Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Jimmy for that hammer.

Lean town on Shad.

I need to reread game from beginning. Too much time away from this game.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE:
fuck me up this is locktown

i need to check with the mod on something

Guys, trust me on this. You're better off wagoning elsewhere. I'm 95% sure Shadpearl is town and about 50% sure they'll have to be modkilled for it. Like I feel bad for things influencing my reads but w/e.

Coming back to this once mod takes a look.

[Kopherald]

Is flavor leaf awate he still has a vote on himself?

Null: Texcat, jaydragonking, havingfitz, sando

Scum: Mathdino, Flavor Leaf

Town: Kopherald, Almost50, JaydragonKing, creature, taly, lalendra, ausuka, profii

@profii you have a point, on second thought it sounds like a guarantee that flavor leaf is using an action tonight. So tracker don't track him, of course you'll see something

The quickhammer plus this read list itself makes me pretty okay with thinking Jimmy is scum.

He just escaped my notice because he replaced in so late and blockcandy literally did not post either, his scumreads are just the people who had just replaced in, and for me, at least, Math has done wonders for that slot since coming in.

VOTE: JimmyUrineShot

-Brass

[Shadpearl]

@Post #776

???

Did I break a rule? ( '. .)

[Mathdino]

I don't hold it against you, but if anything it's just a showcase of the danger of talking about ongoing games. Like I currently have information I don't think many others have and that affects the game a lot when I was originally scumreading you.

[Shadpearl]

Oh. I thought it was the pictures. I was kinda following Anen's lead with whether those were ok or not. x)

Also I'll hold off on posting for a bit I guess? >_>; Sorry for the interruption! Back to your lives citizens!

[davesaz]

Gotta look into something

[davesaz]

Replacing Mathdino.
Please do not speculate on the events which led to it.

General reminder, do not refer to other games, even in passing.
Sorry about the delay, was waiting for advice on exactly what to say here... I decided to just go ahead and do my best.

[Ausuka]

sucks to be Mathdino I guess?

shadpearl is town for this so

UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

Preemptive prod dodge

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, Shadpearl, Mathdino, Creture, Aneninen

Almost50, Taly

Sando, profii, havingfitz, texcat, Kopherald

JimmyUrineMoneyShot

I'm probably gonna try to reread the oranges because I need to town some of them.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Jimmy

[Almost50]

Replacing Mathdino.

.... (no comment)

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

Actually

VOTE: Jimmy

[Taly]

I'm not behind a lynch on

Almost50

today because of the doc-claim. We've already lost 2 docs.

Anyway, time to look back and read from

Page 22

about all my comments and things I missed.

Mathdino is getting a special ISO in a post soon. Many things caught my attention and I didn't like most of it. But he's being replaced out, so I'm not pushing there just yet.

Sorta bad to come in just to say my gut is starting to think Taly is scum.

Sometimes I'm thinking the same.

I associative read Taly scum, but I'm not seeing much isolated scum behaviour from Taly. I just feel his anti-wagons are...off.

Please talk to me about how voting

Jay

and holding off on

TheGoldenParadox

until a replacement came, is being anti-wagon.

Furthermore, if the above statement misinterprets your post; then let me know why

Jay

was an odd option to push.

The idea that Creature of all people things we should read replacements as NAI, that we should stop pressuring a scummy looking replacement, and that havingfitz not posting while VLA... seems hypocritical at best.

Oooook, back from coffee and reread this, apparently I should have waited:

The idea that Creature of all people

thinks

we should read replacements as NAI, that we should stop pressuring a scummy looking replacement

slot

, and that havingfitz not posting while VLA

is a sign of scummy

... seems hypocritical at best.

After some thought, I feel more confident in my townread of Creature.

I don't get this doubtcast on

Creature's

motives though, without a push.

Oh look, more OMGUS from Creature...colour me surprised.

That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen from A50, but a claim is a claim and I think we'll sort that out in the coming days.

TGP slot would be my second individually scummy slot but we're waiting on a replacement.

Shadpearl is probably third for me: Sando416 is where I'm coming from there for the most part.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadpearl

1)

Hate that Creature was boiled down to being OMGUS here even though he tried to start a productive wagon 522

((Even more salty that NOBODY followed suit on the JaydragonKing wagon except for Aneninen who had been voting him; which makes me feel like he's town... and his pigeons too. Jay deserved a wagon with his gameplay and replies.))

2)

"We'll sort that in the coming days" Love the doubtcast on a claim, though.

((Sarcasm))

But, you didn't seem to have a comment when

Flavor Leaf

did it and he was getting quickwagoned. 637

Hi, it's me, Brass, and I am here to share my infinite wisdom with you.

There are so many replacements. Is this normal for big games?

I'm on my phone so no walls from me.

I like the idea of keeping pressure, but is it really going to do anything? It seems like vote pushing just isn't working. There are too many divided players and too many people throwing away their votes. Idk quite what to do about this. Never had this problem before.

