Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[profii]

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

I know he is scum

[profii]

it's a paradox, I am voting paradox. I'm hilarious.

[profii]

it's a paradox, I am voting paradox. I'm hilarious.

...That's not what a paradox is. Or am I missing something you're saying? Paradox's post didn't look that scummy to me; do you know something about his playstyle that I don't?

A paradox is something that leads to an illogical conclusion

Me saying I know something is illogical, because I cant possibly.

[profii]

Alrighty, which one of us wants to be the one to make an Avatar reference first?

Hello, it's me! I will make it first: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, three of these are in this game, the Air one is still frozen in the ocean I guess.

Since we cannot post in the thread, the two of us agree that we'd like more from Sando.

VOTE: Sando

Pretend there is a picture of a Predator on the side of my post rather than Griff Tannen, thanks.

Are you skipping RVS due to posting difficulties or any other reason?

Any particular preference for Sando over the other 1-posters?

[profii]

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

I’ll just note this is either genuine noob town or dooms pal


Asuka- hydra of osuka and ? Or just coincidence?

[profii]

Wot, no votes? We've got to start some dialogue so we can find scum.

Votes start wagons

, wagons start discussions, and discussions breed reactions. That's just how things work.

Ironically, non-voting has started this wagon, but I look forward to the on-going discussion

VOTE: doomfeathers

Shadpearl, you're next up by the way.

[profii]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

Do you know what would make him post? (If anything)

[profii]

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

flicking through the thread can I ask how people have interpreted this post, because I've changed my mind.

obviously, a new player, if you don't know how to use the tags, not a criticism, everyone has to start somewhere, I'm just putting it out there. (ps, [.v]player[/.v] without the .'s)

then, voting for a player who hasn't posted, but first post, so let's be nice and say RVS

however, to say I would hate for someone to be force to play if they didn't want to - this makes no sense to me because creature hasn't posted, how can you know any of their thoughts?

then I've already picked up on the Doomfeathers buddying.


there is no way a player has made links to 2 players in their first post and outed the entire scum team, this has got to be n00b town (no offence)

That doesn't clear Doom or Creature in anyway, or link doom to creature. I just think Shadpearl is likely town now.

[profii]

Ausuka- 1. Shadpearl could be scum I guess. I was maybe trying to avoid solving the game based off 1 post. One to watch perhaps.
2. The post I quoted was nil game progressing content, which is a fair enough reason on page 2. I liked the humour in tying my vote reason to things he said in a hilariously ironic way (laughing at my own jokes, oh yea) Also, he is a better early wagon compared to say Creature as Doom seems relatively active and we may be able to exploit that to sort that slot

[profii]

@Kopherald - I don’t

Does this forum have a word for this phenomenon- when a town player town reads his scum buddy, just to get a town read on his pal out and about in the thread

I’m sort of thinking how chainsawing is a word for someone who defends his buddies attacker


Anyway, the point. I always look at things as either it is or it isn’t - I think the odds of noob is higher than the probability of the phenomenon above, so I ran with it

[profii]

I made a typo

What would people call it if we were scum and I just kept saying oh I’m town reading brassherald? Is there a term?

[profii]

Kop herald * damn hydra

And damn typos

[profii]

Would lynch either of Creature/doomfeathers right now. The associative tells are unbearably obvious there.

Probabilities:

Both Scum: 40%
Creature Scum and doom VI: 35%
doom Scum and Creature having a day off: 20%
Both Town and playing really bad: 5%

doom is more or less a noob. He also has something on me (because in the game he linked I was his scum p and I went on to win that game despite him having been lynched on D1, so he could be paranoid). However, I don't see why he jumped to defend Creature before even Creature had posted, given that my meta argument was accurate and supported by many others (doom may not know Creature's meta himself,

but when several players back the argument up it must be true

).

Creature is OMGUSy by nature, He hate to be wagoned as either alignment and could very well SR his voters, I admit. However, his entrance was HORRIBLE. The "Town?" comment on an opening post by doom was silly enough to earn Creature a SR on it's own, even if he had to retract it soon after. Creature is GOOD as Town, and would not have commented on that post AT ALL if he was Town here. The bad play/nonesense still points to Scum!Creature, especially since that comment came while he was catching up, thus should have yet seen what I said about him (i.e. no way he OMGUS SR'd me as Town!him would still)

I'd suggest that meta is one of the things you shouldnt apply that logic to as it is highly prone to manipulation.

I dont see creature scum, I'm intrigued by the Doom VI theory, despite his join date, his last game prior to this was mar 17 according to his post history.

However, he acknowledged a point about the VLA and moved to another player he scum read. On one hand, predictable is good, on the other, obvious is bad.

I'll leave my vote where it is for now but I am looking for the next person who might falter under pressure now.

[profii]

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

There is definitely something not right in this pool of players (and I include TGP in a pool of 4 here) I wonder if TGP is trying to discredit A50 here which would suggest a potential defence on creature, but i dont really want to be voting with Doom, however that could also be bussing.



VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[profii]

I’m going to give almost50 the benefit of the doubt here and say

Maybe he meant “what if I said I’m town blocking kopherald here”


That fits better

Mason in an open.... figuratively or not... ooook

[profii]

So you don’t think your post warrants pressure?

[profii]

So I have just reflected on the creature thing. It is notable that rn he has made significantly more posts than anyone else.

Initially a few players picked up on the meta read of inactive-creature = scum!creature, this principle was put on the table by A50

So the people who are involved with creature were:
A50
Lalendra
Sando
KopHerald
Ausuka
ShadPearl

So let's sort these players.

ShadPearl

is probably the easiest, he didn't seem to acknowledge the meta principle as such. I still think this is noob play, rather than malicious. Probably town

Sando

RVS' creature, acknowledges the meta and then picks on Almost50's slighty incongruent push on Creature. I'm ok with this so Sando probably town in this engagement.

KopHerald

,

didn't get involved in the creature debate quite as quickly but post 63 did ping me a bit, if someone is obvscum, I appreciate that we want to maybe try and drive up some associations, however if scum is outed so quickly, they will be very guarded so I think we should prioritise removing scum from the game and then hope the NKA/VCA would provide a bit of help. Saying that, this entire post was caveated with 'if he doesn't get involved' which as I mentioned, has since changed. Brassherald didn't vote but I just felt compelled to include post 63 in this review. It's interesting that KopHerald also said voting wouldn't bring Creature to the fore. I would like to just specifically confirm that given Kop talking to Creature and not voting for him, he is on the trail of 'creature is involved, therefore not obvscum' as per post 63 - I assume I'm right.

