VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Bronya Zaychik]

I don't think a readwall is hard it's just time consuming. But I think it would be much more productive if you put that time to making a readwall for Titus instead of a haphazard Skybird push, it takes the same amount of time but one has more benefits than the other.

Code: Select all

(PlayerName): I think (PlayerName) is Town/Scum/Null. This is because (Reason A)... and this can be seen from (Evidence A). (Reason A) is alignment indicative of Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda A) Also, (Reason B), which can be seen from (Evidence B). This makes (PlayerName) even more likely to be Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda B).

Rinse and repeat for all 17 players in the game and you got yourself a readwall. Probably would take less time than arguing to Titus about Skybird. But will make you so much more of an asset to town.

~Kiana

[Dunnstral]

Pretty sure the reason is more likely to make it seem you are useful and scumhunting and giving reads but actually you're scum and just put the names of all the people you know are town, including Dunnstral.

I think the timing of the post always comes from town.
Dunnstral is actually a very self aware and good at scum and wouldn't just open the game like that as scum, he would always open the game and do something. Like I can pull games but I fact checked my meta just to be safe, Dunnstral just wouldn't open the game doing fuck all like that, his openings are actually decent as scum.

His post of "hi" literally made me think he was town because if he was scum he'd do anything else. And it's not like that's a line of play that Dunnstral would ever consider faking for town cred either.

I don't need a case, read or a push to determine that someone is town. Mafia has more dynamics than just that.

~B

ok I buy this

[OnTheMark]

Titus called for SoS.

SoS stands for what?[/i]

Mark you are doing an extraordinary thing by making Titus frustrated, this is really unusual I think you need to take a step back for a moment.

Titus being frustrated is not unusual by any means. She gets frustrated any time someone doesn't bend to her will and wants. She uses insults and other things to try to get her way and it's quite frankly bullshit. This happens with relatively minor RL things. Titus being frustrated and using emotional manipulation is par for the goddamn course. She needs to either calm down and try to explain points or just walk away and stop the conversation. She needs to state what she needs clearly and stop being antagonizing (e.g. NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU SUCK {paraphrase}) The antagonizing is what does more damage than anything. I'm working together with multiple people providing what they ask because they ask in a clear way. Hell she freaks out over board games sometimes like it's the end of the world. She's cried her eyes out as scum to the point where she has tears coming down her cheeks in order to win a game. This is a game. If she's getting this worked up over a game then she needs to step away. As much as this may sound like a cold hearted thing to say, emotional pleas like this to me hold no sway, especially when she keeps poking the beast and I've been thoroughly content to leave it alone.

I understand that you are trying your best to work with her but it just comes across to me that you just aren't understanding what is needed of you.

I agree with this. I give Cerb what he wants when he made a request.

Titus is absolutely correct the PbPA against Skybird making for an extremely unconvincing case, you simply paint every action of Skybird's ISO as scummy even though most, if not all, of the evidence presented is NAI.

That's not how this works. You don't just take a case and relabel it PbPA. A PbPa is notably different. It goes post by post and says "Player A did this as scum with the express purpose of inflamming Player B town then had a scum goal of player A". A premise: Skybird has no opinions, supported with specific posts Skybird has no opinions is NOT a PbPA by any means. It doesn't go post by post trying to convince you of scum motivation, it's a case with evidence associated. It's up to YOU to state WHY it's NAI to you instead of just dismissing it outright.

Take a look at Alisae's case for tips on what is expected of you.

Fine I will reformat my Skybird case into that format using each of Alisae's sections

I see the exact same patterns in what you're doing as what RC would do to ruin games and become scum MVP.

Do NOT compare me and RC as scum. What we do is notably different from each other. In a scum game, I rely on a thread lynching itself. Scum is remarkably easy on MS because all I have to do is wait for bad as fuck points and agree with them. You sell people what they want as scum. As town, it's notably different. I don't sell people what they want, I point out what I think we NEED.

Fortunately you don't even have half the toxicity that he has, but the aspect of stubbornness is still there and I need to nip this in the bud early before it becomes a big problem for town.

