Open 715 - White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Almost50]

?? LQ is lynchbaity???? I agree BTD might be, but never LQ.
Bella I'm hesitant to vote because THAT is a true lynchbait. It might be better than a NL but we still have time so I didn't want to vote there.
That leaves us with the Korina PL, and I really don't know how I feel about that.
Why is Alchemist a good wagon again?

[Russian Roulette]

I take that back. Quick is very commonly scumread in most games he's in, but he's often the 2nd or 3rd scummiest person so he doesn't often actually get lynched. Still low hanging fruit.

I've never played with Bella but I'll keep that in mind.

This is usually the spot where I lolcase Alchemist but I'd rather not go HAM on this game. Red can do the case if he agrees on this.

So instead, just read CoA's 171.

[Flubbernugget]

Fuck it, Red's not posting, I'd rather not have the learning experience be "the game completely lurks out on D1".

After red's pot stirring with a subpar follow up tied into him essentially flaking, I scum read this as him poorly faking town.

[v)russian roulette[/v]

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Russian roulette

[Russian Roulette]

Go check RedFlavor's site activity lately and get back to me on that. He said he had exams last week.

Then check this entire game's activity and get back to me.

The pot stirring was me trying to fix the current problem of "no wagons or votes to analyse". I took a step back because this is a teacher hydra, and I'm stepping in right now to avoid a prod.

Are you mixing us up? Because we have fairly distinctive posting styles. English isn't his primary language.

[AnonymousGhost]

I disagree. Shad's posts seem like newb scum.

- No effort to game solve; just hands out an easy town read to RR and CoA and then points the finger at the obvious players w/o engaging Alchemist and Not_Mafia in order to figure out their alignments.

- If Shad was paying attention to the discussion, then he should have formed some opinion about the events that's happened so far i.e. Korina, your push on Bell, Flub's push on Korina, etc. instead of the events that are focusing solely on him and then trying to side step them.

- Parrots other players, most strongly CoA's "I don't think he's contributed to the game at all in a way," with Shad's "Alchemist's posts just... don't have anything to them. Nothing good, but nothing really suspicious either."

- Hedging and handing other people the responsibility to game solve, so that he can shift his opinion in the future if need be: "I'll let you smarter people figure them out.", "haha I didn't really have anyone on my radar so one vote was as good as another.", "Aren't there better people to be focused on?", "Ya'll probably know better than I, haha."

[CultOfAthena]

VOTE: Shadpearl

Your soft defense of me feels off, like you're trying to buddy me or defend an easy push. Scummiest thing I've seen so far in this game.

Really? This:

Also, I don't think light posting at the beginning of the game is necessarily bad (yes, I know, I'm a pot). But maybe Alchemist just has nothing helpful to say yet?

Is the scummiest thing you've seen so far?

Are you saying he's incorrect when he says this (ie you're agreeing that the points against you are valid)?

---

Red and I both agree that Bella's whole "lack of scumreads but a bunch of lightly justified townreads" shtick is scum indicative. He thinks it's because people with lots of townreads are trying to pocket people; personally, I just don't see enough effort from Bella to sort people or make waves to really jive with her apparent PoE strategy. I think scum have the tendency to PoE themselves out of good scumreads (they read townies as town).

I'd like to see more votes on Bellaphant.

Effort is NAI. As scum I pushed Bella early on in my last game with her with almost this exact same reasoning, if I recall correctly.

[CultOfAthena]

- Parrots other players, most strongly CoA's "I don't think he's contributed to the game at all in a way," with Shad's "Alchemist's posts just... don't have anything to them. Nothing good, but nothing really suspicious either."

I agree that his read on me seemed kind of "surface-level", but how can you call what he said there "parroting me"? He's

disagreeing

with me, if anything.

[Korina]

VOTE: Korina
I’m mafia goon btw.
My vote isn’t moving today.
If we’re talking about gambits, then I may as well pull my favorite one off.

[CultOfAthena]

VOTE: Korina

Die.

[Korina]

UNVOTE: Korina
I’ll be my own hammer if that’s fine with you guys. I need to explain one thing before I get lynched.

[AnonymousGhost]

@Athena

Saying that Alchemist's posts "just... don't have anything to them," is the same as saying "I don't think he's contributed to the game". It's saying the same thing, but wording it differently.

Where is Shad disagreeing with you?

Pedit:

@Korina

- Instead of wasting time with gambits and not progressing the game, take Flub's suggestion and create some reads based off this bullshit drama.

[CultOfAthena]

@Athena

Saying that Alchemist's posts "just... don't have anything to them," is the same as saying "I don't think he's contributed to the game". It's saying the same thing, but wording it differently.

Where is Shad disagreeing with you?

Pedit:

@Korina

- Instead of wasting time with gambits and not progressing the game, take Flub's suggestion and create some reads based off this bullshit drama.

Yes, he's agreeing with me on the first part, but when it comes to what that means in terms of Alchemist's alignment and voting him, this is what he says (bolding mine):

@Almost50 ....I don't know what SR means and Mafia Wiki won't tell me... ( . .)

Also, I don't think light posting at the beginning of the game is necessarily bad

(yes, I know, I'm a pot). But maybe Alchemist just has nothing helpful to say yet?