Ausuka

says in 74 that Creature is 100% scum, presumably based on this activity meta, but 20 posts later says he is not. Didn't ever place the vote, said it would not be useful to do so. Doesn't seem to suspicious but fairly null

Almost50

- jumped straight in with the meta principle. He hasn't posted that much but despite Creature engaging in the game, hasn't changed his tune much so it's concerning.

Lalendra

pointed out that Creature has been active elsewhere and intends to vote park, then once he posted, flipped to town without giving any quotes just that he Creature was engaged. Kop pointed out the activity point was an error. This seems like someone trying to appear town on an easy meta read. I don't like it.


VOTE: Lalendra

I think Lalendra is try hard'ing to be town.
Almost50 is potentially going down a tunnel which only makes him a policy lynch at the moment which would be silly
I know KopHerald queried my read on ShadPearl but I'm still fairly happy to say it's noob play and not lynch.

[profii]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

I took the top sentence as, "even if we have caught some very obvious scum play here, we should spend the time we have on game-day1 to do some other scum hunting over the course of the next IRL week (or so) as it may help later"

that might have been through associatives or other scum hunting methods... the ping for me was if Creature is obv scum, why not just plain old rush? I can't think of a reason I would want scum to be in the game longer than necessary.




I think it was probably just miscommunication

[profii]

I misread the bolded part below:

Interesting play points on Creature.

He's been online since the game has started

,

but he hasn't posted anywhere

else, either; it was quite early in the morning, so it's possible he hasn't yet checked his role PM. I'd rather wait to wagon him until he's posted or more time goes by.

Considering that his entrance is pretty typical of his playstyle and that he is now active and engaged, I'm okay with placing him in the townpile now. The OMGUS response is typical of him, as A50 pointed out.

So you (mis)read the part you bolded, but skipped the part I put in red? Okkk

A50

, I'm having trouble with all of these associations you're making. You said that Creature and Doom are obviously linked. I'm not convinced. Then you say that a scum Creature would mean a scum Taly. Again I'm not convinced.

Paradox

, You've done something similar.

Spoiler:

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

How can you be sure this is not town on town? How can you be sure that A50 isn't bussing?

I've decided I don't need a response.

VOTE: TGP

This looks like his scum game to me. I've seen it before.

-Brass

Can you explain what exactly looks like his scum game? He's only made 3 posts.

Texcat, what did you mean by putting that bit in red?

[profii]

@Doom / 242 - probably not, I think he is a policy lynch for tunneling a player who I think is town, but obviously you’re allowed to be wrong so id probably only lynch if he refuses to look at anyone else other than Creature as I hate tunnels

[profii]

@Doom / 242 - probably not, I think he is a policy lynch for tunneling a player who I think is town, but obviously you’re allowed to be wrong so id probably only lynch if he refuses to look at anyone else other than Creature as I hate tunnels

We aren't policy lynching anybody because you don't like tunnels. Myself I don't like tunnels, but I'm not going to flat out policy lynch someone because they either can't get out of a tunnel or refuse too.

- Kop

Agree unless he goes to spectacular levels of derp I agree with you

[profii]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I can see how I’ve ended up in that pile on your observation that the Lal mistake might be too obvious. I’d have to think it through a bit more but I had it in my mind that it was something if no one checked between the post and Creature coming back it might be incontestable

But you have a point it might have been too obvious

[profii]

hang on, can Almost summarise his case on Doom right now, initially in 113 he said it was based on clear associatives between doom/creature, however in 260 he says creature can be town for now.

I'm a bit lost, so if Almost50 could just go over why Creature is now town and why his doom case still stands, it would help me greatly.

[profii]

That seems vague and not related to this game

Apparently that’s intentional but i can’t follow you onto doom based on that.
I could go back on my TGP lynch rn and if he flips scum then we can talk about doom as he will have a big case to answer I think

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[profii]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I can see how I’ve ended up in that pile on your observation that the Lal mistake might be too obvious. I’d have to think it through a bit more but I had it in my mind that it was something if no one checked between the post and Creature coming back it might be incontestable

But you have a point it might have been too obvious

Nah, that's not scummy. Mostly I just gutread you as scum, it feels like you're being too appeasing.

im working on not getting into 1v1s - they keep ending up being TvT so figures but I’ll move on...

[profii]

My lack of brain cells does not help with that agenda but yes that is a work in progress too :p

[profii]

Is the scum PT available to reference some examples from? I hate vague meta reads, no offence but I’m happy to listen to you if you can beef it up a bit

[profii]

Is the scum PT available to reference some examples from? I hate vague meta reads, no offence but I’m happy to listen to you if you can beef it up a bit

Mate, he was lynched on DAY ONE! You can go read the game itself if you like, but the Scum PT wouldn't give you much if anything!

So you’re saying we should lynch doom on your day 1 only meta read?

[profii]

So you’re saying we should lynch doom on your day 1 only meta read?

I mean, I was HIS SCUM BUDDY, so I was paying attention to every little thing he said. I wanted to tutor him some if I could. After all, it was Newbie game.

Listen, why don't you just drop it for now. The more you defend him the harder it is to lynch him later and the more "misconception" of him being Town in your subconscious is solidified, which will be bad for us down the road EVEN if I flip soon. What you're doing -inadvertently- is discrediting my read and thus my credibility even after I flip, and you are planting the idea that there's no case against doom in the minds of the masses.

Ask yourself this: Do you know me at all? No. Do you know how good/bad my reads are on D1? No, you don't.
So, do you want to sheep me? Absolutely not. But do you really want to discredit me and dismantle my opinion all the way?? I think not.

I sort of take your point. I have Doom on my scum radar - I’m pretty sure as I said, 1 of you 4 is scum.

I just can’t put my finger on it

I’m guess what I’m asking for is some insider knowledge on his scum game - eg “he likes to push a player who makes a mistake or buddy’s a widely town read player and he is doing that again here”

It would just help give you some credibility in my mind- obviously I want you to find scum, but I just need something substantial from you.

[profii]

@340 / Doom - I think A50 is trying but just making a poor case.
@341 / A50 - I think we’ve got as much out of you on the doom agenda as we are going to get right now. Who is scum read number 2 and why? Maybe giving something else some thought will clear your mind

[profii]

Lalendra knows Texcat's alignment here. I don't know whether it's informative about Texcat as well.