I am working on being less stubborn and was doing my MU way of doing things which involves poking everyone. Then Titus said to push someone, Skybird, and I am. Now I am stubborn, because it isn't someone you agree with? You or Titus have yet to interact in a meaningful with what I present, just continually discarding it.

One major problem is the rush to find associatives which I believe is really dumb on Day 1 because it results in absurd conclusions that effectively amount of "______ who defends Skybird is scum."

I HATE this strawman, and it's not what I do. Not everyone who defends Skybird is scum. Those without a townie motivation or without reason deserve further investigation. That's not dependent on the slots alignment. If I said you were town without reasons, I would then be deserving of further scrutiny. It's not dependent upon Skybird's alignment. It depends on the motivation brought to the table. And when I've been victorious as town it's ALWAYS been through associatives. You'll never get me to quit doing that. Ever. You have your playstyle I have mine.

where the name of the person in the blank keeps changing which is obviously wrong. You have begun to call RR and me scum for defending Skybird or not agreeing with your push which is frankly absurd and ridiculous, please take a moment to breathe and realize how far you are derp in the tunnel.

Again, I have called you scum, I'm assessing your reactions to it. I don't see a town motivation to ignore the piles of evidence Skybird is scum and then call me derp tunneling without any sort of town case to back that up. When I see all sorts of things that point to Skybird scum that everyone ignores and you're trying to push under the rug, what am I supposed to think. To borrow from SU2 when Titus interacted with me with my failed push on the masons, and the more you don't provide reasons, and the more you refuse to interact with what I'm saying and post an entire wall that boils down to "Don't listen to Mark he can't communicate" I can and have no problems if someone votes you to policy lynch your slot so the game continues without your insults and slander.

Titus wants you to take a step back and listen.

I am waiting for a fucking reason besides "gut" to hear. I'm listening even with the insults much as I'd rather just policy or if I had a vig, vig your slot and be done with it.

You are almost going to the point of rambling and it is not something that the so-called court of public opinion will likely hold in your favour, they will be turned off. Again as Titus warned you do not want this to happen.

Titus's opinions without reasons hold absolutely no weight with me.

~Kiana

[OnTheMark]

Titus called for SoS.

SoS stands for what?

Mark you are doing an extraordinary thing by making Titus frustrated, this is really unusual I think you need to take a step back for a moment.

Titus being frustrated is not unusual by any means. She gets frustrated any time someone doesn't bend to her will and wants. She uses insults and other things to try to get her way and it's quite frankly bullshit. This happens with relatively minor RL things. Titus being frustrated and using emotional manipulation is par for the goddamn course. She needs to either calm down and try to explain points or just walk away and stop the conversation. She needs to state what she needs clearly and stop being antagonizing (e.g. NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU SUCK {paraphrase}) The antagonizing is what does more damage than anything. I'm working together with multiple people providing what they ask because they ask in a clear way. Hell she freaks out over board games sometimes like it's the end of the world. She's cried her eyes out as scum to the point where she has tears coming down her cheeks in order to win a game. This is a game. If she's getting this worked up over a game then she needs to step away. As much as this may sound like a cold hearted thing to say, emotional pleas like this to me hold no sway, especially when she keeps poking the beast and I've been thoroughly content to leave it alone.

I understand that you are trying your best to work with her but it just comes across to me that you just aren't understanding what is needed of you.

I agree with this. I give Cerb what he wants when he made a request.

Titus is absolutely correct the PbPA against Skybird making for an extremely unconvincing case, you simply paint every action of Skybird's ISO as scummy even though most, if not all, of the evidence presented is NAI.

That's not how this works. You don't just take a case and relabel it PbPA. A PbPa is notably different. It goes post by post and says "Player A did this as scum with the express purpose of inflamming Player B town then had a scum goal of player A". A premise: Skybird has no opinions, supported with specific posts Skybird has no opinions is NOT a PbPA by any means. It doesn't go post by post trying to convince you of scum motivation, it's a case with evidence associated. It's up to YOU to state WHY it's NAI to you instead of just dismissing it outright.

Take a look at Alisae's case for tips on what is expected of you.