I think Almost50 is crazy, lol. Although, from the outside looking in, his posts are perfect because I can't make up my mind if he's terrible scum or the ballsiest townie I've ever seen

Sando, I'm just new and town. Sorry. Not more exciting. You are welcome to wagon me. If it gets the game moving, it's all good I suppose. I'd like to be town together though.

In my opinion, Sando is basically the only person I currently DON'T think is a possible killer. And profii, on the outside.
2 semi-discovered!
13 to go!

Last Note, continuously hopping from one vote to another is tiresome.

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom has been expended. I'll be back eventually.

-Brass

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom tells me that stating something wrong about a post and then not following it up is odd.

Spoiler: All The Reasons I Hated TheGoldenParadox Wagon When I Was Gone

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox
If we're not getting replacements, I'd prefer to lynch this slot.

Alright then. Paradox was gone for longer and his exit was super shitty, so I can definitely interpret it as scum. I'm up for any other options suggested though.

VOTE: Paradox slot

Seriously guys, there are sixteen slots here. Atleast half of us should be talking.

Lynching one of the slots that left is the optimal play, both were being scum read pretty universally.

I still think TGP who asked to be replaced out 4 days ago, should be the lynch. For good measure, because I'm not positive we are voting.
VOTE: Paradox slot

-Brass

^^^

These votes were less than 10 posts apart. I know

Jay

flipped scum, but

texcat

and

Kopherald

were fast here.

Also, less than 10 posts later, why didn't a doc-claim make you guys question keeping the vote on him?

If you think Flavour Leaf can't be town, you should hammer.

By the way, I don't think Taly's lurking.

Yeah, no more than a few hours after 506-

Taly

had flat tires, and car troubles.
2 exams to study for.
Relationship revelations.
Something that shook his self-esteem for a bit.
Alongside some other life stuff happening.

And forgot about Mafia for several days.

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Are you suggesting scum is setting you up for a mislynch...?

I think that's a very good possibility.

1)

My wagon/push target on

JaydragonKing

flipped scum, and I was the only person on that wagon at the end of the day.

Someone could say that I was bussing J

ay

or half-assedly wagoning him for distance. 745 Or, minimize my reasons for going on said push, without fully asking why 749

2)

I made a strong push against TheGoldenParadox slot prior to his replacement coming, and I didn't follow up on anything until after his mislynch.

He flipped Town Doc. Do I have to continue?

3)

Near the ending of D1, people were beginning to scumread me. 507 - 600 are examples.

Why would I be a good NK target at all? But since I've been vocal and pushing the game whenever I AM active here; why not try and push me? Not that I'm saying people shouldn't, but this sounds like an easy case tbh.

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

But, seeing as how my read of TGP was so damn bad yesterday, I am reevaluating all reads based on content throughout day 2, and hopefully Kop-head can overcome me-head's tendency to lead to mislynches.

-Brass

I was going to bed right when I posted that... Nice to see the assumption that that's the ONLY reason I wanted him gone.

But even if that was the only reason I had, is that really a bad reason to push or scumread someone?

Honestly,

JaydragonKing

outright dismissing me is a huge scumtell in my eyes. At the time,

TheGoldenParadox

sounded amazing for a lynch, but I was pretty consistent with my stance on

JaydragonKing

.

1)

433 - 438 Followed by his revote on

TheGoldenParadox

slot later, he literally sheeped anyone when it wasn't him on a wagon. His votes were opportunistic, and held no value beyond

"oh, it's deflecting from the push on me!"

I even brought that up in 468. My pressure vote was NOT one-dimensional.

2)

307 In hindsight, he blatantly misrepped me here. He lopped me and

Creature

in the category of lynching him, while I wasn't sold on a lynch with him yet as of my ISO in 365 I even attempted to engage with him in 406, but he never listened.

He appeared more like scum with each post, and I stated that I was comfortable with my vote in light of

TheGoldenParadox

replacing out.

First glance suggests Taly's entire push on Jay was mad distancing. No canvassing for votes, explicitly stated it was a pressure vote to get Jay to do something. I don't actually think his case on Jay was alignment indicative.
VOTE: Taly

My first glance suggested that Taly might be the SK.

Yup. Game solved.

I

TOTALLY

killed off the person I was wagoning and calling out.

((More Sarcasm))

As for the game currently, my reads are up in the air at the moment.

You pushed TGP hard and over your other reads because the flip gave you more information...now you're "up in the air"?

Um, yeah? I'm stating why I feel a flip from TheGoldenParadox would be more telling based off already stated knowledge.

I think TheGoldenParadox's lynch would give a lot more information.

I was confused by the initial flip of

TheGoldenParadox

, and

Lalendra's

NK.

But the more I'm rereading the thread, the stronger my reads are becoming.

