Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Hiraki]

Is English your first language? Not trying to be mean here. You just are assuming so much that's not there.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Is English your first language? Not trying to be mean here. You just are assuming so much that's not there.

It is not.

[Hiraki]

So you agree that you are borrowing points.

Where did I agree to that in this quote?

[Kiana Kaslana]

So you agree that you are borrowing points.

Where did I agree to that in this quote?

Are you kidding me at this point.

You are being overly semantic and I will let the others do the judging if I am misreading and at fault here or if they agree with me that you are trying to weasel out of these accusations.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually not that thing but the "I don't need to rework my reads" thing I'd felt you were doing
stil feel like he's being a hypocrite

Can you please show everyone where you see this in Hiraki's posts so that we all can verify. Successful verification of scummy behavior from Hiraki means that his townpoints will be taken away and sent to your credit.

When he said "I don't need to sort out, I already did that". I was wrong about him attacking you for that though. He did attack you for the first thing I'd noted though

[Kiana Kaslana]

Actually not that thing but the "I don't need to rework my reads" thing I'd felt you were doing
stil feel like he's being a hypocrite

Can you please show everyone where you see this in Hiraki's posts so that we all can verify. Successful verification of scummy behavior from Hiraki means that his townpoints will be taken away and sent to your credit.

When he said "I don't need to sort out, I already did that". I was wrong about him attacking you for that though. He did attack you for the first thing I'd noted though

I cannot parse this post. Can you rephrase.

[Hiraki]

Fair. I think you are just misunderstanding what I am saying on a high level and taking things that aren't there.

And no, I'm not kidding, considering that seems to be the basis of your current argument.

[Gamma Emerald]

Kiana is there a certain thing driving this push or is it a body-of-work thing where his push is borrowed from others

[StefanB]

I have to say I didn't find that much about Bu that was scummy that I though.
More a few highlights:

I really think arch is jester here. He's just too scummy.

Could be defend of Archwing, if Archwing was his buddy.

Kokichi: Comes out a bit strange.

Koki is policy lynch material. You really have a talent for walking on the fence of scummy/NAI.

What do you think of Kokichi? I find it difficult to ignore scummy things just because people tell me x player always does this.

First implies that he thinks Kokichi should die even if town, second implies he believes he is scum.

Okay between that his reaction to Makis 296

This is the correct interpretation of what happened. Anyone disagreeing is twisting facts or misunderatanding.

Is for me a bit strong.

His reaction to Kiana I think comes of as not really sincere:
In 453 he states about Kiana:

The mention of daychat in general can easily be faked. Here Kiana sounds like she's getting lost in her own anxiousness to find connections. That also can be faked though admittedly harder. So I wouldn't personally read into it much. But yes if she ignores the correction and doesn't rethink her reads it would look scummy. Do you have reason to think she checked the thread after you corrected her?

Doesn't imho not really fit together with his later defence of Kiana system.

The strong townread on Kaito.

After I questioned him, why he thought gamma was silent, when Gamma had a lot of posts

More posts does not necessarily mean more content.
In this game most activity occurs while I sleep/ work so naturally my posts are going to be more condensed as I have more stuff to comment on.
At the time of me posting that comment gamma's activity had dropped and he himself knows it but he gave an explanation for it. So I don't know why you're hounding me for that.

Comes of as quite defensive.

And then his vote on Hiraki, which I wrote earlier about.

What I don't find scummy:
Him voting a stronger scumread while there is a waggon on the smaller one. This will be more important when we get nearer to the deadline.

Not important, but huh: "copying from your neighbours" I really looked up, to find the original post, because that phrase kind of implied that Hiraki had a QT.

My problem is I see Bu in a lot of scumpairs that can't be all right, and their is a gutscumfelling that may be driven by paranoia.

[Hiraki]

Stefan, what's your read on Kaina? I have a hard time keeping up my SR if I've found out that her English just plain isn't good.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't need to sort out - I've already done that. I think I've made that pretty clear. Otherwise I would've changed my vote by now.

Of course you still need to sort out: your reads shouldn't be unchanging.
Also you may have just sealed your fate with this objection

This is what I feel is scummy from Hiraki and what I thought he'd criticized you for

If my other pet theory that I have caught scum correctly and the remaining scum is purely chainsaw defending (which means to say, they are hard attacking me to discredit my pushes) is correct, perhaps I was wrong about it being Gamma Emerald. Hiraki is performing the same thing, perhaps more egregiously, but I have only been giving him a free pass thanks to brassherald's townpoints.

Those townpoints are quickly being spent.

What's striking me about Hiraki is I think he also criticized your system but he's also doing the "anyone who disagrees is scum" thing.

But he did criticize you for the thing I thought he did here in a sense

[Kiana Kaslana]

Kiana is there a certain thing driving this push or is it a body-of-work thing where his push is borrowed from others

It is a body-of-work thing. I am not so much concerned that his push is borrowed from others, it's not scummy by itself, but I'm bothered by the fact that he is lying then being pedantic to defend him self. Apart from that the unexplained scumread on me, almost toeing the line into opportunistic voting, then refusal to respond to others meaningfully.

All of these net him scumpoints and so now brassherald's townpoints are in the negative.