Fine I will reformat my Skybird case into that format using each of Alisae's sections

I see the exact same patterns in what you're doing as what RC would do to ruin games and become scum MVP.

Do NOT compare me and RC as scum. What we do is notably different from each other. In a scum game, I rely on a thread lynching itself. Scum is remarkably easy on MS because all I have to do is wait for bad as fuck points and agree with them. You sell people what they want as scum. As town, it's notably different. I don't sell people what they want, I point out what I think we NEED.

Fortunately you don't even have half the toxicity that he has, but the aspect of stubbornness is still there and I need to nip this in the bud early before it becomes a big problem for town.

I am working on being less stubborn and was doing my MU way of doing things which involves poking everyone. Then Titus said to push someone, Skybird, and I am. Now I am stubborn, because it isn't someone you agree with? You or Titus have yet to interact in a meaningful with what I present, just continually discarding it.

One major problem is the rush to find associatives which I believe is really dumb on Day 1 because it results in absurd conclusions that effectively amount of "______ who defends Skybird is scum."

I HATE this strawman, and it's not what I do. Not everyone who defends Skybird is scum. Those without a townie motivation or without reason deserve further investigation. That's not dependent on the slots alignment. If I said you were town without reasons, I would then be deserving of further scrutiny. It's not dependent upon Skybird's alignment. It depends on the motivation brought to the table. And when I've been victorious as town it's ALWAYS been through associatives. You'll never get me to quit doing that. Ever. You have your playstyle I have mine.

where the name of the person in the blank keeps changing which is obviously wrong. You have begun to call RR and me scum for defending Skybird or not agreeing with your push which is frankly absurd and ridiculous, please take a moment to breathe and realize how far you are derp in the tunnel.

Again, I have called you scum, I'm assessing your reactions to it. I don't see a town motivation to ignore the piles of evidence Skybird is scum and then call me derp tunneling without any sort of town case to back that up. When I see all sorts of things that point to Skybird scum that everyone ignores and you're trying to push under the rug, what am I supposed to think. To borrow from SU2 when Titus interacted with me with my failed push on the masons, and the more you don't provide reasons, and the more you refuse to interact with what I'm saying and post an entire wall that boils down to "Don't listen to Mark he can't communicate" I can and have no problems if someone votes you to policy lynch your slot so the game continues without your insults and slander.

Titus wants you to take a step back and listen.

I am waiting for a fucking reason besides "gut" to hear. I'm listening even with the insults much as I'd rather just policy or if I had a vig, vig your slot and be done with it.

You are almost going to the point of rambling and it is not something that the so-called court of public opinion will likely hold in your favour, they will be turned off. Again as Titus warned you do not want this to happen.

Titus's opinions without reasons hold absolutely no weight with me.

~Kiana

pedit fixed tag see underlined.

[Bronya Zaychik]

Calling me a crybaby is an insult Mark.

I can't understand your points on Skybird. So I can't engage them. You can either do what I asked and make it followable or be ignored. I can't magically understand nonsense.

Now you're threatening to kill us over a simple request to give two-three sentences over each player. :/

[OnTheMark]

I don't think a readwall is hard it's just time consuming. But I think it would be much more productive if you put that time to making a readwall for Titus instead of a haphazard Skybird push, it takes the same amount of time but one has more benefits than the other.

Code: Select all

(PlayerName): I think (PlayerName) is Town/Scum/Null. This is because (Reason A)... and this can be seen from (Evidence A). (Reason A) is alignment indicative of Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda A) Also, (Reason B), which can be seen from (Evidence B). This makes (PlayerName) even more likely to be Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda B).

Rinse and repeat for all 17 players in the game and you got yourself a readwall. Probably would take less time than arguing to Titus about Skybird. But will make you so much more of an asset to town.

~Kiana

The above picture is what I do IN MY HEAD. I can't just put it into a sound byte for you or Titus. That's not how I function. I will redo my case in Alisae format because that's something I CAN do.

But until flips emerge figuring out WHICH world it is is nigh on impossible. Sky is scum in almost all of them and I see no town motivation for any of her posts. Until someone counters what I've argued I see no reason to change my mind. And just because I don't change my mind because Titus asks doesn't mean I'm not listening.