That being said, I see it more as tapping the breaks on a runaway train. Alchemist's posts just... don't have anything to them. Nothing good, but nothing really suspicious either.

Aren't there better people to be focused on?

These day phases last so long.

I don't want to spend 6 days chasing a non-active who won't do too much

. x_x 'Course, that's just me. Ya'll probably know better than I, haha.

[AnonymousGhost]

Is this the disagreement?

You are suspicious of Alchemist because he hasn't followed through with his questions/statements.
Shad's suspicious of Alchemist because Al's posts are NAI, but he wants to focus on someone else.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Korina

[Almost50]

OK, I ISO'd Alch and while it is true most if his posts are void, and the ones with content are either theory discussion/advice or agreeing with something already mentioned I'm still not getting a scummy vibe from that.

However, I am sold on the Korina PL now after that self-vote.. again. It's like he's deliberately sabotaging the game for some reason. I still don't think this would flip scum (because the way he's playing makes no sense in a setup where we are required to lynch only 2 of them), but it's annoying and destructive to the point I think it would have to be done sooner or later. (I was actually hoping we'd lynch scum early on so we won't have to get to a PL, but now I think the sooner we get him out of the game the better).

I would thus reluctantly second AG's request for Korina to replace out so we can get a player I can actually read.

I think I can sheep CoA's case on Shad for now, but if Korina doesn't behave and doesn't replace then I reserve the right to lynch him to oblivion today.

VOTE: Shadpearl

[Quick Maker]

We have some questions.

@Alchemist, you seem to be voting on a pretty narrow basis. Did "Also, I don't think light posting at the beginning of the game is necessarily bad (yes, I know, I'm a pot). But maybe Alchemist just has nothing helpful to say yet?" factor into your vote? Why do you think your vote is justified?

@Not_Mafia, We need you to explain more. I believe your way of playing is unacceptable, and I have in fact PLed you before based on how you play. Maker thinks what you are doing is hard to get an idea if you are Town or Scum and I completely agree. You need to explain why you are doing what you are doing. Explain your read on us and the vote you made at the beginning of the game.

We feel AnonymousGhost's behavior this game is more Town indicative than Scum indicative. I noticed that you had been doing a lot more question asking when the rest of the game was more or less just providing analysis and that is a good look. Maker thinks that it's more likely that Town tries to "police" the game asking the mod for prods and whether Korina should be taken out of the game. This is all with the caveat that AG plays a more Townie way as Town and not Scum, and isn't the type of player who tries to Scum hunt more as Scum.

@HavingFitz, we asked you some things in our previous post, please answer those.

~Quick

[CultOfAthena]

Is this the disagreement?

You are suspicious of Alchemist because he hasn't followed through with his questions/statements.
Shad's suspicious of Alchemist because Al's posts are NAI, but he wants to focus on someone else.

I don't think Shad is suspicious of Alchemist at all. I think he just agrees that his posts don't have much to them.

OK, I ISO'd Alch and while it is true most if his posts are void, and the ones with content are either theory discussion/advice or agreeing with something already mentioned I'm still not getting a scummy vibe from that.

However, I am sold on the Korina PL now after that self-vote.. again. It's like he's deliberately sabotaging the game for some reason. I still don't think this would flip scum (because the way he's playing makes no sense in a setup where we are required to lynch only 2 of them), but it's annoying and destructive to the point I think it would have to be done sooner or later. (I was actually hoping we'd lynch scum early on so we won't have to get to a PL, but now I think the sooner we get him out of the game the better).

I would thus reluctantly second AG's request for Korina to replace out so we can get a player I can actually read.

I think I can sheep CoA's case on Shad for now, but if Korina doesn't behave and doesn't replace then I reserve the right to lynch him to oblivion today.

VOTE: Shadpearl

Assuming you're referring to Ghost's case on Shad, explain how there's a "scummy vibe" there but not from Alchemist?

[Not_Mafia]

@Not_Mafia, We need you to explain more. I believe your way of playing is unacceptable, and I have in fact PLed you before based on how you play. Maker thinks what you are doing is hard to get an idea if you are Town or Scum and I completely agree. You need to explain why you are doing what you are doing. Explain your read on us and the vote you made at the beginning of the game.

No

[AnonymousGhost]

@Quickmaker

Your reasons for town reading me are bad. Stuff like asking questions or asking the mod to prod people is NAI.

[Russian Roulette]

@shadpearl

What do you think about Alchemist21? What is your read on him and what do you think about his vote on you?

[Almost50]

Assuming you're referring to Ghost's case on Shad, explain how there's a "scummy vibe" there but not from Alchemist?

I should probably NOT post when I really want to sleep.

What's your stance on Shad?

[Vijarada]

Am I OK to just vote for Korina lol?

[Vijarada]

I don't think Bella's posting here is particularly bad. Read a couple of games with her. Seems similar etc.

[Alchemist21]

Is the scummiest thing you've seen so far?

Are you saying he's incorrect when he says this (ie you're agreeing that the points against you are valid)?

Pretty much. There was no reason for them to try defending me unless they were trying to pocket me.

How many votes are on Korina now? I want to lynch them now but don't want to end the Day just yet.