Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

No, I realize I was wrong about that point, you are generally away on Weekends.

[Thestatusquo]

You did, you are just trying to use his reaction as justification for changing that read. The timing is bad. You have no true 'case' on Dunn, you couldn't even make one. Fair enough on the weekend inactivity. Yet let it be known that when I try to show you my thought process, you don't actually care to interact with it. You never scum read me in Day 3, your case only came up

after

my defense of CES. This is the same case with Davsto.

1) no? peoples reads change because people do town and scum things. LQ did things on day 3 that I think are impossible coming from scum, so I no longer scum read him. thats literally just how mafia works.

2) I answered the dunn point in great detail. Here it is again for you since you're just pretending that didn't happen.

6)

He also has confidence in Dunn being scum yet he can't even case him.

Yes, gut reads exist. In fact, if I were scum trying to mislynch Dunn I can fucking promise you I would have been able to make a fake case and it would have been at least ok. I didn't because I concluded that my read was mostly gut and that wasn't a reasonable thing to ask people to follow me onto. You are taking all of these things and ignoring the town motivations behind them is scummy. Your analysis here is based on trying to make me look bad "LOL SHEA COULDN'T CASE A SCUM READ" while ignoring the fact that I would absolutely make a case as scum and wouldn't as town. Ignoring completely my motivation for WHY I didn't make a case.

3) yes, your play day 3 was significantly more scummy than day 1 and 2. Hence why I find you to be scum because of it. Your play today is also scummy as fuck as you've tried to get almost literally anyone other than yourself lynched.

[Thestatusquo]

No, I realize I was wrong about that point, you are generally away on Weekends.

yeah but you've made a similar attack on every single townie you've gotten mislynched and you've used that argument on me this game before too. Is this just your go to "I'm going to make a completely wrong attack that sounds plausible" in order to ram through a misslynch argument?

I really have to go to bed. I have to wake up for work in 6 hours.

But town I implore you, read ranmarus points and ask yourself if theres actually any scum motivation for the things hes attacking people for. Generally there isn't.

[Thestatusquo]

and look, I made an even more in depth response to the dunn point that you completely ignored.

you can't just use points I've roundly defeated by pretending I didn't answer them.

Like I really want to delve deeper on 6) here.

I have made several cases on scum reads this game. I have made one on ranmaru himself. I have made one on a player that flipped town. Why are you just ignoring this. What is your argument for what you think my motivation was for not casing him? It can't be because you think I don't make cases as scum, because I've done that. It can't be that you think I was trying to get him mislynched as scum, because if thats the case I definitely would have made the case. It can't be because you think we're scum together, because you think my scum partner would be davsto? It can't be because you think I was hoping he would get lynched and that I would be off the wagon because I have continued to vote and push him.

WHY exactly do you think this is scummy? Because I literally can't think of any scum motivation for a scum player not casing a scum read that is under heavy suspicion. The motivations are all town. They are that I didn't want to distract the town with pushing a lynch I couldn't bring people on board for and because I didn't think my gut reasons for scum reading him as opposed to marquis were particularly convincing.

These kinds of arguments look good on paper. You can shout over and over again that I did something that doesn't make perfect sense. I.e. I had a strong scum read on someone I tried to write a case on but couldn't. But its all surface level. You don't seem to care AT ALL about WHY a player might do that. You don't seem to care at all that there isn't really plausible scum motivation to do that. You don't care at all about the fact that you have to ignore multiple stated posts to make this argument. You don't care at all about the fact that my other actions don't fit even a little bit into your narrative.

All of your points are like this. They're attacks that are surface level "here is a thing shea did which I don't understand....SHEA IS SCUM."

That's just not a town mindset. Town wants to dig down and find the motivations behind why people are doing things. Town doesn't look at an action and say "this is weird must be scum." Scum does that because scum wants to push the town to mislynch people, and they don't need to be right, they only need to sound convincing and plausible. You seem way more concerned with sounding good than being right.

[Ranmaru]

1. I'm talking about the CES read. You only reconsidered at the last minute.
2. Originally your push on Dunn was never convincing, you said 'there's nothing there' which is why to me, that was more of a null. So you not being able to case him, doesn't make sense when you have strong conviction. You stating it is GUT, is your only fall back. Otherwise, you would have said it was gut from the beginning.
3. Your case was talking about days before Day 3, so I don't understand why you say that. It would make more sense for you to have brought this up before today. Your case wasn't based on actions only coming from Day 4. So, it makes more sense that you are indeed using CES's flip to push me/dunn rather then push me before hand, which would make more sense if you truly did believe in it.