[OnTheMark]

Calling me a crybaby is an insult Mark.

I can't understand your points on Skybird. So I can't engage them. You can either do what I asked and make it followable or be ignored. I can't magically understand nonsense.

Now you're threatening to kill us over a simple request to give two-three sentences over each player. :/

When the rest of the game understands it and you don't you're just spamming I'm done talking with you. I'll redo the case in Alisae format because I promised but I'm not spending literally my entire Saturday on this with you or arguing for pages. I'm just done.

[Reasonably Rational]

One thing OTM.

I agree with the parts of your post which I specifically questioned Skybird on. Nothing else. Those parts are the parts which I view as being an actual case.

Bronya: Look at the specific points that I asked Skybird about in their case. Tell me if you see the same absence of conviction behind their hunting in those instances that I do, as evidenced by their lack of follow up or consistency.

-Cerb

[Bronya Zaychik]

I don't think a readwall is hard it's just time consuming. But I think it would be much more productive if you put that time to making a readwall for Titus instead of a haphazard Skybird push, it takes the same amount of time but one has more benefits than the other.

Code: Select all

(PlayerName): I think (PlayerName) is Town/Scum/Null. This is because (Reason A)... and this can be seen from (Evidence A). (Reason A) is alignment indicative of Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda A) Also, (Reason B), which can be seen from (Evidence B). This makes (PlayerName) even more likely to be Town/Scum because (Town/Scum Agenda B).

Rinse and repeat for all 17 players in the game and you got yourself a readwall. Probably would take less time than arguing to Titus about Skybird. But will make you so much more of an asset to town.

~Kiana

The above picture is what I do IN MY HEAD. I can't just put it into a sound byte for you or Titus. That's not how I function. I will redo my case in Alisae format because that's something I CAN do.

But until flips emerge figuring out WHICH world it is is nigh on impossible. Sky is scum in almost all of them and I see no town motivation for any of her posts. Until someone counters what I've argued I see no reason to change my mind. And just because I don't change my mind because Titus asks doesn't mean I'm not listening.

I'm not asking you to change your mind. I'm asking you to clarify your points so I can determine if I want you to do that or not.

What you have there is a collection of what I presume are post numbers and relationships. If you step back and filter you can get further. I respect your ability to think rapidly but no one understands your PbPA and your refusal to clarify is really anti-town at best. No one csn follow points that require 7 pages at once.

If you refuse to clarify, then you should just realize that you'll be tuned out and we can agree that no one will listen to you. Can't say I never tried.

[Bronya Zaychik]

One thing OTM.

I agree with the parts of your post which I specifically questioned Skybird on. Nothing else. Those parts are the parts which I view as being an actual case.

Bronya: Look at the specific points that I asked Skybird about in their case. Tell me if you see the same absence of conviction behind their hunting in those instances that I do, as evidenced by their lack of follow up or consistency.

-Cerb

Rephrase what they say?

[Reasonably Rational]

Notice how here in 243 Skybird doesn't actually follow up. She asks a question then doesn't ask another question to sort the slot or do anything with it. It's more like just noise. This 'inactivity'/'inopinion'/'no stances' will be a common theme.

In post 260 Skybird again asks another inactive question, seemingly trying to encourage people to get into the issues that beeboy and I were having earlier without actually investing anything in there. She feels like one of us is scum but doesn't actually follow it up in any sort of way. It looks like it's more designed to try egg people into the Beeboy/me discussion.
In 323 Skybird sarcastically comments that she has the worst post in

the game, but then doesn't do a damn thing to hunt or otherwise. The closest thing towards a read from Skybird is a guess, but she has shown no interest in exploring it or anything. Between this and the inactivity, I wanted to see Skybird develop the read.

In 364 they finally justify a read and it's for updating a signature line upon request. About the most null of things as one can get. Now while I understand one CAN townread someone for very little (e.g. what I mentioned before) I'd want something else to complement that person's ISO. In other words, the townread of Dunnstral is accompanied with a lot of other things to read the slot. In this case Skybird has nothing.