It’s day 1

[profii]

Aneninen seems to be gunning for Doom then ends up on Dooms scum ‘find’

It all seems quite contrived

VOTE: aneninen

If I could vote doom as well I would but I think I’ve already done that

[profii]

Taly -
Since the tell on Doom linking with Shadpearl, I was on board with that suggested scum!pool of {Doom, A50, Creature} having legs. Since it initially got raised I think the pool is more like {Doom, A50, TGP, Aneninen} - these slots have some weird associations and surely we will find at least 1 scum here, probably 2 I think. This is based on the players getting involved in this with each other so I think the SK will stay out the way and won’t be any of these players

I’m relatively comfortable with voting any of these slots but I’d like to see some pressure applied to anen for now, then I think we can review all slots.

I take your point on board about Shadpearl - I just made a decision really, it could well be scum but I felt that early in the game, let’s just be mindful of that event and scum hunt everyone else. I’d be keen to hear their thoughts on the 4 players I’m putting under scrutiny rn from Shadpearl at least and that would help me sort that slot

[profii]

Aren't you supposed to point out how it's likely Paradox is right rather than saying there's a possibility? There's always a possibility anybody is right. And even if he was right wouldn't mean he wasn't scum. That logic just doesn't work. I don't think you're scum, but you're definitely trying my read.

Scum.
VOTE: Doomfeathers

That was about this:

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

Which was stale as a slice of bread left for two days under the sunlight.
You seem to care about this topic a lot.
Which means, GoldenParadox made a lucky guess here. And I may be wrong about Almost. (No idea about Creature, I have to see what he's doing next.)

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

How so? I played recently in a game where she was conftown and barely participated so I'm not seeing yet how this is AI for her.

Oh. Nuts.

Wait, WHAT?!

Am I totally wrong or was it a slip which I'd missed before and Doomfeathers has just dug it up?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

Other things are coming later.

@ Taly / 372 - So, The first post was really canny by Anen and I could easily have followed him onto a doom lynch at this point. I mean, looking back at the initial doom vote i placed, it was still just emerging out of RVS so I think another wagon here would actually be a good thing to do

Then the 2nd quote above, then suddenly Anen is happy to move from a pretty solid scum read on Doom to sheeping Doom in that 2nd quote - I'm not 100% sure I'm following the 2nd quote so it seems a bit sketchy which means there is some kind of distancing/buddying going on here and it's being drive by Anen.

[profii]

@Doom / 387 - I definitely got involved in the Lalendra/Creature activity issue thing

I think in my head I had it down as if no one checked Creature last online time stamp between Lals post and Creatures next visit to site, it was unprovable but I think I’ve got the mechanics wrong so I’ve just discarded that

[profii]

Mod

can we get some prods?

The point about TGP not posting here but participating elsewhere is a concern but it still feels like policy more than caught scum. Saying that, day 1 is the optimal place for that sort of policy but a prod/replace is even more optimal

[profii]

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Scum wanting to watch A50 or someone get lynched and lurk by it.
Like, I know lurking isn't seen as a scumtell on this site really. But in my experience there are almost ALWAYS scum in the lurkers, multiple. And then people refuse to lynch them because "it won't give enough information" or "we don't have enough evidence."
And it's not like it's impossible to distinguish between lurkers, either. blockcandy didn't post/JUMS recently came in. But at least he's trying. Havingfitz is at least trying to take stances, and he's V/LA over weekends which explains his absence. Paradox just isn't even TRYING at this point. And if he's sick of mafia and has no motivation, why does he sign up for more and more games? He's just scum. If town was unmotivated, they would make an attempt to post some content (such as explaining 139), or they would replace out. These are the only things that make sense to do. Paradox does neither of these things. He continues to refuse to post ANYTHING while STILL signing himself up for more and more games for him to post in.

Paradox is scum this game, period.

In my limited experience, I do agree that in most games not removing the lurkers towards the start of the game has been anti-town and caused more confusion at inevitable LyLo time.

[profii]

UNVOTE:

I'm just going to unvote so the replacement atleast has a chance to defend themselves or give us a more town vibe. Gonna reread the case against Almost, see if I like it.

what’s the deal with replace ins

I guess whoever gets this slot has their work cut out because there is a significant wagon but I’m not sure what the general etiquette is with replace slots - do you ease off and let them come in politely or do you maintain the pressure and see if 2 players can’t take the pressure in that potentially scum slot

The latter seems more logical to me

[profii]

Obviously I’ve quoted Jay there but open question... just seemed weird to unvote a slot that is potentially caught scum just to be nice to whoever comes in

[profii]

I'm not dodging, just skillfully ignoring. The way of Elsa is powerful.

To profii, I'm just a nice person in general, so I'm giving it a second chance. Besides, the first wagon isnt usually scum, from what I've heard from players I've played with. And someone will be more willing to actually replace into the slot if there's a chance of survival, so that's another one.

Does it bother you if I

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Just to fill the void you left there and keep the pressure on the slot?

[profii]

I'm not dodging, just skillfully ignoring. The way of Elsa is powerful.

To profii, I'm just a nice person in general, so I'm giving it a second chance. Besides, the first wagon isnt usually scum, from what I've heard from players I've played with. And someone will be more willing to actually replace into the slot if there's a chance of survival, so that's another one.

Does it bother you if I

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Just to fill the void you left there and keep the pressure on the slot?

Keep pressure on an empty slot?

And why is the slot empty?

[profii]

I guess I consider it to be TGP or the next player with no inbetween. I concede your point

Was more interested in Jay rn any who

[profii]

He is indeed in the process of being replaced.

In other news, NEW SMASH GAME MUTHAFUCKAS!

--- Post Edit ---

Por que?

Assuming that’s @ me

I’d like to see the next player come in under pressure. It’s possible TGP is caught scum, so if we give them an easy route in they can collect their thought and manufacture some sheepy reads

I want them to come in and fight for their life and give us more chance of pushing them into slipping something

So I don’t like that you gave them room to breath, that’s up to you thought, just wondering if it bothered should that I got straight on it as you moved off (or any other thoughts)

[profii]

Ok I’ve been a bit busy at work

I guess I got the meta wrong by voting the outgoing TGP - I just played a game which i can’t talk about because it’s ongoing but explains why I thought it might help

I’m inclined to be ok with the doc claim as I had no really intention of voting A50 so whatever



I’ll walk the dog then try and do some actual scum hunting

[profii]

I’m thinking about the dr claim again.

There is a much higher chance than usual that one of the scum/SK go for him at night - with all the elemental stuff in this game, even if the docs do protect him, I think there is a risk we lose a power role

On the other hand he might attract the Scum and the SK reducing our night losses

I was town reading him but IDK what to make of this

[profii]

OK, Creature can be Town for now, which means I TR the entire wagon on TGP, but I'm not sure he is scum.

I'm fairly confident on doom being Scum though so..

