Micro 792: Three in One (Day 6)

[Something_Smart]

It has to make sense for scum-me to progress on you like that.

why

[Mathdino]

It has to make sense for scum-me to progress on you like that.

why

Because if it doesn't make sense for scum-me to progress on NSG like that, then her scumread on me is no bueno.

[Mathdino]

So you're saying that scum-me drops scumreads because they scumread me back, and so I go find someone else to antagonise?

i'm saying that scum you drops scumreads because it's clear that the scumread is hurting you more than anyone else. i mean, that's pretty much exactly how you've described your scumgame before – political.

1. Do you believe I intend to lynch you today?

2. Do you believe town-Mathdino thinks he can read you easily?

it seems that way, and yes.

Do you think that scum-Mathdino thinks you're a viable mislynch?

You're right that my scumgame (and my towngame, you left that out) is political. You've played in both my most indicative scumgames lately, and IIRC, you read Jester Nightless.

Did you get the impression that my scum strategy was to shop around for scumreads until I found one that didn't draw suspicion on me?

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah the progression from Penguin is the worst. NSG if you didn't beetlejuice so much I'd call you town for that observation.

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I don't know if a {Math, Penguin} team is feasible. N_M is acting straight up weird. {Penguin, NM} makes sense but feels too easy.

NSG I'm not removing my vote until you give comments on others, pretty please. What do you think of Gamma/SS/Bambi so far?

[northsidegal]

Do you think that scum-Mathdino thinks you're a viable mislynch?

You're right that my scumgame (and my towngame, you left that out) is political. You've played in both my most indicative scumgames lately, and IIRC, you read Jester Nightless.

Did you get the impression that my scum strategy was to shop around for scumreads until I found one that didn't draw suspicion on me?

i wouldn't doubt it.

what scumgames are you referring to besides anything upick? i skimmed jester nightless.

i know your scumgame to be political – i couldn't tell you specifically if that exactly is something you've done before but given that i'd characterize it as being "political" i don't think it could be used as a point against you being scum.

[northsidegal]

Yeah the progression from Penguin is the worst. NSG if you didn't beetlejuice so much I'd call you town for that observation.

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I don't know if a {Math, Penguin} team is feasible. N_M is acting straight up weird. {Penguin, NM} makes sense but feels too easy.

NSG I'm not removing my vote until you give comments on others, pretty please. What do you think of Gamma/SS/Bambi so far?

what does "beetlejuice" mean?

i didn't mention any of those three because i don't really have much that's meaningful to say there. gamma seems exactly the same as always – there haven't been any serious stretches of logic from him that have pinged me but i won't pretend like i actually read terror in the city enough to make a good comparison off the top of my head of his scumgame vs here.

smart has just kind of been here. i don't really remember any of his posts, honestly.

bambietta hasn't been hilariously obviously scum like in vengeful but i don't think it'd be a good idea to base any real reads off of that.

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah the progression from Penguin is the worst. NSG if you didn't beetlejuice so much I'd call you town for that observation.

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I don't know if a {Math, Penguin} team is feasible. N_M is acting straight up weird. {Penguin, NM} makes sense but feels too easy.

NSG I'm not removing my vote until you give comments on others, pretty please. What do you think of Gamma/SS/Bambi so far?

what does "beetlejuice" mean?

i didn't mention any of those three because i don't really have much that's meaningful to say there. gamma seems exactly the same as always – there haven't been any serious stretches of logic from him that have pinged me but i won't pretend like i actually read terror in the city enough to make a good comparison off the top of my head of his scumgame vs here.

smart has just kind of been here. i don't really remember any of his posts, honestly.

bambietta hasn't been hilariously obviously scum like in vengeful but i don't think it'd be a good idea to base any real reads off of that.

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

[CheekyTeeky]

Well that's too simplistic,

Beetlejuicing is when saying your name makes you appear?

[CheekyTeeky]

But... there are more town than scum... so a random person with no information is more likely to be town.

Is this a reason not to scumread me?

This is the worst post from SS. The rest seem fine?

[Something_Smart]

Because if it doesn't make sense for scum-me to progress on NSG like that, then her scumread on me is no bueno.

I mean, scum can do things that don't make sense...

[Something_Smart]

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

Or when people start talking about you.

[Mathdino]

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I mean I don't think that's wholly inaccurate but I also don't see how telling me I'm trying to metaread everyone is a criticism of my play? I've been on kind of a meta kick lately across the board. Part of it I think is talking to Ellibereth about townplay.

Incoming self-defence that's more trying to help you see how I play:

I use meta primarily to nullify tells and reads, not to pinpoint people as town or scum.

So my general thought process is something like:
- Oh shit, Something_Smart is doing a ton of things that are SuperTown.
- But Smart is a really good/experienced player... he could probably fake those as scum.
- Okay, I'll metadive his scumgames to see if he can fake that kind of content easily. (I didn't read his towngames at all, because I was trying to nullify a towntell, not a scumtell)
- Doesn't look like he creates that kind of content effortlessly as scum. He's probably town here.