381 has very little in terms of hunting. Again, Skybird comes out votes blazing. This time Skybird attacks Venmar for wanting powers. However she

doesn't

attack On the Maid for the same thing, despite the prior scumread of Maid. If anything this wouldn't cause them to change votes to Venmar but would strengthen their case on Maid. The switch here reads as very inauthentic.

471 Steps back the ONE authentic read saying it's not really AI but it's gut. In other words, you caught me fabricating a reason for my read so I'm going to say gut.

513 is an attack on Venmar that again she doesn't follow up on.

669 backs out of her read of one of me and Maid being scum saying that we both might be.

689 Then goes back to "Oh yeah there was something bad in that argument" simply based on being asked what her position is on me. Her position on me or any other slot shouldn't end with a vote on Maid Cafe. If she was genuinely pushing Maid she'd be like putting effort in. Right now Skybird is pretty empty.

780 Reasons Reasons Reasons

1059 What's really bad about the post that Skybird cited is that it potentially outs a vig if we have one. This is barely the semblance of a case, then again I know where she stands on literallly NO one else.

1230 Pleads for me to push MC if she's town. If she's town I'd consider it but it's surely not on anything Sky has done.

Find me an opinion on anyone other than MC in her entire ISO that she hasn't backed away from and she still has even backed away from that. IMHO her ISO is worse than Dunnstral's and Dunnstral only has two letters. Now let's contrast this to a town game....

The bolded parts. I agree with you about the rest being NAI/not conclusions I agree with.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

In 323 Skybird sarcastically comments that she has the worst post in the game, but then doesn't do a damn thing to hunt or otherwise. The closest thing towards a read from Skybird is a guess, but she has shown no interest in exploring it or anything. Between this and the inactivity, I wanted to see Skybird develop the read.

^

Ignore that part, it shouldn't have been bolded.

Also ignore the part's where OTM ascribes certain motivations to the actions that make them look scummier. Just focus on the fact that on those occasions, skybird made pushes without following them up, asked questions without doing anything to show us the answers mattered to her, and placed votes preferentially between slots with similar reasons to be voted, without indicating why they preferred one over the other.
-Cerb

[Bronya Zaychik]

I'd file away 381 but that's nothing AI yet. Poking and prodding others is a valid tool. The thread moves too fast for much followup.

Mark complaining about lack of follow through just shows hyprocrisy.

It's D1. Everyone is poke and observe.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'd file away 381 but that's nothing AI yet. Poking and prodding others is a valid tool. The thread moves too fast for much followup.

Mark complaining about lack of follow through just shows hyprocrisy.

It's D1. Everyone is poke and observe.

No. Dismissing a valid point Mark makes simply because they don't do it themselves does not reduce the validity of the point.

I follow up on just about everything. Pretend I made that point, so you can ignore the hypocrisy.

Does your argument simply become that the thread moves too fast to remember what you were interested in the last time you came to the thread?

Does that mean that on D1 everybody gets to just ask questions and get ignored and it's okay that the other person ignored them? Or get answered and then ignore the answer and that's okay too?

-Cerb

[OnTheMark]

Welcome to Alisae's Professional Guide

repurposed by MathBlade for Kiana

on How to PROPERLY Play Wolf

Thank you

Micc

Skybird for being a wonderful

test dummy

second case!

---

With this professional guide, I will teach you how to play Wolf properly in Project

M

afia! Let's get started!

　　　　　　　　　

Step 1: Attempting to dismantle townblocs at any chance possible.

Are you scum worried about town townblocing itself without you in it

or two strong town working together

?

All you have to do is just make is enhance a discussion that's going on with those two players without actually having a strong enough opinion yourself.

Source: viewtopic.php?p=10020002#p10020002




　　　　　　　　　

Step 2: Picking Out your mislynch

To win as scum you have to lynch town. Mafia is a game where townies lynch

townies

wolves and wolves lynch

wolves

townies.
So you have to pick your mislynches in a way that helps achieve this goal.
And what better way to do this then to pick two townies who are fighting that you want gone. It's a twofer!

Source: viewtopic.php?p=10020002#p10020002

Blatant inaction of her beliefs later is a huge plus.