VOTE: doomfeathers

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

Ok, here is how I’m dealing with the claim.

Almost50 wants to kill Doom-slot today

Although there was a significant wagon, we weren’t quite at intent yet so the way I’m dealing with the motivation for the claim is almost is pushing for us to go into this throw down

I asked him previously to give another scum read and he didn’t


This is moving towards deep tunnel territory and the best way to deal with it is to remove 1 of the 2 players - especially as its day 1 IMO - i don’t see this ceasing with both players alive tomorrow



Given how we’ve dealt with TGP I think it’s right to let someone come into the doom slot and deal with this

[profii]

I would say I have learned about this groups dynamics and my suggestions of maintaining pressure on TGP - this isn't something the group wants to do. I think I might still be on that slot so:

UNVOTE:

If the group feel the best way to progress the game is to invite them in and welcome them and take the heat off, then I'll be a team player and accept that. I have ongoing game reasons that I can't discuss that worked the other way which is where my idea came from.

In terms of the Doom/A50 thing. As per the above logic, if we are welcoming people in sans-pressure, then let's maintain that principle for all players.

However, should we do that and A50 continues to tunnel the slot, I feel a policy lynch has to be at least discussed.

I recently completed a game where I was involved in one such tunnel (and there was another 1v1 in the same game between other players) which really hurt towns chances as it wasn't dealt with early. So that is the main benefit is we remove an anti-town influence.

The optimal solution for me is a player comes into the doom slot and we decide he is a scummy valid lynch and tunnel is therefore dealt with. I do think he is town - I also think there is a policy benefit if the tunnel continues, however, that benefit is based has significantly reduced following the Doc claim (although that could be fabricated to 'win' this 1v1 as I said as a cc is unlikely (although I think any doc cc's at this point only really help scum/sk))

I think this is all based on my fear of tunnels which adds into the point Ausuka made where I am coming across a bit of a people pleaser - I don't particularly want to lynch A50 as I believe he is town, but he has had enough pressure on him and not really acknowledged that this tunnel doesn't really provide a pro-town progression so I'm not sure how to deal with it. I did ask him to look at the rest of the group but now I am trying a different kind of pressure than the wagon which seemed to scum read him.

However, saying that, the doom slot is going to potentially change dramatically so this could go either way really and I feel like I'm twiddling my thumbs for now.

[profii]

Plus he wants doom dead and doom replaced out

[profii]

I think 585 was fairly clear that I don’t like almost50 being so stuck on doom. To be clear, I don’t really care that it’s doom, I care that it’s a tunnel - it could be any slot and I’d raise the same objection.

I have also said I think the doctor claim makes almost50 a difficult policy lynch so I understand if people don’t want to lynch - as I said, it seems kinda optimal if new-doom comes in and scums it up - 1 scum down, 1 tunnel ended, hurrah - That would be lucky.

I was on the TGP lynch so I do find him scummy, however the consensus was not to apply pressure to a replace in- I’ve already said I can’t discuss why I think it could work, but feel free to search my replace ins for clues. But I’m happy to be a team player and go with the 2nd point as I accept I am in a significant minority with my ploy

I hope that is clear

[profii]

I said clear a lot, perhaps I should proof read a little better

[profii]

@profii #598
Sucks, doesn't it? v_v Team playing should be banned from games where killers hide in plain sight, but then we'd never Lynch anyone, lol.

What does this mean?

[profii]

@Tracker - don’t claim, obvi, target me tonight. I guarantee you will see me target somewhere.

This confirms me as town, and if I don’t go anywhere, it confirms me as scum. Also, this adds the chance that I can die in the night thus getting rid of the problem all together.

Except you can target the one you're going to kill, then the Tracker will have to out to expose you, then you claim you protected the target from X and they could have still died of Y or Z.

We have 3 ways to kill the target

and the Doctor has to choose to protect from just one.

tl;dr: "I'm dead anyway, so let me live for one more night so that can both perform a kill and out the Tracker w/o the other 2 goons being at risk at all.

Nice try though.

am I reading that wrong or is that a language slip?

[profii]

Why is he saying we though

Anyway, I like his point in 665, 3 perfectly valid reasons that FL is scum

Also I am revoking my policy lynch idea on a50 as the tunnel is not there so that’s positive. I hope
Math and a50 get along as the game flows better

I’m inclined to sheep 665

The self vote does nothing for me - I’ve seen town!FL do that - sure - congratulations on self meta. Yawn

VOTE: Flavour Leaf

[profii]

am I reading that wrong or is that a language slip?

that tell was made up a decade ago, it doesn't actually work

we are not lynching A50 today (or probably any day)

why are you not voting

Edit: math/a50 getting along is a death sentence for us
i acknowledge your vote

still wondering why you unvoted in the first place without any new ideas other than "policy lynch A50, one of the more skilled players in the game"

if you want to policy lynch at all this setup, the #1 person is jay, followed by prod dodging lurkers

everyone wanted to let you and FL in without pressure - I didn’t but came round to it

Seems a bit weird that everyone is straight back on FL thinking about that

[profii]

@Tracker - don’t claim, obvi, target me tonight. I guarantee you will see me target somewhere.

This confirms me as town, and if I don’t go anywhere, it confirms me as scum. Also, this adds the chance that I can die in the night thus getting rid of the problem all together.

Wait you claim one of the doctors, but if you're making an action tonight you're claiming full doctor. This sounds like replacing scum who knows he is going down so wants to get doctor to claim. We might as well wait a day and track him to see if he does make an action and if he's lying he'll probably be the one making the night kill.

This sounds like a scum plan to tie up the tracker for tonight

[profii]

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Given we know which team made each NK, are you confident that scum killed Lal to create a mislynch and that she didn't just give off doc vibes.

I've not read Lal's ISO to see if there is some kind of crumb, but I think scum would get really lucky to be in a position to pick a PR target that also creates a mis-lynch, I'd expect them to have to go for 1 agenda or the other (assuming there was a crumb they picked up on ofc)

So the fact you think you've been setup quite early in the game-day, means yours will be the first ISO I review once I get a bit of time, consider this FOS for now.

[profii]

Actually, I’m going to straight up claim. I’m one of the doctors.

Scum optimal strategy is to claim doctor and I STRONGLY disbelieve that Paradox would replace out of a TPR slot.

This.

nothing in lalendra's ISO suggests town
but then again nothing in lalendra's entire career suggests town

is anyone here actually capable of gutreading lalendra

That's going in my sig. And probably not.

Actually, I’m going to straight up claim. I’m one of the doctors.

Yay, more softclaims! Just what this game needed

That's a hard claim....

