why don't you?

Anyways, point is: The contradictions you're pointing out don't exist, I obviously didn't care about responding to your post because I knew why you wanted to know(which means scum!me, if he cared, could easily go through your ISO and find any disagreements that might exist in order to continue "buddying" you), and my early game play is exactly what you stated, and should come as no surprise to anyone who knows me. Why make a point of that?

it's the first time i've heard of the theory, pretty null on it, more interested in the reactions to it. i honestly thinks it's kind of silly and we should just lynch productively and naturally to what the gamestate demands, but it's not like i haven't seen wackier theories have some merit.

Interesting. Why did you try to form a wagon on yourself if you think wagons should form naturally?

Seconded.

Also, that whole theory thing is, as someone else said, simply something to keep in mind when town lynches scum D1, not a reason to deliberately try to lynch town.

Also also another thing, but I wanna wait and see what everybody else has to say before I bring it up. <3

-cerb

Now notice that Cerb specifically mentions that he agrees with my point on wagons forming naturally. He says a minor contradiction in which he says games should always be solved from a role POV. That's not always the case. If a role provides evidence, e.g. you KNOW someone did something, that is mod confirmed obviously don't ignore it. Similarly if someone says they did something, then that gets taken into account. However, the point about role POV directly goes counter to this being a Varsoon game. Take for example Steven's Universe. That game was specifically solved through the power of a town block and THEN actions. Not ACTIONS then town block.

YOu're misrepresenting me. I stated that games should always be solved from a role USAGE POV. There's a significant difference between saying "x is scum because y is a scum role" and saying "x is scum because x used y in a manner which only benefited scum". With that being said, NOTHING about what I said should lead anyone to believe that I think the ONLY way to solve games is via roles, merely that role usage is ALWAYS a useful piece of information to have.

I don't really think we should try and solve this game from a role/role usage POV, especially day 1.

~B

You can always try to solve a game from a role usage POV. Not necessarily from the role alone though, so you're half right.

-Cerb

Notice here it's a "disagreement" without teeth behind it. It's like "you're half right" but he doesn't actively discourage or dissuade the parts he finds wrong. In fact, Cerb has been rather quiet in terms of that, just sort of floating. I haven't seen Cerb actually take a stance for something he believes in. Players with far fewer posts have left a stronger imprint on the game. Drixx's being MIA while that annoys me is typical for his personality/work life balance. Lumia gave a reason so I'll back off for now on them, but I want to see some townie content before D1 is up from the slot.

This is, once again, something you should be aware of if you're attempting to claim any sort of perspective on what is and isn't out of the order for me. I DON'T make strong stands on anything outside of theory and basic shit like don't claim stupid shit, and claim all NU D1, until I've gathered substantive evidence to support a position.

I'm also considering asking everyone to just vote for themselves until a VC happens to see if we can identify who the thief is, but...alignments were rolled after roles were made, so that won't be useful since the decision was made pretty early.

Oh, also: A50, when was your vote stolen? Midday, at day start? Were you told anything about the source of the vote steal? Like if it was a card used by someone?

-Cerb

Now this is where one contradiction is a potential fuckup, a second is shame on you. Earlier, Cerb agreed with wagons forming naturally. Now Cerb is arguing for the destruction of current wagons in that everyone votes for themselves. Not only does this NOT address the core problem of people missing votes, it hides the voting pattern, and goes strictly against the mechanics post Cerb agreed with me on. He can't both agree and disagree with himself can he? If other players are missing votes (I have not received such a PM) then that would come up in a VC or if A50 is telling the truth the players inbox. The only thing hunting for a vote stealer does is create chaos and distract from hunting scum.

Mainly the buddied feeling hasn't gone away where it actually has with Titus/Kiana which is a nice bonus.

Note that in my post I specifically say that we should move our votes TO OURSELVES until the next VC. That means that if you're looking at vote movements, you'd clearly be able to see that a bunch of people were voting for themselves, and you can therefore easily discount that time frame as time when they're not voting, or time when their vote remains on the previous individual.You're also ignoring the fact that I fucking say WHY it wouldn't be helpful. I express the thing that we could do to accomplish a goal/gain one more piece of data, as well as expressing why that data isn't as helpful as it might be in other games.


