Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

1. Dude, that's what I'm talking about. I got the wording wrong. Yet you said he wasn't as aggressive here as he was in his town games.
2. You have no other options you can go for. If you are town, why bring up things about Dan but never actually push him, and just stick to your pool?
3. This is the reason you are scum. It makes more sense that town would be ignorant and push for what they believe in passionately, even at the wrong time. You have to consider why I originally had town cred at all first. Did it seem like I was just doing all that just to be town read?

[Thestatusquo]

If me being lynched gets ran lynched tomorrow I'm all for it. People will look back at this misrepresentation cherry picking and straight up lies and see what I see really fucking clearly.

If we lynch me and then ran it wins the game just as much as if we lynch ran right now.

So the best play I have is to take ran down with me.

1) no, I said he was more aggressive in being hyper focused, but that he was hyper focused in the other game too and I considered it a small difference in play.

2) what?

3) Just because you push for things when you're being ignorant does not mean all town does that.

[Thestatusquo]

if you read that and thats what you're talking about how can you possibly think my read on ces wasn't based on me thinking he was playing to his town meta. That's literally what that post says.

[ActionDan]

Yes. He also didn't have CES in his pool until that very point, which makes more sense as scum taking advantage of a bus rather then town just jumping on at the last minute.

Actually I don't remember if CES was mentioned one way or the other before NSG's case but that does remind me that I do think I did pause briefly when Shea critiqued CES's response to NSG's case wherein he said something along the lines of "CES is answering the same thing twice" or somettinhg and it wasn't really true. lemme go back

[MathBlade]

Votecount 4.11

Thestatusquo(4)

~ Dunnstral(33), Ranmaru(116), Gamma Emerald(89), LicketyQuickety(107)

Ranmaru(2)

~ Davsto(30), Thestatusquo(81)

Shadoweh(1)

~ ActionDan(34)

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Shadoweh(39)


Not Voting (0):

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-19 04:22:42)

MOD NOTES

I will do my best to be available at deadline however it's in the wee hours for me.

[Ranmaru]

My ces read is basically that CES is being useless but that this doesn't make him scum

. If you look at The first mafia, for instance, he's very similar in my eyes. Hyper focused on weirdly specific parts of the game. Relatively same level of participation in the game by total post count, its similar right down to the hammer graphic he posted in this game. He's a little bit more aggressive in his hyper specific focuses, but that's a pretty small difference in play. Basically I think everyone scum reading ces isn't really bothering to meta him. I'm not saying he's town, as you can see by my read list but I think lockscumming him over other players doesn't make a lot of sense once you look deeper into his meta.

You use the meta to defend him. It would make more sense for you to support his wagon before L-2. Not after.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes. He also didn't have CES in his pool until that very point, which makes more sense as scum taking advantage of a bus rather then town just jumping on at the last minute.

Actually I don't remember if CES was mentioned one way or the other before NSG's case but that does remind me that I do think I did pause briefly when Shea critiqued CES's response to NSG's case wherein he said something along the lines of "CES is answering the same thing twice" or somettinhg and it wasn't really true. lemme go back

thats not what I said, I said that CES' answers to the case were basically that NSGs case is misrepping him or taking things out of context and he tried to use this to invalidate multiple points in the case when I didn't think she was doing either of those things.

[Lycanfire]

like i can just repeat myself in new and interesting ways that usually works

in 1839 I did "acceptable wagon analysis". among the people that posted before davsto's meta case on eddie, ranmaru and lq threw the most shade. ranmaru hit all the active wagons. LQ was laying pain on people that were never being lynched.

lq postie(8)eddie(2) marq (1) gamma(1) dav(1) ran(1)
postie eddie(9) ran(1) shea(1)
ranmaru marquis(4) dan(1) postie(2) eddie(4) lq(4)
eddie lq(1) ces(1) ran(5) marq(3)
dun postie(1)
dav lq(1)

let's compare this to ces' later post on the likelihood of scumflips two pages later

Marquis: 60%

Eddie: 55%

GE: 30%

Postie: 25%

Dunn: 25%

ActionDan: 25%

northsidegal: 20%

LQ: 20%
Davsto: 15%

Lycan: 10%

TSQ: 10%
Ranmaru: 5%

B

= confirmed town

I

= I infer these are towns

Something I've discussed in my Discord this game day is how LQ has never bothered to interact with me directly, and instead discredits me about the modkill, about how I "blame him for what Transcend did" (though I have no idea how LQ could be involved in this in any way, he and his team had nothing to do with it, and we cannot discuss this matter any further). I'm conftown. I can be interacted with. If he panders to me as the tunneling conftown I am, he's more likely to achieve better results than talking over me and discrediting me. LQ is anti-town.