　　　　　　　　　

Step 3: Forming a Case

However, you can't push a mislynch if you don't have any thing to justify your push off of.
After all, when you push a "fact" you can then fall back on the justification you built up as a scapegoat.
Also pushing "facts" allows you to present good

IRONCLAD

reasoning.
Who cares about being right? You're a wolf!
You don't need to push reads!
Reads =/ Facts.

Luckily, you can use claims as shown here:
viewtopic.php?p=10021837#p10021837



As a good basis to push someone.
Especially if you are scared of that role and you want it gone as fast as possible

and you have no idea what the role does

.
Who needs waiting for the night to come, why not just lynch it!

Keep in mind that when you are forming your case, you have to twist the narative to not consider any town motivation.
Also, make sure the read is presented as a strong confident read, because people like to sheep those!
These things are done perfectly well in 381:

You CAN attempt to stand it from a town PoV.
But you don't need to do that, you're a wolf after all!
Your job is to push mislynches!

　　　　　　　　　

Step 4: Pushing the lynch

Once you picked out your mislynch, you must attempt to turn everything they stated into something that is scummy!
Because you are a wolf, you can get away with having as many unorganic, unnatural, and agenda based reads as possible!
This is perfectly done here:

1059 was terrible IMO. The idea that because MC's mana generation method seems complicated is not based on anything MC is doing in thread, but is more towards not understanding how the mana claim works so she can manipulate it. She doesn't actually say anything towards with Beeboy is doing is scummy. Wanting to give an open ended question like that also makes other people more likely to talk about their mana claims and abilities as well. I'm kinda proud of some people for not going "Yeah, I think that's right because I generate mana simply or That sucks because mine requires climbing up Mount Everest three times then walking through the pits of hell". Skybird is also showing uncertainty about Chara’s sarcasm and deciding to

assume meaning

reread instead of seeking clarification.

Also when you are pushing your reads, you have to give as LITTLE to No content possible on anything else.
This is because attempting to fabricate reads and having to stick to them will come back to bite you when people analyze your PROGRESSION.
But when you DO form reads, make sure to shade as many people as possible as seen here

OR just not provide any reasons and just spam the same person over and over again

:

Just see all of Skybird's ISO for pretty much non stop tunnelling on Maid Cafe, yet Titus/Kiana don't read as a derp tunnel despite Skybird having like no reasons hooray!

　　　　　　　　　

Step 5: Faking your Scumhunting

As a wolf, you have to look like you are scumhunting. To do this, you push mislynches, but occasionally you have to ask questions.
How do we counter such a boring habbit?
There are two methods!

The first method is to not care about the question.
If you ask random questions and hope that people will think they are "good questions" and have 0 interest in the question, you will look like you are scumhunting. This is seen here:

280 asks about MC and then only cares if I believe it, much later. Not the thread.

The second method is to not care about the answer!
For example, if you are going to ask a quesiton, and the questionee provides an answer, make sure to discredit and/or scumread the answer to that question as much as possible.
As long as you have a response already made to the questionee's answer, then you are good to go. Just use that response no matter what answer they provide.

Or just never do anything about it and go back to actively lurking. Example incoming

Asking if a Varsoon post is available then never following it up, then with an AtE appeal of "oh don't mislynch me" rather than actually trying to see if MC was confirmed scum. If a townread player made a scumslip that's something I'd genuinely look at. However when Cerb and Skybird both don't follow up it's rather weird.

This is a great example the many times Skybird hasn't had opinion or hasn't followed through on jackshit.

　　　　　　　　　

Conclusion

Thank you for reading

my

Alisae's repurposed guide on how to play Wolf in Project

M

afia!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!1!11!!1
11!!1
!1
!!!!!!!11!!!1
11!1

[OnTheMark]

(P.S. Alisae while this may sound like a parody I AM taking your Micc case under consideration too) (I just figured Kiana can't say "I'm not doing a case" when I use like 90% of your words lol)

[Reasonably Rational]

For the record, I can't take a case in that format seriously, and I won't consider either of them.

*shrug*

They made me chuckle, and that's it.

Apparently Kiana likes it though.

-Cerb

[Maid Cafe]

I'll share my Micc case eventually.