[StefanB]

First before I answer anythink as public service:

Inofical vote-count should be correct if there aren't any suprises left:

Archwing

(3, L-4): Kokichi Oma, Kiana Kaslana, Kaito Momota

Kiana Kaslana

(5, L-2): StefanB, Archwing, Hiraki, Raskolnikov, Cedric

Wh4t

(1, L-6): Beefster

Hiraki

(5, L-2): Bujaber, Maki Harukawa, Wh4t, Gamma Emmerald, Hiraki

[Kiana Kaslana]

I don't need to sort out - I've already done that. I think I've made that pretty clear. Otherwise I would've changed my vote by now.

Of course you still need to sort out: your reads shouldn't be unchanging.
Also you may have just sealed your fate with this objection

This is what I feel is scummy from Hiraki and what I thought he'd criticized you for

If my other pet theory that I have caught scum correctly and the remaining scum is purely chainsaw defending (which means to say, they are hard attacking me to discredit my pushes) is correct, perhaps I was wrong about it being Gamma Emerald. Hiraki is performing the same thing, perhaps more egregiously, but I have only been giving him a free pass thanks to brassherald's townpoints.

Those townpoints are quickly being spent.

What's striking me about Hiraki is I think he also criticized your system but he's also doing the "anyone who disagrees is scum" thing.

But he did criticize you for the thing I thought he did here in a sense

Hiraki didn't criticize me for anything, as a matter of fact. His scumread materialized out of thin air.

His two "scumpoints" given to me were:

This reeks of a buss.

and

This makes no sense if you actually read the post. This entire point is that is that Stefan has gained scumpoints because he's not thinking like Kiana. Not only is this absurd but it treats Stefan's post as if it was a plot without reading the post. I'm pretty sure when Kiana read this post, she read the unvote and the turned her brain off. Here's the post for reference: [snip] It's absolutely absurd. I'm not sure if this is scum aligned anymore but it is terrible posting either way.

Then he voted me. It is very strange indeed.

[Gamma Emerald]

In post 521, Kiana Kaslana wrote:

I don't like how two townreads of mine are currently voting for me. As far as it stands this is effectively bad play.

This is really egotistical and gave me the worst headache to read. I genuinely think there's a decent chance your lynch is a mislynch but this shit isn't helping. Head says scum here, gut says town.

This is what I mean by Hiraki criticizing you

[Gamma Emerald]

But yeah that progression feels pretty stinky

[StefanB]

Stefan, what's your read on Kaina? I have a hard time keeping up my SR if I've found out that her English just plain isn't good.

Oh I am still scumreading her, I could copy and past everythink about it, if I need to do so.

[Hiraki]

No, I'm just thrown off a little. If I can't handle a small thing like "where did I say borrowing was scummy", then how on Earth can I read her in general?

Even her current post shows two actually scummy things and she just uses them against me as if there's nothing wrong with them. Like ok? Worse than Maki who will at least acknowledge existence.

[Kiana Kaslana]

In post 521, Kiana Kaslana wrote:

I don't like how two townreads of mine are currently voting for me. As far as it stands this is effectively bad play.

This is really egotistical and gave me the worst headache to read. I genuinely think there's a decent chance your lynch is a mislynch but this shit isn't helping. Head says scum here, gut says town.

This is what I mean by Hiraki criticizing you

Wow, I didn't notice this before.

Hiraki says there is a decent chance I'm a mislynch but he is still vote parking on me. Hmm. Gives him an out after I flip town.

He also says "Head says scum, gut says town". But he has 0 logical reasonings for scumreading me, otherwise it would be just easy to articulate a logical read. It should technically be the other way round to make it seem natural: "Head says town, gut says scum" would be natural, but what he said was not. So, was he lying and coming up with a fallback after I flipped town?

Plus, he said that he found me scummy because he "agreed with other people". So, the other people are to blame if I flip town, and he is blameless? Hmm...

[Hiraki]

Yes, use a post that I made during catch-up and ignore the rest of my postings. That'll work! Wasn't like nothing happened in between!

[Kiana Kaslana]

Yes, use a post that I made during catch-up and ignore the rest of my postings. That'll work! Wasn't like nothing happened in between!

But we are wondering what led you to vote on me in the first place. Because it means that your vote preceeds the rest of your postings. Apparently your "scumread" on me from your first catch up was strong enough to have you hop on the largest wagon, possibly opportunistically, before anything "in-between" even existed. What if I had been lynched? What if I flipped town and it's night now and discussion like what we're having right now gets cut off early. Surely you had those consequences in mind at the time of that post. Why vote?

[BuJaber]

@Stefan: I don't see what's so strange about my koki stance. I can scumread and think someone is a policy lynch at the same time.

I don't understand the point you're making about my Kiana posts.

I explained that Kaito was a mistake. I thought he had more posts at the time. I ISO'd him and corrected his position on the list.

The rest seem to be subjective things so that's your opinion.

[StefanB]

Bu:
About Koki fair enough, you just started with policity lynch and than strong attacked he is scum. I found that noteworthy.
About Kaito I found it worth pointing out, I know that you said it was a mistake but that one is imho a strange mistake.

About Kiana you were one of the few persons who liked her system and her early posts, which of her scum or townpoints do you think were good ones?

[Archwing]

alright gonna start catching up and posting shit as I see it. so, spam is incoming. sorry, i prefer to post-by-post instead of walls, cause i don't read walls.

bear with me. I'll check updated replies as I go along... can anyone tldr the last couple IRL days? is stef's VC accurate? Kiana @ l-2?

[Archwing]

end of page 25, koki is annoying, but sadly he's town. wh4t looks pretty bad. Hikari's entrance is good, but i'm null reading for the moment.