I really don't think that TGP would have given up so easily as a TPR, the claim isn't easy to disprove, and I don't see town motivation in highlighting the backup doc. Also not comfortable with the "I'm likely doc" followed up by a hard claim, I can't imagine replacing in and not reading the PM before posting. Also think he is trying to lure the tracker into getting a result on him because he plans to manipulate it and somehow convince us that the result makes him town.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Back at L-1.

This was Lal's last post. Following my last post, I dont think this is a mislynch setup.

She call's FL's claim a hard claim, then lynches it anyway, so as scum player could put her up as a lynch candidate probably fairly easily. If she was alive, we obviously wouldn't know she was a doc, even though she probably lynched due to FL hinting around the backup doc role, which probably rang alarm bells.

Lal has also been fairly open about being lynch bait in this game so again, there must have been some kind of crumb/meta whatever for the scum to go this way, surely the scum plan would be to let the town lynch lal naturally over the next few game-days if we get that far.


To play devils advocate against myself, I don't see the breadcrumb in the ISO, I've only played one game with Lal, so I'm not a meta expert either but I think there is enough in this post to say a scum player would likely leave Lal alive for a lynch than feel a need to kill her.

that leaves the idea of scum removing a threat, now Lal's ISO isn't very scum hunty at all, you could potentially suggest she was a bit concerned at the shadpearl slot, but if shadpearl was removing a threat, I don't think Lal was his biggest 1. Unless Shadpearl is trying to be clever and remove his threats in reverse order to confuse us. That will be the next ISO to read with a suspicious mind.

So that's 2 to work on... but maybe later, back to work now and footy later so could be late on tonight before I get a chance.

[profii]

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

[profii]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

can you explain why Taly might have gone from scum reading A50 to not doing so over the course of the flip into day 2 - admittedly I haven't been paying that much attention to this game during the enforced break?

I might have missed that.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

[profii]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

can you explain why Taly might have gone from scum reading A50 to not doing so over the course of the flip into day 2 - admittedly I haven't been paying that much attention to this game during the enforced break?

I might have missed that.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

There are so many reasons to change your read on someone. Anything could have caused Taly to change his vote. Maybe he thinks the claim is towny, maybe he reconsidered the read.

i know and everyone knows everything you just said in that post

What I'm actually asking is can you explain where you think talys motivations come from?


By saying there could be a number of reasons you are fence sitting, ironically

[profii]

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

[profii]

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

What? I seriously feel like I'm missing some sort of point here with you. Why do I need to interpret what Taly is saying when I can just read what Taly is actually saying was the reason?

everybody lies

or at least the scum do, so i suppose you are saying you think taly is just telling the truth, thats fine

[profii]

right just re-reading the thread a bit, i was looking at Sando vs Taly and I can't see that as TvS... kinda unlikely that it would be scum theater to me so I'll call them both town for now.


I think Ausuka is town as well - i dont see why it's a problem to be more interested in peoples interpretations of other players motivations, rather than asking people directly - how can we trust anyones word pre-conf-towning - if they are just lying, they will just continue, i'm far more interested in what someone thinks someone else might be up to, it's harder to come up with a rationale for someone else thats made up than make up your own story. But anyway, I get that Ausuka is taking Taly's word for recent posts... so moving on...


Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

[profii]

I never said it was weird that she was taking your word

I find it weird that she can't see why someone would want to ask. It tells me she trusts you - why would she trust anyone in a game where only the scum have trust between them?

Interesting that you are making assumptions and you are both scum reading me though

[profii]

Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Uhhh...So Jimmy is likely to flip scum, but you're voting me because I'm voting him. In what universe does that make sense?

LUV, welcome and thanks for 896, it makes me feel more positive in my Jimmy vote.

im voting you for being on a number of wagons yesterday and being on a wagon today... its like you just want people to die!

[profii]

Taly - sorry been IRL busy

Time for us to interact, ask me any questions and I promise to answer (10pm here and Mrs Profii is about to come in plus she has an early start tomorrow so answers might be later)

But let's go!

[profii]

Taly

Cool, so here are some questions I'd like to ask you:
1) Can you elaborate on your push/vote toward Texcat?
2) What are your reads on Ausuka, myself, Jimmy, Fitz, Shadpearl, and Kopherald?
3) What do you think about mine, Luv, and Sando's vote on you?
4) How do you feel about Almost50's doc-claim?



I’ll answer off the top of my head now, some of the read related ones I’ll re read thread tomorrow and look carefully

1- yea, I suppose that’s a SK vibe, I know people will say SK hunting is scummy but it just seemed like redcoats name appeared every time I looked at when wagons peaked - as if she was just subtly trying to get _anyone_over the line
2-
You - town
Ausuka - town
Jimmy - potential SK for similar reasons to Tex, particularly with that lynch but I know there can only be one.
Fitz - gut lean scum a little bit but that’s mainly based on low activity but need to re ISO as more posts have happened recently
Shadpeal - gut lean town but will re ISO this slot now some more content has appeared
Kop - really struggling to decide will re ISO over Easter

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

4 - I suppose the longer he survives the more suspect he becomes, surely with 2 scum alive they still have a goof chance of pulling a kill off even if the other doc bothers to protect- id probably chance it as scum unless I had an idea who the SK was as they would be more of a threat to me

[profii]

Oh seeing as another game just finished - 1992 - will be on my wiki soon. I referenced it earlier because I replaced into a scum slot and got lynched the very same day. Prior to my replace in, town was ready to lynch me anyway so pressure was on.

So I figured by maintaining pressure on TGP who seemed like caught scum we might catch a scum

Apparently people read threads before they replace in so my 1992 experience was probably the exception to the rule but you live and learn...

[profii]

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

[profii]

Yes that’s L-1

[profii]

I'm probably reserving judgement on Shadpearl's hammer until Jimmy flips, although I'm definitely copying the first part of that post for literally every hammer I do in the future.

Yes I think so too

My first thought was I just played a game where hammer inherits Power so it felt like deja vu but nope

Oh god

[profii]

Is there a scummie for greatest delivery of a hammer

Shadpearl, care to enlighten us any further on that one?

[profii]

So I'm still pretty sold on Profii, and a scumflip there would given massive scumpoints to Kopherald and Shad for pushing that lynch in the face of a counter-wagon without waiting for him to come back. Voting for pressure is one thing, you don't vote someone to L-1 to pressure the mod to do something about them, as Brass intimated. Apparently we're still sold on Shad-newb, so whatever.

VOTE: Profii

A50 is basically a VT claim at this point, although he's clearly not the SK. My view is that if there's a sole scum left then I'm happy with an A50 lynch, until then there's better targets.

