Micro 792: Three in One (Day 6)

[Mathdino]

You think I'm trying to PL you? Really?

You've taken every opportunity to discredit me for "not playing the game" without addressing how what I'm actually doing is coming from a scum agenda.

All 3 of those things are pro-town. The policy lynches just have extra bonus points because I get to choose who I play with when I likely roll town again.

So yeah, I'm forced to assume that you're voting me because you don't like how I play.

[PenguinPower]

Ok I've solved it Penguin/NM scumteam GG.

At this point, I'm cool to be associated with NM...he's prob town.

Damn there goes my theory. Why NM town? He seems a little stiff to me this game.

Can't say atm...but he's reminding me of town NM. Obv we're in D1 and that can change, but he's not on the table for today.

[Not_Mafia]

NotMaf seems the same as ever. Like a piece of cow dung.

[Something_Smart]

In response to a question I recieved about playing to one’s wincon, I have decided to make the following rule change: the winners are decided by whoever won the most games. I will take full responsinility for any negative ramifications this change causes. But hopefully your win condition should be clear in basically every situation:

your goal should be to win as many games as possible.

Emphasis mine

It is acceptable to take future games into account.

[Mathdino]

Regrettably, both N_M and Bambi are likely town, which doesn't bode well at all for town's chances. Which honestly makes me want to lynch them more.

@Cheeky: Gonna hold off on that reads list for now. I'm pretty tilted after the mistake and Penguin/NSG are messing with my reads. Gonna metadive a bit when activity dies down and I'll come up with something more definitive.

[Bambietta Basterbine]

Regrettably, both N_M and Bambi are likely town, which doesn't bode well at all for town's chances. Which honestly makes me want to lynch them more.

VOTE: Mathdino

Yeah with at least a dozen of your posts mentioning me being PL'd and even wanting to Lynch me anyway when you have the suspicion me and NotMaf are town is horseshit.

[CheekyTeeky]

I've never actually seen scum!NM so I can't compare to scum meta. What I have seen of his town game is usually quite trolly/humourous but his votes always make sense. In contrast, I see him trying a little too hard for what I expect of him and he's voted an inactive slot. I conclude that this must be his scum game since I haven't seen him play like this before.

Do I get extra cred if I say I have never mislynched town NM?

[PenguinPower]

You think I'm trying to PL you? Really?

You've taken every opportunity to discredit me for "not playing the game" without addressing how what I'm actually doing is coming from a scum agenda.

All 3 of those things are pro-town. The policy lynches just have extra bonus points because I get to choose who I play with when I likely roll town again.

So yeah, I'm forced to assume that you're voting me because you don't like how I play.

Oh, no, I don't like how you play. Insulting other players as you have is pretty weak. However, I didn't discredit you (though I think your "optimum" whatever is not), you have explicitly said that you weren't playing the game, and that now your vote on me is only if you "have to play the game." Further, your policy lynches are shit and insulting to the players that are in the game. Grow up a bit.

I'm voting you because you don't seem genuine in your stances at all. Get off your high horse and meta, and come back to the game.

[CheekyTeeky]

Penguin is my second lock town read.

[RedFlavor]

reads for bambi:

Bambi: policy lynchable
Cheeky: bad reads and hard townreads you, is scum pocketing you
Gamma: capable of faking gamesolving, probscum sucking up to me
northsidegal: has posted nothing game relevant, basically scumclaiming
Not_Mafia: policy lynchable with extreme prejudice (although should be kept around depending on how spicy his memes are)
PenguinPower: blanket disapproval of optimal claiming strategy is exactly the kind of scum pushback i get from my gamebreaking
RedFlavor: blatantly chainsaw defending/WKing not_mafia, deserves rope, probably scum
SomethingSmart: honestly he's scummy in every game i've played with him so

does that help at all

Lol

[Mathdino]

Oh, no, I don't like how you play. Insulting other players as you have is pretty weak. However, I didn't discredit you (though I think your "optimum" whatever is not), you have explicitly said that you weren't playing the game, and that now your vote on me is only if you "have to play the game." Further, your policy lynches are shit and insulting to the players that are in the game. Grow up a bit.

I'm voting you because you don't seem genuine in your stances at all. Get off your high horse and meta, and come back to the game.

- I haven't personally attacked anyone, and I draw a line against doing so.

- You did shade me a bunch of times, and I can quote the posts.

- When I say "if we're actually playing the game" I'm being tongue-in-cheek. I've only done things that help town wincon. They just also happen to benefit future wincons. But "the game" literally means scumhunting, which I'd done little of up to that point.

- As a sidenote, telling me to get off my high horse but then in the same post calling my play weak and telling me to "grow up a bit" is just rich.

- I wasn't always this policy lynch-happy. Then my first game since hiatus was lost to Not_Mafia playing his towngame and being as useless as possible while others avoided lynching him. I was a mod-confirmed IC and the town (Including Bambi) speedlynched town before I had the chance to comment.

Bambi has intentionally developed a meta of fakeclaiming TPR every single time they're run up to be lynched. It is actually difficult to get THAT anti-town. They actively brag about how town has never won a LyLo with Bambi present. Not to mention they're incredibly easily pocketable, a trait that Not_Mafia and I exploited to the point where I got Bambi to lynch town 5 times in a row while I was the sole mafia left.