Compare this to how Cogito Ergo Scum reconciled my tunnel. He said I was town at every opportunity since D1. It's out of the classic scum textbook under the chapter "never recognize reasons why you are scummy, and call other people scum". LQ has behaved the same way today with Dunnstral.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think CES would put his teammates in the middle of the pack. He's a geriatric and knows that people will try to find patterns where there are none, and nothing the scumteam has done has been particularly impressive so far.

In addition see how CES wanted Postie EoD1, and still wanted Postie mid-late D2... Let's see LQ's day opener again

VOTE: Eddie

Postie is either bussing or has a good read here in my estimation. Someone who is good at looking at wagons can analyze Eddie's wagon.

I mean there could have been other reasons but I wanted to point out that it makes sense from the PoV of Eddie being scum.

I am going here:

VOTE: Postie

Pretty much everything Postie writes I look at it in a way that RC has basically scripted for her. I can't prove it, but that's how I feel about it. Consider this a gut read.

Since you're here and this was on the first page I clicked on
LQ wtf why are you sheeping me
I mean keep sheeping me but also how did you get from there to here

Yup, that read hasn't changed. I just think you are bussing so we may as well go along with the bus and sort you later.

That quote from Llama wasn't about the kill; I was pointing out how this is one example of many where Eddie is very obviously playing into a scum wincon/mindset and people need to stop overthinking and just lynch him for it already.

Likely to get scum lynched > is townread though. The latter matters in lategame but means very little right now. But whatever I don't care as long as you're voting Eddie.

This is pretty much exactly the kind of playstyle I would expect from RC. I think RC is in large part playing the game for you.

I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it.

I

never

voted them because I wanted to keep discussion going for the day cause I had a feeling that Srcreen was trying to redeem the slot.

Fucking lol

Did you even notice the fact that as soon as he hit L1, he (Screen) was

immediately

POUNCED on?

What I noticed is that as soon as I voted Postie Screen was lynched. Could just be a coincidence tho.

and there's more but i'm not turning the page in his iso, just go look at my "acceptable wagon analysis" above

in 1604 he hops off the eddie wagon

OK, so what I am seeing here is pretty much the same type of thing that happened to Chill and Screen, namely, that there is a single wagon with very little resistance and not really any other wagons to speak of.

I got what I wanted out of the Eddie wagon, so it's time to move on.

I'm going here to see what happens. I have some shallow reasoning for this vote, but it's more just to see what happens:

VOTE: Ranmaru

(holy shit this tchill/screen comparison again, do i have to drop my wagonomics of d1 again & how his team were all for it?)

he makes ranmaru-davsto wagons in the coming pages

Votecount 2.10

EddieFenix(4)

~ Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto, Cogito Ergo Sum

LicketyQuickety(3)

~ Marquis, Gamma Emerald, Ranmaru

Marquis(1)

~ EddieFenix

Dunnstral(1)

~ ActionDan

Davsto(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (2): northsidegal, Dunnstral

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-18 19:30:00)

Sorry for the delay had a lot of work stuff.

LQ gets some votes, later decides to vote marquis with Eddie for some reason (what a helpful readslist!). that's when he goes absent and comes back later asking to hammer.

(reminder that postie died n2)

it wasn't a hammer

if lq genuinely thought he was hammering, we can throw out dunnstral lq and postie lq. still a small chance he was playing dumb. there's no way he misses the unvote with those teammates.

[Lycanfire]

fuck you all for making me effort i don't even want to play this game

[Thestatusquo]

My ces read is basically that CES is being useless but that this doesn't make him scum

. If you look at The first mafia, for instance, he's very similar in my eyes. Hyper focused on weirdly specific parts of the game. Relatively same level of participation in the game by total post count, its similar right down to the hammer graphic he posted in this game. He's a little bit more aggressive in his hyper specific focuses, but that's a pretty small difference in play. Basically I think everyone scum reading ces isn't really bothering to meta him. I'm not saying he's town, as you can see by my read list but I think lockscumming him over other players doesn't make a lot of sense once you look deeper into his meta.