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Given we know which team made each NK, are you confident that scum killed Lal to create a mislynch and that she didn't just give off doc vibes.

I've not read Lal's ISO to see if there is some kind of crumb, but I think scum would get really lucky to be in a position to pick a PR target that also creates a mis-lynch, I'd expect them to have to go for 1 agenda or the other (assuming there was a crumb they picked up on ofc)

So the fact you think you've been setup quite early in the game-day, means yours will be the first ISO I review once I get a bit of time, consider this FOS for now.

Lalendra

never gave a crumb IMO. If she did, it was extremely subtle. Something tells me that

Flavor Leaf

townreading her; alongside much of the other town, myself included, was what lead to her NK.

She was also probably mislynch bait D1, and it's possible scum thought she'd be easy to go after. Though, when that didn't happen, she was killed off.

Please, ISO me. I WANT people to engage with me.

~~~

Didn't like

Jimmy's

hammer at all, and I don't get their reads much either.

I want to see him react to the present votes though.

[Kopherald]

Taly, regarding your question to this slot about why I didn't unvote, I incorrectly scumread TGP from pretty early on. I just looked at the claim from Flavour and the hammer afterwards, during that time, I didn't check this game during that time, I left for my in-law's house around noon that day, the claim came a half hour later, I got home at 9, hammer was already done.

Kop was also not around this weekend.

Also, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question earlier, I'm satisfied with the response.

-Brass

[profii]

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

[Sando]

Please talk to me about how voting Jay and holding off on TheGoldenParadox until a replacement came, is being anti-wagon.

You can't be serious? We'd had a long talk about TGP vs A50, and I specifically said I didn't like your anti-wagon there. Here I'll quote myself for you:

This is my concern, that Taly is leading us off the A50 train onto TGP to at least get a mislynch out of his partner. I don't like someone looking at their two scummiest reads and being so indignant at the idea of lynching one of them over the other.

1) Hate that Creature was boiled down to being OMGUS here even though he tried to start a productive wagon 522

How was this productive? How was what I said out of line with my previous discussion with Creature about OMGUS? How was creatures wagon well reasoned and not OMGUS?

2) "We'll sort that in the coming days" Love the doubtcast on a claim, though. ((Sarcasm)) But, you didn't seem to have a comment when Flavor Leaf did it and he was getting quickwagoned. 637

Yeah, cause, you know, associative tells and all...My last post of the day was ~45 minutes after FL claimed, and I wasn't voting him, and was engaged with Mathdino at the time. I was then away during the subsequent wagon. No votes had changed in that time.

Taly taking credit for Jay's scumflip along with basic incomprehension of this strikes me as extremely scummy.

VOTE: Taly

[Sando]

So the scumkill on Lalendra is interesting from a Mathdino reread.

Mathdino would fairly easily qualify as a townleader at end of D1, so either:

1) Scum thought the town-flip would destroy his credibility
2) Scum thought he'd continue to townlead so killed off a townread of his
3) They doc-hunted successfully
4) Mathdino is scum

I don't think 1 is particularly likely with a player like Mathdino. ISOing Mathdino on Lalendra he never came close to townreading him, null at best and I'd say leaning scum. Given Lalendra was backup doc and had no indication they'd have doc power until post flip, I'm not sure 3 is anything more than luck. That leaves 4 as the logical answer.

Anything could be the answer though, they could have VT-read Mathdino and thus simply excluded and ignored him from the hunt, rendering it null, or many other possibilities. But I'm giving scumpoints to Mathdino-slot for both not dying and Lalendra being NKd.

[texcat]

^^^ These votes were less than 10 posts apart. I know Jay flipped scum, but texcat and Kopherald were fast here.

Also, less than 10 posts later, why didn't a doc-claim make you guys question keeping the vote on him?

I don't know what you mean by fast here. I was the first of the three. And while there may have been few posts before the claim, it was at least hours. As I was catching up and read the claim, I was considering where to move my vote, but then came to the selfvote, and decided to leave it.

[havingfitz]

shadpearl is town for this so

how?

[Ausuka]

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

This post makes like 0 sense to me. Taly is scum because he doesn't think doom or A50 is scum anymore on d2?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
I get the feeling that I'm wrong about Jimmy and there's probably 2-3 scum in my orange zone.

[Ausuka]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

[Sando]

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

This post makes like 0 sense to me. Taly is scum because he doesn't think doom or A50 is scum anymore on d2?

Makes sense to me, especially the A50 part.

A50 and TGP get into rival wagons
Taly comes along with "nah despite them both being super scummy, we should only lynch TGP today"
TGP is lynched and flips town
Taly no longer finds A50 scummy

I mean my statement about Taly (which you haven't responded to, just profii's and then lumped me in with) derailing A50 wagon onto TPG is followed very nicely by now no longer scumreading A50. Makes perfect sense from an A50+Taly scum perspective.