[Thestatusquo]

Have you been paying literally attention to LQ this game? Have you been paying literally any attention to ANYTHING in this game besides marquis?

Because I've had to do that like 5 times.

VOTE: ces

L-1.

If we lynch dunn/

marquis

/

ces

/

NSG

we win the game.

oh wow this post is pretty bad

what? this is just an outright lie. marquis is colored green on that post but has NOT FLIPPED.

this is one flipped town one flipped scum and two unflipped players, one of which is still likely to be scum.

[Thestatusquo]

that flip from gamma is really bad. He went from "shea is town" and had me listed as a top town read earlier, to voting me 2 posts later.

If ran is scum its possible gamma is the buddy instead of dunn.

[Ranmaru]

Put simply, your pool of [Dunn, NSG, Marquis] shows that you had less options to go for at the time. Again, this goes back to you having static reads. That is why you are not able to CASE dunn, you had little fuel. You say you *CAN* make cases as scum, and I'm not disputing that. At that time, you had no other cases you could make, so you had to just default to that, and default to sheeping me onto Marquis.

[Thestatusquo]

1. I'm talking about the CES read. You only reconsidered at the last minute.
2. Originally your push on Dunn was never convincing, you said 'there's nothing there' which is why to me, that was more of a null. So you not being able to case him, doesn't make sense when you have strong conviction. You stating it is GUT, is your only fall back. Otherwise, you would have said it was gut from the beginning.
3. Your case was talking about days before Day 3, so I don't understand why you say that. It would make more sense for you to have brought this up before today. Your case wasn't based on actions only coming from Day 4. So, it makes more sense that you are indeed using CES's flip to push me/dunn rather then push me before hand, which would make more sense if you truly did believe in it.

1) the ces read changed because it was based on meta. I have played many many games with ces. He was mostly playing to his town meta. That response, as I explained multiple times, does not fit in my town meta of ces. Town ces would never respond that way. I have explained this at least 3 times. You are actively ignoring those posts to make this argument.

2) this is not responsive to any of the things I quoted. Whats my motivation ran? WHY is it scummy?

3) my case is talking about the sum total of your actions. the majority of it is based on how on day 3 you were willing to vote literally the whole town besides the scum. as well as the actions and tactics you have that have significant scum motivation.

but saying its not based on 3 is definitely a lie. the vast majority of the case is talking about day 3. much of it is predicated on your suspicions and votin patterns on day 3 specifically.

can you stop fucking bald face lying?

[Lycanfire]

the refusal to poe people as town is frustrating

what is the harm in being wrong? your scum towns will open wolf and nobody is town at lylo.

this is why both you/ranmaru/davsto were different shades of antitown fuckers for me, we need consensus to go forward

[Thestatusquo]

Put simply, your pool of [Dunn, NSG, Marquis] shows that you had less options to go for at the time. Again, this goes back to you having static reads. That is why you are not able to CASE dunn, you had little fuel. You say you *CAN* make cases as scum, and I'm not disputing that. At that time, you had no other cases you could make, so you had to just default to that, and default to sheeping me onto Marquis.

what...you're attacking me for having static reads while at the same time attacking me for my read on LQ changing.

don't you see how fucking incoherant you're being?

[Lycanfire]

it's like shea wants all my towns to be on the table as potential scum, which i find to be ill intended

[Thestatusquo]

it's like shea wants all my towns to be on the table as potential scum, which i find to be ill intended

when someone is as wrong about the entirety of this game as you are, lots of people are going to disagree with you.

LQ is town. Dan is town. Davsto is town.

Any attempts to push any of those three will be met with swift resistence from me.

Marquis and gamma are also likely to be town, but gammas actions right now are not good.

[Lycanfire]

suggestion: everybody in this thread votes dan

Ranmaru: unlikely to be with LQ, happily voted LQ.
LQ: potential to be on a Dan team, has voted Dan in the last 24 hours, if he doesn't vote Dan, it's a scumclaim
Gamma: should be willing to vote Dan
Shea: i see you as possible on dan and lq teams

we need one more, and I imagine Dunnstral is willing to hammer. despite what Gammateam seems to think, I'm not as sold on the Dunn-Dan team, even though there's some shit in CES' iso, Dan treated Dunnstral the same way he treated Gamma/Eddie.