~B

[OnTheMark]

For the record, I can't take a case in that format seriously, and I won't consider either of them.

*shrug*

They made me chuckle, and that's it.

Apparently Kiana likes it though.

-Cerb

And that's the core of the issue. You want it presented as premises and points and with specific post numbers
Kiana wants how the person's not being townie in a more narrative/how to format
Some people want rapid fire posting that they can instantly read as genuine.

Until we all learn to work outside what we're comfortable with we can't truly cooperate. The more hoops that people have to jump through to be listened to the more spam that gets created in thread the more people tune out. Instead work with the cards people bring to the table rather than demanding everyone bring what you want.

[Bronya Zaychik]

My argument is that there's too much stuff for anyone to follow up on. That's why we vote and wagon as a group. I can't follow up on every logical inconsistency. It's impossible.

Second, everyone has logical inconsistencies. Yes, even me. The logical inconsistencies betray information about role and alignment.

So I am not understanding anything here.

[Reasonably Rational]

My argument is that there's too much stuff for anyone to follow up on. That's why we vote and wagon as a group. I can't follow up on every logical inconsistency. It's impossible.

Second, everyone has logical inconsistencies. Yes, even me. The logical inconsistencies betray information about role and alignment.

So I am not understanding anything here.

Okay, sure. But shouldn't we expect people to follow up on the things they themselves brought up? I can accept people missing things, but not them noticing something, then inexplicably deciding it's no longer worth noticing.

-Cerb

[Bronya Zaychik]

My argument is that there's too much stuff for anyone to follow up on. That's why we vote and wagon as a group. I can't follow up on every logical inconsistency. It's impossible.

Second, everyone has logical inconsistencies. Yes, even me. The logical inconsistencies betray information about role and alignment.

So I am not understanding anything here.

Okay, sure. But shouldn't we expect people to follow up on the things they themselves brought up? I can accept people missing things, but not them noticing something, then inexplicably deciding it's no longer worth noticing.

-Cerb

Noticing without commenting is a great way to catch scum. Pressuring puts players on defensive. I am bad about this but any question or comment early should serve only to gather info for others. People reveal more when not defensive.

~Titus

[Maid Cafe]

I'll share my Micc case eventually.

~B

On a serious note, I will do this and give Micc enough time to reply to it before the end of the day.
The game is revolving around my slot a lot and I don't really think now is the time for me to hard push someone and have the game revolve around my slot even more.

Like shit like the Alisae case may not have been made if I posted mine first and people may just sheep my case and not come to there own conclusions first which is generally not great for the town.
I am kinda surprised no one has called me out for never saying why I think Micc is scum but that is why I am approaching this the way I am.

~B

[Bronya Zaychik]

The idea that because MC's mana generation method seems complicated is not based on anything MC is doing in thread, but is more towards not understanding how the mana claim works so she can manipulate it. She doesn't actually say anything towards with Beeboy is doing is scummy. Wanting to give an open ended question like that also makes other people more likely to talk about their mana claims and abilities as well. I'm kinda proud of some people for not going "Yeah, I think that's right because I generate mana simply or That sucks because mine requires climbing up Mount Everest three times then walking through the pits of hell". Skybird is also showing uncertainty about Chara’s sarcasm and deciding to assume meaning reread instead of seeking clarification.

Nothing about this is AI. Skybird might be inarticulate at expressing confusion and be anti-town in doing so. Yet, people didn't. If Skybird was legit rolefishing, she follows up there. Yet, nothing. Skybird's inattention is due to thread pace not alignment, even if you are right.

If you think Skybird might be scum avoiding stances, just pressure her to take them by asking for concise reads.

[OnTheMark]

............

329 was terrible imo. The idea of claiming in order to spur discussion and interaction is gross. Wanting to give a public warning that his ability is ever changing and unpredictable is scum motivated preparation for later and further shows how he’s missing half the utility of the ability. Him showing uncertainty about Chara’s sarcasm and deciding to assume meaning instead of seeking clarification.
..............

Explain to me the difference between this and Alisae's case when I literally rip out a post number change like one-two sentences just to have it paraphrased?