I'm going with: Taly and LUV are not scum, would make very little sense to me for them to be scum. Could be SK, but I have zero idea about how to read that in-game, A50 is simply not due to it being suicide to fakeclaim D1 as SK.

lets just rewind to A50 here for a second

This is like the easiest game to take claim in the world

Prior to all the docs dying if you claim doc, the real docs aren’t cc’ing due to there being 3 and a cc having no benefit

Even if we mananged to out the tracker, scum could still kill them and the fake claim could be argued away as wrong element was used

Also when you do claim on day 1 you are probably going to draw 2 protections - so survival can be argued as right element was used on him

If you are the SK, scum are going to asses your reads and say “if he isn’t looking at us, let him survive and remove some players” particularly when there was obviously all of them alive on day 1


So I don’t buy that not SK

The other reason i wanted to go through all that was the A50 motivation for the fake claim was to win a 1v1 vs him and the now LUV slot and that scum read was based on some very loose meta of doom

I don’t think this lets a50 off the hook at all

[profii]

Also when you do claim on day 1 you are probably going to draw 2 protections - so survival can be argued as right element was used on him

Sure, it gives you a really good chance of survival into the mid-game and messes up the town-docs ability to actually save townies. But think it through to right now, A50 as SK really cannot win from this position, he's gonna get lynched or killed, and they're putting a massive, massive target on their back from scum.

Sure, it could be a massive SK gambit, but think about who is happier putting a target on their back whilst simultaneously messing with the doc protections... that's anti-independent conduct.

In the end, I've given you the time I'll lynch A50, and it aint today. If he's scum and we just keep missing his partner, I really don't care that I didn't lynch him, town has still lost. If he's SK, again, as town I need to find all three scum and the SK, and if he's tricked me it doesn't really matter to me that he lives to the end.

The other reason i wanted to go through all that was the A50 motivation for the fake claim was to win a 1v1 vs him and the now LUV slot and that scum read was based on some very loose meta of doom

Yes, the claim was utter bullshit and has been followed up with utter bullshit. He's either a doc who decided to lynch another doc, a scum/SK clearly fucking with town, or VT fake-claiming to protect docs and then lynching a doc... Look at those 3 and make up your own mind what makes the most sense, but regardless, unless you can give me a solid outcome from his flip then it's pointless risking even the 1% chance that he is a doc.

yeah did think of the bit that the SK has to survive pretty much the length of the game so probably not SK.

I also agree not a lynch for today, my point is we are not conf town'ing him by a long shot.

[profii]

#55 pretty much sheeped my vote on Shad. Never got into further detail beyond that.

#57 Tried to look busy by picking up on my misworded post

#82 He claims to be taking stances and making observations, before that post, I see very little observations or stances taken.

#499 A complete overreaction to my post towards Creature, and voted me without a valid reason for a vote.

#587 V/LA Over, catching up on ongoing games. #589 a question mark towards A50, but nothing more for almost nearly 200 posts.

#775 A vote on Jimmy for that hammer, town lean on Shad. That's it. Promised a read from the beginning, again nothing more for nearly 200 posts.

#948 He claims my read on him is based on previous meta. It's not just down to that.

#950 Yet another promise, nothing backed up.

#970 A empty question.

#976 If it's low, why aren't you prodding questions, engaging in the game, instead of sitting on the fence.

That is pretty much what I see from his ISO. Empty promises, lack of content, no stances, no engaging, no observations.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I am aware that he has been V/LA for quite some time, but in the times he has been on, and posting in here, he hasn't done a great deal.

use the post tags dude, but going to sheep this for now VOTE: HavingFitz

[profii]

Taly

, Profii, HavingFitz,

JimmyUrquanwhatzit

may be scum.

Where's Creature?
The LilUzi slot is confusing with all those replacements.

This was

Aneninen's

last post.

Profii

was on neither mislynch wagon.

Havingfitz

was on

Flavor Leaf's

mislynch wagon.

Let's start here
VOTE: havingfitz

actually i really dont like this. the self colouring is very LAMIST and also confused me as i glanced through which might have been the point.

You are apparently town reading Creature on the sole premise he is posting, which seems weak
You are also voting for HF on the basis that I wasnt on mislynchs which again doesn't seem thorough.

I'm going to re-ISO you and here is what I get...

(working backwards)

1004 - this pinged me, i know this isn't a read per se, but why didnt you just fix your post before you posted, the hammer will have been in your PEdit, so why mention this. Seems contrived.

Looking at those ISO Maps things, I can't really be too critical of anything there, I can see the reasons for the Jimmy lynch.

998 ok so you've picked up that KopHerald is meta reading here HavingFitz and you are now voting HF. Let's note that for later.
973 is mostly questions and no reads, but you do again make a point about KopHeralds read on HF. Again, noting.
952 interesting bit at the end of this post where you want people to interact with you

Ok, so I feel like Taly, you are the sort of player who sorts people by talking directly to them rather than just assessing the game in general as it rolls on.

I also feel like you've jumped on HavingFitz without a real interaction with him so that seems incongruent to me and it makes me think that's a better place for my vote to be right now

VOTE: Taly

[profii]

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

Do you town read Fitz? Why do you believe it's a mislynch?

- Kop

The way the wagon suddenly built up, basically just because he's been inactive, is really gross.

If Taly is scum I'd practically lock town HavingFitz I think. Good point

[profii]

you seem to take this personally based on flicking through that wall post but I'll respond to the key points now...

[profii]

ok well let's call it passionate then. I am the opposite of you, I am cool as a cucumber at all times. If that helps you take tone from my posts, the great.

Let's go:

1) Never use the word LAMIST again. It's just a buzzword that doesn't catch scum or actively detail what you think of someone's view.
2) I'm "trying to look town" because I am town and I'm looking at people aside from myself to game solve?

Like, are you disliking this because I didn't scumclaim or something? Or are you just trying to find a reason to nitpick at it to provide more for your case?

3) The point of coloring was to evaluate Aneninen's reads, and begin pushing people based off them since he was the NK. I also looked more exclusively at Aneninen because I was unsure about several reads, and I still am, so I looked at that to start generating discussion.

How about, you ask me for explanations and motivations instead of writing off my posts as scum-oriented and pushing me off little value like you did D2?

I flicked through the thread initially and saw a HF wagon. I saw your colour coding thing and saw me and him in white. I obviously know I'm town so that made me think well HF seems like a good wagon. Sometimes I can't be bothered making an entire extra case because it's pointless if it's already been done so I just sheeped and put the vote down to put a reaction in from HF.