[Lycanfire]

LQ is town. Dan is town. Davsto is town.

[Lycanfire]

just going to let people know for tomorrow to ignore most of the vote patterns of late d4 if we get a town lynch. i think early d4 had open wolfing.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I don't know how ranmaru keeps metadiving me to come up with these little out of context quotes to try to implicate me while at the same time not seeing the posts that explain exactly the thing he says didn't happen in detail. They're there, usually only a few points below the snippet hes quoting.

I don't know how he could miss that my vote on ces was based on meta while finding other quotes talking about ces.

Either he is deliberately not saying them, or he is not trying to actually find what I said on the subject.

[Thestatusquo]

I will vote dunn or ranmaru. If people want to make those wagons happen I'll gladly jump on. I'd rather take our no lynch today than lynch someone thats obviously town.

[Lycanfire]

Ranmaru: unlikely to be with LQ, happily voted LQ.

failed externalization. i meant to say that ranmaru already poed himself away from lq, when i felt like this was a possible although one of the least likely teams. ranmaru failing to vote for someone again to poe is awful, and if we can't get him on board, it's also a scumclaim.

sorry sometimes my godreads speak through me in mysterious ways

[Ranmaru]

1. I'm talking about the CES read. You only reconsidered at the last minute.
2. Originally your push on Dunn was never convincing, you said 'there's nothing there' which is why to me, that was more of a null. So you not being able to case him, doesn't make sense when you have strong conviction. You stating it is GUT, is your only fall back. Otherwise, you would have said it was gut from the beginning.
3. Your case was talking about days before Day 3, so I don't understand why you say that. It would make more sense for you to have brought this up before today. Your case wasn't based on actions only coming from Day 4. So, it makes more sense that you are indeed using CES's flip to push me/dunn rather then push me before hand, which would make more sense if you truly did believe in it.

1) the ces read changed because it was based on meta. I have played many many games with ces. He was mostly playing to his town meta. That response, as I explained multiple times, does not fit in my town meta of ces. Town ces would never respond that way. I have explained this at least 3 times. You are actively ignoring those posts to make this argument.

2) this is not responsive to any of the things I quoted. Whats my motivation ran? WHY is it scummy?

3) my case is talking about the sum total of your actions. the majority of it is based on how on day 3 you were willing to vote literally the whole town besides the scum. as well as the actions and tactics you have that have significant scum motivation.

but saying its not based on 3 is definitely a lie. the vast majority of the case is talking about day 3. much of it is predicated on your suspicions and votin patterns on day 3 specifically.

can you stop fucking bald face lying?

1. No he wasn't. You yourself said he wasn't being hypertown yet you excused it anyway, in your response to me in Day 2.
2. Motivation: Let Ran do all the work while Shea just sits there, in the background, using the excuse that he can't case anyone at the moment. If he were town he'd be more influential.
3. I meant to say that your case is talking about Day 3 and before in general, so it would have made sense for you to bring that up, in Day 3, not after CES flips. That's why I'm saying, that you used CES as the spark, so you would build your case around it.

[ActionDan]

Unvote; Vote: Shea

VOTE: TSQ

VOTE: TSQ

:V

I'm super tried I'm sorry I can't pull the trigger on this without sleep it would be irresponsible

[Thestatusquo]

1)
It's literally even directed at you with a helpful little @sign.
viewtopic.php?p=9942710#p9942710

Why are you not seeing this stuff? My read on ces was based on meta. I even said so in a post DIRECTED AT YOU.

2) thats bs. I addressed everything you just said in the post I quoted. Clearly I continued to push him, so I was obviously not trying to make it look like I wasn't scum reading him AND I have not shied away from being on any lynch this game that I thought was scum. This just doesn't make sense at all.

3) your actions around ces were super scummy and my I wasn't focusing on you day 3 like I was after day 3 happened. I let you skate by on day 1 and 2 town cred, but your day 3 play was basically a scum claim.

[Lycanfire]

how can i reach these kids

[Shadoweh]

3 hours. I tried the unofficial vote counter and it failed. >_> Shea, stop being a stubborn idiot, do you think you're more likely to be scum then these other people? If not then you should be open to at least proving you're right and they're wrong.

Everyone ignoring the entire day to wagon someone random is not something I expected out of Mafiascum. It does remind me of a lot of games I've played with Dan elsewhere. These never end well.

[ActionDan]

Don't tempt me to bring back fun traditions.

I could carry on the legacy of NeoSerela