You use the meta to defend him. It would make more sense for you to support his wagon before L-2. Not after.

that post is before his response to the nsg case, which is the thing which I didn't think fit into his town meta. Hence, my read changed. Because I no longer felt he was playing to his town meta. I've said this at least 3 times.

The case happened, he responded. I thought the response was BS and not from town ces, I voted.

[Thestatusquo]

Lycan LQ is fucking town.

[Thestatusquo]

I swear to god if you guys lynch me and then LQ tomorrow to lose what should be an easy victory I am going to be so fucking pissed.

If I die today, promise me its ran tomorrow.

[ActionDan]

My vote on CES, for those who keep saying its "SUS" is because we're at deadline and I thought his reaction to the NSG was horrific. It didn't respond to any of her points. It's main contention was that NSG was simply misunderstanding CES, but I don't think that's fair. It went point by point to make it seem like it was big and full of line by line retorts but it wasn't. It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

Also, anyone who is saying I had a firm town read on him before is DELIBERATELY mistating what I have said before.

I've had him as null town, because of meta, but that meta does not include responses like this. That's not ces town play, and we're at deadline.

If there were a viable wagon on Dunn I would join it, but its not there.

Right this first paragraph isn't correct. CES responded to the vast majority of her points. And quite fairly and well too to most of them. Only on a few did he dissemble.

[Lycanfire]

people i've poed away from lq: postie (dead n2), gamma (pressured sod3), dunnstral (hard pushed d4), ranmaru (he voted him 10 hours ago)

[Thestatusquo]

I disagree strongly with that.

do you really want me to dig through the response to show you all the times he says the same thing?

[Lycanfire]

everyone, i don't think lq can be scum with lq wink wink

[ActionDan]

thats not what I said, I said that CES' answers to the case were basically that NSGs case is misrepping him or taking things out of context and he tried to use this to invalidate multiple points in the case when I didn't think she was doing either of those things.

Yeah, you're right, I just remembered disagreeing at the time but not thinking much of it

[ActionDan]

I mean I still think your assessment was wrong. but shurg.

[Shadoweh]

:/ I really don't want to be choosing between Ran and TSQ, this is ridiculous.

[Lycanfire]

:/ I really don't want to be choosing between Ran and TSQ, this is ridiculous.

you are conveniently online to vote the other scum, dan, how does that make you feel?

[LicketyQuickety]

Can we just lynch Dunn?

[Ranmaru]

I never saw CES's response as a 'bad reaction'. Shea, I'd need you to show why you thought it was bad and suspicious.

[Ranmaru]

:/ I really don't want to be choosing between Ran and TSQ, this is ridiculous.

Can you talk to me about Shea?

[Thestatusquo]

thats not what I said, I said that CES' answers to the case were basically that NSGs case is misrepping him or taking things out of context and he tried to use this to invalidate multiple points in the case when I didn't think she was doing either of those things.

Yeah, you're right, I just remembered disagreeing at the time but not thinking much of it

here is some highlights of why I felt that way, since apparently I'm just going to be useless at work tomorrow anyway:

Outright inaccuracies (I explained my 'marblevote in #870)

Leaving out relevant context (i.e. Marquis was on 5 votes this entire time).

I have talked about the meta point - it was specifically in relation to Marquis' "Please hold as I forward you to a representative"-nonsense; he used a similarly annoying affectation in the linked scum game (albeit for longer). I obviously just gave a summary of my Marquisread in #3095 that I encourage everyone to read but

anyone who's been reading my Day 3 posts with any sort of attention should know your core claim here is just outright false.

If you want to quote meta evidence, actually quote (or link) it because this doesn't pass the smell test and this whole case is long enough that people aren't exactly going to be incentivised to read my iso in another game too.

This manages us to be inaccurate in 3 different ways.

Saying that I "argue[d] that" is an overstatement

But let's take the bigger picture.

And I don't need to respond to section 6 because it's just a summary of the previous stuff. Huzzah, I can go do work now!

I thought the theme was very clear here.

[Lycanfire]

Can we just lynch Dunn?