They've stated a desire to improve but have specifically expressed 0 regret for constantly fakeclaiming and drawing counterclaims as town. That, to me, is more policy lynchable than Not_Mafia, who can be good when he actually gives a shit about the game. Me policy lynching Not_Mafia is more of a meme at this point (I actually like him a lot as a user), and I think I'm at the point where I can read him. I don't have that much confidence in him picking correctly in LyLos, but that obviously just means we should lynch scum before then.

You can't seem to decide whether I'm town playing in a way you dislike (which would explain you telling me how to play differently) or just scum who doesn't genuinely believe any of my stances (in which case you STILL haven't explained the scum motivation in any of my actions).

[Mathdino]

Regrettably, both N_M and Bambi are likely town, which doesn't bode well at all for town's chances. Which honestly makes me want to lynch them more.

VOTE: Mathdino

Yeah with at least a dozen of your posts mentioning me being PL'd and even wanting to Lynch me anyway when you have the suspicion me and NotMaf are town is horseshit.

N_M I'm legitimately reading as town. You might have to be town by PoE considering I definitely have stronger scumreads elsewhere. I have no read on you but you're literally probabilistically more likely to be town.

The problem is that if you're both town, I stand significantly less chance of winning, so part of me wants to just throw in the towel, lynch one of you, and hope for a better game next time.

[Mathdino]

All it would take for me to stop trying to policy lynch Bambi at this point is a definitive statement that they promise to stop lying as town to avoid getting lynched. I don't count having bad reads and being easily pocketable as at all policy lynchable in itself. I've been there, and they're enjoyable to have in game.

But seeing as they've expressed 0 regret at brazenly anti-town play, here I am, trying to policy lynch them again. It just becomes a less fun game when you always have to worry about whether Bambi is fucking up town wincon and laughing about it.

[Bambietta Basterbine]

Still technically ongoing, so no mentioning of that specfic part, Dino.

For the rest, you forgot to mention the two times I did it - once as scum and once as town - it worked out well because it helped my Alignment with me not being the Lynch.

My JaydragonKing wiki is still mostly up to date so you can look at any of my games, for those curious about what he is talking about.

--- P-Edit ---

God damnit Dino,play to win anyway even if the chances of victory are small. My vote is staying where it is, but now your getting me fricken huffy and I'm tunneling on you. I can feel it.

Got to read see if I can get a different scum lean.

[Mathdino]

I'm referring to JK9++. 55% of the time it would've gotten you counterclaimed, mislynched, and gotten a hypothetical real vig killed.

If you were going to fakeclaim to avoid getting lynched in that scenario, vig wasn't even the correct choice. Rolecop was.

[Something_Smart]

You might have to be town by PoE considering I definitely have stronger scumreads elsewhere.

don't play this game

[Errantparabola]

I will offer the following

: I would not generally consider someone pushing a "policy lynch" to be playing against wincon in a regular game. Regardless of my personal opinions of the matter, a policy lynch can often be interpreted as in pursuit of increasing chances of winning in the end of that regular game.

However, any move that is made with clear intent to

lower

their chances of winning in the current game in the interest of

raising

their chances of winning in a future game will be interpreted to be playing against wincon. I understand that this is a grey area and always will be, and whether or not a move is made with that intention will be given the same leniency of subjectivity as any regular game would.

--

EDIT: I'd like to apologize once again for any murkiness that has been caused by the unconventional nature of this game. My goal is always to make sure that no one feels like they are being treated unfairly.

[CheekyTeeky]

Bambi what are your reads so far?

[RedFlavor]

have pushed a lot of strategies in open games and your reaction is most similar to scum reactions in my experience

elaborate pls

Check the game linked in Math's sig (the thing about economics wonderland) and check what cy flipped

Lol that game

I was going to make a better post but I will make it 9 hours later

For now,
VOTE: bambietta

[Mathdino]

I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.

Does anyone remember that time momo modded an Open and had to warn Tonereader?

Anyway, spicy hot reads list incoming after I confirm a few things re: meta.

[northsidegal]

I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.

i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.

[CheekyTeeky]

I definitely have stronger scumreads elsewhere

Enlighten me.

[Mathdino]

oh my god

this was in another tab but i left before i finished this post

Math, NSG reacted in a somewhat similar way... so why is she so strongly town?

wait fuck i mixed up

i thought i explained the mixup already

is why i was all weirded out about NSG's weirded-out-ness

okay i actually do think NSG is town *for now*

N_Mtown/NSGtown leaves
Smart-town pending meta review
Penguin-scum
Bambi-lynchable
Gamma-unreadable
CT-too soon to tell but i will ISO this in a bit
Red I'm actually not locking a read on yet, but I also forgot Polygamist ever happened, so rereading that will be a fantastic meta reminder.

Edit: tfw two dozen PEdits

[CheekyTeeky]

Does anyone remember that time momo modded an Open and had to warn Tonereader?

Were you in that game? At first I thought it was a similar scenario, but I don't think it was quite as blatantly AI. You bringing it up as a reason to TR you makes it void and somewhat scummy.

[CheekyTeeky]

I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.

i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.

I disagree. I think EP brought it up in a very objective way that doesn't confirm Math's alignment. The point was that Penguin thought it against the spirit of the game and against the rules and EP clarified it was not. It was more a response to EP than a response to Math pushing PLs in the first place.