Same thing with Red:
- Red is making a bunch of nuanced posts that read like he's coming at things from a town perspective.
- I've played 2 scumgames with Red, and skimming those ISOs, he comes across as an actual crazy person.
- Stands to reason that he's not scum here, because he can't fake that content.

Then consider NSG:
- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.
- I know her towngame, and her gameplay this early game is not something I've seen before from town-NSG.
- Doesn't look like it's just NAI null shit, so she's probably scum here.

My reads come from the game I'm in. Then I get paranoid as to whether what I'm reading is just a NAI nulltell. So I go check their meta and see if their behaviour is something I should expect from them all the time.

You were literally just read incorrectly by meta in the game we just played together. From that, I can reasonably argue that you shift your meta effortlessly, and, as scum, are steps ahead of your previous scumgames. It would be idiotic for me to go and metaread you when that's exactly how people got you wrong in that game. So my read on you has been solely based on this game.

[Mathdino]

Because if it doesn't make sense for scum-me to progress on NSG like that, then her scumread on me is no bueno.

I mean, scum can do things that don't make sense...

But *I* don't do things against my win condition.

Even if I were scum, winning this game is not my win condition.

[northsidegal]

- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.

you keep saying this, but it keeps not being true.

[Mathdino]

what scumgames are you referring to besides anything upick? i skimmed jester nightless.

Creature's bastard micro?

Where I tunneled a single player for the entire portion of the post-RVS game.

[northsidegal]

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?

[CheekyTeeky]

OK thank you for enlightening me to your process and the subtle flattery. I will ask though, if Bambi is in your blindspot (assuming this because she's not in your meta example list) then why aren't you pushing her?

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?

Gut. Almost doubt = zero gut. Also, he's the only person I've created a case on and he will not provide me with any further content at this point so I'm comfortable sitting there while penguin and Math do their thing. I'm very willing to jump on a penguin wagon at this point. Should we get one started?

[northsidegal]

Almost doubt = zero gut.

it took me

far

longer than it should have to understand this.

Also, he's the only person I've created a case on and he will not provide me with any further content at this point so I'm comfortable sitting there while penguin and Math do their thing. I'm very willing to jump on a penguin wagon at this point. Should we get one started?

i still think math is more likely to be scum, honestly – i'd like to see more of how penguin progresses from here first.

[Something_Smart]

Even if I were scum, winning this game is not my win condition.

It would be a necessary part of it.

[Mathdino]

OK thank you for enlightening me to your process and the subtle flattery. I will ask though, if Bambi is in your blindspot (assuming this because she's not in your meta example list) then why aren't you pushing her?

Didn't realise it was flattery, but you're welcome
It's more that I just straight up listen to players who say they can't be meta-read, and who say they tailor their scum strategy around people trying to meta-read them.

My history with Bambi:
- Marked For Death (Jay-town me-town): Lightly scumread on D1 then locktowned for the whole game.
- JK9++ (Jay-town me-town): Ran them up to L-1 for not doing anything. They fakeclaimed vig and got shot.
- Jester Nightless (Jay-town me-scum): Hard-pocketed knowing they would pretty much follow my reads after winning JK9++ (and bussing N_M D1), endgamed them.
- Masons and Monks (Jay-scum me-town): They sheeped me the entire game onto 3 scum lynches, brought me to LyLo, hard towntelled like 5 times, and quickhammered when I chose wrong.
- Tit for Tat (Jay-town me-town): Ignored my reads, speedlynched one of my locktownreads, fakeclaimed jailkeeper the next day, got mislynched.

I have exactly 1 game of reading Bambi correctly. And trust me, I've been keeping up with their games for a while now (it's part of why I subbed into Masons and Monks).

I've been metaing them but I also know that if I'm constantly wrong on a player, I need to do something differently to be able to read them right. I'm not sure what that is yet.

Earlier, this process happened:
- Hmm, Bambi warning us about the L-1 so openly but not taking their vote off is a scumtell, sure, but not actually something I expect scum would do.
- But wait, Bambi has an insanely high scum winrate and has fooled me before. Need to check their games.
- Ctrl+F'd "hammer" in all their games, was like "fuck, they're actually MORE cautious about hammers as town than as scum".
- Bambi's online, might as well ask about it.
- Reasonable answer, okay, looks like that situation is all NAI.
I don't push my reads on people if the meta indicates that my tells are NAI.

I'd still policy lynch them if it got to that point, but I don't consider voteparking on Bambi to really be playing mafia, however satisfying it might be.

[Mathdino]

i am in no way okay with this suddenly becoming a penguin wagon after you just got through convincing me penguin was town -_-

[CheekyTeeky]

i am in no way okay with this suddenly becoming a penguin wagon after you just got through convincing me penguin was town -_-

Well he promised us a vote and he lied. Lynch all liars right?

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[Mathdino]

i am in no way okay with this suddenly becoming a penguin wagon after you just got through convincing me penguin was town -_-

Well he promised us a vote and he lied. Lynch all liars right?

terrible tell, i don't policy lynch EVERYTHING