When I actually read your post properly I realised you coloured yourself in and you are not conf town at all. We are all here to try and appear town - that is literally the point of this game - but colouring yourself in the same as a flip was a bit iffy. LAMIST one could say. Buzzword or not, it's true.

And, if I think you are scum and I acknowledge that you like to interact directly with people, I'm not going to interact directly with you. I'm going to vote you and get a reaction out of you. Annoying scum makes them slip. Annoying town makes them slip, either way it helps everyone read people.
I seem to have achieved that without a great deal of effort I think, so I'm going to re-read you (and probably avoid asking you too many questions, you'd like that...)

Seriously, what is your point?

[In response to me saying: You are also voting for HF on the basis that I wasnt on mislynchs which again doesn't seem thorough.]

I would say a town thing to do is to go make a case on everything someone is doing, you have picked on elements of my play which seems shoehorning where you want your vote to be.

Try looking at post numbers for 2 hours, and then when you're almost done, you see a BS hammer happen out of nowhere

it was a relatively minor point in the grand scheme of things, it just irritated me. If you go to the effort of doing everything you did, surely you'd go to the effort of making it perfecto. Your post, your call.

I haven't had a strong read on havingfitz for the entirety of this game, my vote was to get a reaction from him to help over his wagon to help me with that.

as above, so was my vote.

if you have a question, ASK.

as above, I'll do me, you do you. Sorry.

LOL! OMG, I'm scummy because I WANT to communicate and work together with people in this game, because that will make solving it much easier?

That's really funny.

[In response to me posting: 952 interesting bit at the end of this post where you want people to interact with you]

Apologies on this one - I suppose I could have elaborated further- we've obviously established you like direct interactions, but my point in that post was you didnt delve into dealing with HF directly and you ended up voting him. I still think voting on VCA only without really going into the HF ISO and finding a case is a bit suspect so I'm not being convinced to remove my vote rn but if you want to OMGUS now, that's ok, as i said, you do you.

So....
1) You don't ask why I voted for havingfitz.
2) You jumped on havingfitz's wagon yourself WITHOUT reasoning, and you admittedly sheeped. 1042]1042
3) You jumped off the moment Ausuka said she thought it was a mislynch wagon, and that scum could be on it.

1) by voting and saying you haven't given a reason, is basically the same as asking, you've not answered which makes me think you dont really have a good case.
2) Partly based on your dodgy colouring in - my bad i should have read more carefully
3) She made a good point that there is likely scum in the wagon, i seem to have a case on someone in the wagon, so seems like a better place to vote than HF

Just for clarity, if your wagon doesn't take off and the HF wagon wavers, I'll put my vote back to get a reaction out of him to sort him, so neither of you are in the clear for me.

4) I'd call it making a case, but I expect you to try and discredit it. I'd give you a 5/10 for trying.

[profii]

Hmmmm ok

UNVOTE: Taly

You can be town

[profii]

Hmmmm ok

UNVOTE: Taly

You can be town

Can you tell us what specifically changed your mind?

Despite the conflict I feel like we were both voting HF for the same reason (pressure push to see what he comes up with)
And I also think we were making similar cases against each other (sort of quite picky at each other’s posts)

I am guessing if I kept going at him he would keep coming back and my experience is big 1v1s like that tends to be TvT so I am cutting it short and calling it that rather than waste everyone’s time over the next 3 pages of us bickering

[profii]

So I consistently read fractious 1v1s as TvT

I’ve never seen a SvT bitch fight on this forum

So shoot me




No wait that’s a bad pun for this game

[profii]

While I’m here we still have nothing from HF

VOTE: HavingFitz


That’s 4/6 so L-2 I believe

[profii]

Oh right gotcha

Well I referenced the things I felt could be scummy at the time and you can call it manufactured if you want so I’m not going to reiterate it - you’re scum reading me so it’s kinda expected

[profii]

I figured and responding for the same reasons

[profii]

No way we win this game with so much lurking going on.

I just hope to God I'm not a fool.

VOTE: profii <<<<<<<<< L-1

It's fitz/profii/texcat (and I don't even know which of profii/fitz is the SK)

I’m thinking tex is the SK tbh

[profii]

VOTE: Profii

WTF is this? A naked vote.

I mean seriously.

- Kop

Gtk

Eh?

[profii]

Well gl town, cya in the dead thread

[profii]

Ok I’ll claim

I’m tracker

Looked at Jimmy N-1 and he protected Sando n1 which is nothing really but I did due to that lol hammer
The n-2 I tracked Shadpearl who went for Anen so I am guessing he is the serial killer. Again tracked the lol hammer. You’ll note I wasn’t on the lynch of jimmy during this day

I guess I had some random doubt in my mind that SK and Scum went for Anen or doc went for the wrong element but I’m confident shadpearl is probably the SK when he faked my death just then as I’ve been playing along with his interpretation that I’ve town read him so I assume he wants me alive to give him chance at survival

I am really hoping Shad doesn’t lol hammer now.

[profii]

VOTE: shadpearl

Probably should vote haha

[profii]

Taly I’ve been lynchbaiting to avoid a scum kill. Hopefully the doctor protects me tonight but I’ll start playing properly now

[profii]

Yea I know I don’t want To trigger Shad. I think I’m still at risk

[profii]

Phone posting rn but Shad did the opposite of OMGUS with a town read placed on me because He thought I TR him

That as a piece of a larger puzzle seems to me to be someone who wants to keep Reciprocated TRs around to see him through the later stages of the game

Could be wrong - just fits better in my world

[profii]

Ok so we’ve had some significant reactions to my claim.

Taly-
Had a think about it and vote parked feeling that lynching the guilty is a good idea. I’m to towning this because I did the same

Texcat-
Practically a naked vote on shadpearl and then almost a change of subject from the claim to my previous reads. I am reading the thread in order, I’ve flicked through but now writing down my reads - first impression is this is the most anti town reaction.

Creature-
Wants to town side the SK- i have not experienced this happening but the idea seems pro town if it’s possible to leash a SK - KopHerald is in the boat too.


A50 is going on the principle guilty + no cc = proceed. As is Ausuka, more on this later


Sando looks mainly into the possibility that I am fake claiming. This is good I think because it’s certainly something I want to look at too, he has opened my eyes up to some reasons for not lynching the guilty more on this to come...


LUV and HavingFitz - tentatively removed votes and didn’t do much else

So for me

Town bin : Creature / KopHerald / Sando

Town lean : Taly, almost 50

Anti-town potentials: Shadpearl, Ausuka, Texcat, HavingFitz, LUV


So, I think there is legs in not voting ShadPearl. From both anti town points of view, I am now a threat to them, so they may both target me meaning 1 night kill. That’s obviously better than 2 and the tracker flip confirms Shad so insta lynch or if he is the SK if you can leash then wonderful

The alternative is the anti-town team target Shad pearl and it confs me, so the doc can help me play follow the tracker.