There's also a very significant difference between people voting Venmar throughout the day to keep him as the second wagon, and thus ruining the entire days set of VC's, and people self-voting/removing their votes effectively for a few pages.

I miss A50 too. I also agree that natural forming wagons are more important than whatever venmar can do, particular this early in the game.

-Cerb

This is kinda the nail I think in the coffin. With Cerb agreeing with me with a lack of mechanics focus (or rather more accurately flip flopping) whatever Venmar is claiming to do Cerb seems to be frightened of or scared of. He wants natural wagons over Venmar's ability and a then to remove those wagons because a vote stealer exists, despite the effect that comes from the player voting anyone receives the same results.

I'm pretty sure Cerb is buddying scum here, and those townreading RR I would love to have opinions from.

Although I lost my dare. Damn it.

See the previous bit.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, OTM, where's the fucking follow-up? You case me because of a bunch of bullshit that seems to be fundamentally based on your inability to determine where I stand on things, I offer to answer questions about those things, you ask them, I respond, and then...what? Am I no longer worth talking to? Did my response satisfy you? Do you have any more questions? Or were you just pushing with no fucking conviction?

All of the above is not to say that I think OTM is scum, however, their play is questionable so far with regards to my slot at least
-Cerb

[Maid Cafe]

I also have this weird issue.
I should be town reading Titus but i am not.

~B

[Reasonably Rational]

I also have this weird issue.
I should be town reading Titus but i am not.

~B

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

[Bronya Zaychik]

Mark, Please let this go. I don't want a devolve theory discussion.

Feel free to comeback later or cop them if you need to.

If you don't lynch RR today, they still lead to buddy lynches if scum. I also really don't want them to be scum as I really want a game where we work together.

~Titus

[Bronya Zaychik]

I also have this weird issue.
I should be town reading Titus but i am not.

~B

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

To be clear, your position is no one should be able to read me town or scum?

I am here now. Let's dance?

[Reasonably Rational]

Mark, Please let this go. I don't want a devolve theory discussion.

Feel free to comeback later or cop them if you need to.

If you don't lynch RR today, they still lead to buddy lynches if scum. I also really don't want them to be scum as I really want a game where we work together.

~Titus

I think OTM already let it go when they saw nobody was actually buying into their case. As I said, I would have just let it lie myself but there are parts of that push that don't make sense for someone as familiar with me as they are to make.

In other news.

How are you Titus? I haven't talked to you in forever. Your bday was yesterday ya, on Pi Day? Or was that the other head? How was it?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I also have this weird issue.
I should be town reading Titus but i am not.

~B

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

To be clear, your position is no one should be able to read me town or scum?

I am here now. Let's dance?

How shall we dance? Actually, more importantly, what shall we dance to? <3

My position is that I care more about sorting B than you so I want him to answer my question with less interference. <3

-Cerb

[Maid Cafe]

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

I can normally get some kind of read on Titus by now is mainly what I was saying.
It isn't really an issue with her posts and if it was I am not sure if it would actually indicate her alignment.

~B

[Reasonably Rational]

(Not overall, just at this moment! I'm pretty sure I'm like 100% on you in games we've played together, with the only notable exception being SD2, where only what I consider an error in the way a mechanic was presented led me to erroneously conclude that you had to be lying due to a contradiction between a statement you made and what the moderator said, so I'm not super concerned about getting you right like right away.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

I can normally get some kind of read on Titus by now is mainly what I was saying.
It isn't really an issue with her posts and if it was I am not sure if it would actually indicate her alignment.

~B

Ah. So you don't have *any* read on Titus at this stage, not a scumread on her, and normally you know one way or another early in the first day of a game?

Have there been any other games with her where you were this ignorant at this stage?

-Cerb

[Maid Cafe]

VOTE: Micc

~B