Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Kokichi Oma]

Gamma Emerald has put me at L-1. Anybody who is town on my wagon currently should unvote IMMEDIATELY!

You should probably claim.

[Kaito Momota]

I don't think Kiana is scum for her point system or for her arguments afterwards

VOTE: Archwing

I feel like you're pushing this as a counter to your own wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma has added fuel to both fires now (please check his ISO). First he egged on the Arch wagon and now he's egging on the Kiana wagon. I find his method disingenuous in that he doesn't seem to care about responses to his pushes; he seems to care more about presenting accusations instead AKA scum shading. Gamma seems pretty certain about scum Kiana but has not voted. Actions speak louder than words after all. It's as if he's a vulture circling and waiting for the best prey.

So, if I change my mind that's a scummy thing now? Well that's cool to know, guess I'll just play like Kiana /s. And I'm not even doing what you're saying. I don't think I've really explicitly said I've scumread Kiana, and the mindset I'm in rn is "help the person with tough love". So rather than completely shut Kiana off I'm opting to try to communicate with them a bit about why their method doesn't work.

That's fine but your arguments about my method are not convincing at all.

Mhm. How about the fact it can totally be gamed?

That's not convincing. You must prove to me that it can be gamed in a fashion that is significantly worse than whatever current method you're using.

Well it's kinda hard to describe my method, but what I do is basically analyze content and tell whether it should be coming from town or scum in the circumstances. Take my reaction to BuJaber's defense of you. I saw it, thought about the context and what he was trying to say, and determined that it was a bit too trusting to be pure. As such I reached the conclusion of it being scum if you're town via him knowing it's town motivated and defending it as such. It might not be perfect, but it's not one that you can game easily, there's always room to change my mind. Honestly I don't even know what your doing here either, I'm more voting you for the discrediting via the self-hammer mention than your playstyle, though the playstyle is certainly a factor. It's like 65% the discredit, 35% the playstyle.

[Kokichi Oma]

Let's quick lynch Archwing

[Gamma Emerald]

This argument by Bujaber is really good and you really should be engaging with this.

As for Kiana's system. People are disagreeing with her reasoning then calling her system bad. That's wrong. If you disagree with why she awarded x player townpoints or scumpoints argue against that. Saying the system is bad is stupid. Also her argumenys are generally pretty good imo. She's noticing stuff I would miss. Same with wh4t. His earlier pushes seemed suspicious but I'm starting to question my read.

Instead of whining about how your inferiority complex gets triggered by me when I only joined this site much later than you.

EXCUSE ME WHAT?!??!?!!?!?!? INFERIORITY COMPLEX? WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I HAVE THAT? You just, bfeu;wgjfnbjqbfsdav
Screw. Off.
As for BuJaber's argument it's not that in-depth but sure, let's take a look at it. I think her system is bad

because

of the way town and scumpoints are awarded. If she's awarding them for having similar thoughts, then there's the possibility you get pocketed by scum who are pushing the same agenda as you (which btw I feel like Kiana regardless of alignment is pushing an agenda). There's also the fact town are less likely to agree with you imo because they don't have that same desire to get in someone's good graces scum does. So as I see it it helps scum and hurts town. Kiana mentioned she only awards points for thinking similarly if they had the thought before she could state it, which is okay, but I'd like her to cite the examples for me. As for the arguments being good can you describe

how

, BuJaber?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma
Actually this is scum. He's trying to play both sides by telling Kiana to claim and then suggesting an Archwing quicklynch.

[Kokichi Oma]

Maybe it's because. I think both are maf. Which I said before either wagon started

[Kokichi Oma]

Arch I'm more sure on

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe it's because. I think both are maf. Which I said before either wagon started

Do you still think that given how they became each other's counterwagons?

[Kokichi Oma]

I don't worry about "counter wagons" literally in that game that just ended you and mom were "counter wagons" and were both scum. I go off who I think is scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't worry about "counter wagons" literally in that game that just ended you and mom were "counter wagons" and were both scum. I go off who I think is scummy.

And yet we didn't push each other then.

[Kokichi Oma]

Counter wagons as a whole are pretty silly as regardless who the other highest vote is, maf will buss for scum credit for the partner or themselves.

[Kokichi Oma]

You voted each other. So you're saying mafia partners are incapable of pushing each other?

[Raskolnikov]

Gamma actions make sense for someone looking at kiana arch through a locked TvS spec.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: arch

I've been upside down on this but I think occam's razor says maybe this is just scum. Play has fell off a cliff from earlygame tbh.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma
Actually this is scum. He's trying to play both sides by telling Kiana to claim and then suggesting an Archwing quicklynch.

This looks reactive / going after low hanging fruit.

Also, the post before it is strange. Gamma points to Kiana as having an agenda but admits that having an agenda is not necessarily scummy. And he also points out that she gives town points for agreeing and scum points for disagreeing. I can see his point I guess, but that sort of reaction is pretty normal. It's this lovely thing called confirmation bias and it's something I fall prey to all the time. At worst, she's simply wrong about her suspicions.

[Raskolnikov]

I think at least 2 scum are in {Kiana beefster arch maki}, maki - kiana can't be teamed though.

[Beefster]

VOTE: arch

I've been upside down on this but I think occam's razor says maybe this is just scum. Play has fell off a cliff from earlygame tbh.

What made you decide to switch your vote over?

[Raskolnikov]

I've been considering it for a while, though I wanted to give kiana wagon a run first since I'd rather do that.

[Beefster]

Why did you pull off the Kiana wagon though? Were you just not that into it in the first place?

[Raskolnikov]

Call it premature, but I don't think it's happening at this point. Wh4t is off, cedrick is off, and gamma is going onto kokichi. I think people are going to wagon gamma next and I don't really want that either.

[Maki Harukawa]

VOTE: Kokichi
this beef or brass ty

[Gamma Emerald]

You voted each other. So you're saying mafia partners are incapable of pushing each other?

Actually yeah that's right. Fuck my shitty memory, it can't remember anything that actually matters.

[Raskolnikov]

Beef maki might be a team.

[Raskolnikov]

*teamed