I would probably say I am differentiating Ausuka and A50 based on the gambit. I don’t think anti town would gambit so even though they had similar reactions, a50 has that in town points column.

HavingFitz and Luv I would say have identical reactions so this feels like waiting to see where the game will go and being non commital


So let’s consider the numbers

11 player
2 vs 1 vs 8

We lynch a guilty (10)
Worst case 2 NKs if he’s scum rather than SK (8)

Then next day it could go down to 5 players if we don’t get any help


I think overall I’d like to lynch the guilty - if it is the SK then we stop a Nk which could give us an extra lynch and we may get tracker conf towns out of it


If we are not voting the guilty I think I’d lean towards that naked vote of Texcat but I’d need convincing to do so

[profii]

If I’m fibbing the anti town factions know this
Sando - Why does “the other faction” play Rock Paper Scissors with me and the doctor (if the doc believes my claim and protects me) as opposed to letting fibbing!me plus “the other faction” make 2 night kills reducing town numbers

IF I am fibbing, then the last thing I want is to kill someone who is likely the real Tracker so I’d aim at someone who Is highly unlikely to be tracker even if I hit scum or SK I still have a guilty and nothing’s clear so fibber!me can cause confusion tomorrow

I want shadpearl dead, conf town status and protection

I appreciate you all have to question the claim but if I was lying I would go out of my way to try and mess with you tonight to go through this debate tomorrow by targeting a random likely VT, I’m not sure how not clearing this up isn’t a risk of dragging this on

[profii]

No, I don't think you guys get it. Shadpearl has to be scum. There is no tracker CC.

In fairness

Let’s assume you are the tracker and I’m lying

If you cc’d - great there is a doctor but success is based on Rock Paper Scissors due to the elements

So you cc’ing means - the lynch is likely you or me, that risks the “real tracker” dying
Plus even if you do turn the lynch to me, you’d have 2 night factions looking at you.
A cc is very risky
You would know I was lying so there is a minute chance Shad flips scum/SK - therefore as real tracker you know you don’t need to claim because you would be lynching me with absolute confidence tomorrow

So I can see why people think no cc doesn’t mean I’m telling the truth in this game, which is why I want to clarify it

[profii]

... clarify it by killing Shad and conf’ing me

[profii]

The obvious counter thought to that is the doctor can’t protect me so why out yourself as a tracker....

Well if I am lying as Sando said, the other anti town faction has no idea, however what I would surmise is if I’m doing this as VT to “just survive” and stitch up Shadpearl then as a VT I am a very mean player - therefore, I’m either the real tracker or part of the opposite anti town faction to the various scums out there

It’s likely I get NKd I think as with 1 element protection and probable 2 elemental kills coming at me I will die so - let’s go for Shad, if he does flip SK, that’s 1 elemental kill coming my way, higher chance of doc protect actually working and a tracker action for tomorrow

[profii]

Shadpearl I’m phone posting so if I miss something you want answering please re-ask and accept my apologies in advance.

@1213

Non-existence plus random hammer = wtf so check it out.
The slots that actually post and give content can be read - so I thought PR is best used on the lurking unknown

In terms of picking targets that have flipped - valid point - but if I’m scum, I think it would be fairly easy to pick out some VTs from the living - I won’t name anyone for the sake of narrowing down the scum Pr kill pool



The Jimmy lynch bit - the first part of the bit you bolder says I think he was easy to pick on. I kinda didn’t expect him to die, but _someone_ lol hammered. Plus bear in mind as a PR I don’t want to be an actual lynch either so I did say I’ve been VI’ing


So then looking at you, again I followed a successful recipe - relative lurker, check, lol hammer, check- oh look 2 for 2.

In terms of the cc thing. If I was fake claiming, id anticipate a cc and then the 1v1 would be me vs that person making you irrelevant - not the case, I was going to die, I have pro- town info and it can be proved by lynching you (or Suboptimally, me)

You also mentioned buddying - yes I do - there was a point you said you are town reading me because I was town reading you.


I’m pretty much vote parked and as I mentioned earlier, want my conf town status please

[profii]

VOTE: profii
Sorry if you're town profii but I can't really see past the fact that you said your inno is "very likely to flip scum" and the fact that you opened today with votes on havingfitz and Taly. Your play isn't consistent with the results you claimed.

I can’t really remember that far back but as a guess I probably forgot the open setup and just had in my head that it might have been a scum PR as I probably expected them to have a way of looking for the SK but I figured that would just draw lynch votes to me which is not where we should be going - obviously that happened anyway so I can just speak freely

Technically that’s still conf town status and you can get Shad tomorrow (or maybe other faction will help over night)

I think based on that mistake by me it makes a50s scum case semi legitimate and probably will prove my downfall - I just hope given the lowish number of players given there still could be 2 NKs tonight that waiting a night to get Shad isn’t too detrimental - obviously if it is this mistake is on me so apologies town

However if people could look past that to the non cc claim it would be optimal

I know the idea of lynching off claim has been paraded although I see the logic again I’d say suboptimal given 2x NKs

I am assuming at this point people are going to go with me or Shad now so let’s get it done

[profii]

@Taly the very last bit

I didn’t want to reveal I was L-1 - I assume I was intent or I wouldn’t have bothered but I can’t remember
I wouldn’t have claimed and wouldn’t want conf town status otherwise - if I’m conf town, I’m more likely to die via Nk

I think doc!shad is low probability and we should kill him which as a by product conf towns me but the priority is the optimal lynch today

[profii]

Oh Taly

[profii]

I had a feeling something was up with Texcat but this was one of my first ever scum games. I’ve played about 25 games (inc other sites) and never drew scum until now - I got roasted in my other games but did ok ish in this game although not as good as I’d hoped- credit to S_S for carrying the baton home


Question @ Ausuka - I am fairly certain your strong ish scum read on me flipped to town after we started playing mafia month. Am I correct?

[profii]

Forgot to say - sorry shadpearl. Nothing personal there but it was a bit of a flail which is why I got caught out on that jimmy bit

[profii]

Question @ Ausuka - I am fairly certain your strong ish scum read on me flipped to town after we started playing mafia month. Am I correct?

Yeah, I think that was it. I don't remember much from d2 though, a month is quite a long time

I was playing with you in 2 games plus LUV as scum in multiple games so was trying to change it up all over the place to try and get town read by scum mates in multiple games. It was an interesting time