Micro 792: Three in One (Day 6)

[northsidegal]

Wow you're right he has posted all prime numbers

only scum would think that 15 is a prime number.

VOTE: gamma

[northsidegal]

I was all for the bulletproof strategy but I don't really see the benefits of the tracker strategy yet. Don't really want to claim anything for now.

[northsidegal]

Hi North

VOTE: NSG

Pedit kind of? I like them.

hey cheeky! can we finally have a game where we're both town again?

rvs vote, or serious? you mentioned a few other suspects you had, why vote me?

[northsidegal]

Thinking about it I have a theory about scumplay in this game but I'll hold it cos I wanna see if anyone plays like I would expect scum to

i actually think i know exactly what you're saying

but i would also play like that as town (if not more likely to)

and i think you know this about me

Why do you think I'm talking specifically about you

math, did you ever answer this?

[northsidegal]

i don't really like the idea of policy lynching just to set up for future games – it feels kind of weird, like playing towards a future wincondition or something. not even a future wincondition, but maybe even just sacrificing parts of this game to have a potentially better next game. i'd really rather just lynch scumreads.

doesn't it also assume that whoever we're policy lynching is on the losing team for this game?

Yeah but he didn't say this specifically. What he said was scummy af. 1. He used rolling town as a reason. 2. He want's you lynched before LYLO which could mean you're not one of the first two people lynched who would be knocked out.

what do you mean by 2? i don't really get what you're saying here.

[northsidegal]

nah
i didn't think he was specifically talking about me
but i thought about what he was saying and i realised that it basically describes how i'm going to be playing this game (a play that i thought about before even joining)

is there some reason in specific to be cryptic about it?

[northsidegal]

reads for bambi:

Bambi: policy lynchable
Cheeky: bad reads and hard townreads you, is scum pocketing you
Gamma: capable of faking gamesolving, probscum sucking up to me
northsidegal: has posted nothing game relevant, basically scumclaiming
Not_Mafia: policy lynchable with extreme prejudice (although should be kept around depending on how spicy his memes are)
PenguinPower: blanket disapproval of optimal claiming strategy is exactly the kind of scum pushback i get from my gamebreaking
RedFlavor: blatantly chainsaw defending/WKing not_mafia, deserves rope, probably scum
SomethingSmart: honestly he's scummy in every game i've played with him so

does that help at all

Hello, sauce.

[northsidegal]

These are probably my best recent scumgames.
Cosmopolitan (playing as the then-secret alt iiSq5024)
Chocolate Mafia
I can give you context if you want, or you can just take a completely unbiased look.

is that the game where assembler crumbed being scum?

[northsidegal]

math, am i actually your strongest townread so far?

[northsidegal]

you'll have to excuse me if i'm slightly skeptical of that.

[northsidegal]

you'll have to excuse me if i'm slightly skeptical of that.

I mean I understand being punished for a fuckup on my part, but you should also know what I'm referring to. I'm a bit overgamed.

I also don't just lie about where my reads come from as scum. You saw me justify my townread on you in RC's game. In this case, I think mixing up my games should be NAI.

Do you read my townread-followed-by-nulltownread as alignment-informed?

i can understand where your explanation is coming from but there's also a

very

plausible scenario in my head where it is an alignment-informed read.

[northsidegal]

me asking in the first place obviously shows that i'm skeptical in some matter about the read – if the read was fake in the first place, making up some fake reason for it would only dig yourself deeper into a hole. i mean, do you need to sheep ct on a read on me? that would read as fake as well.

[northsidegal]

oh wait, you meant with regards to that post specifically there. the same reasoning still applies actually, i think.

[northsidegal]

Eh, I think it would be perfectly within my meta to fake-sheep townreads on other people, considering that's a major reason I refused to lynch CT in Be Yourself (thanks RC). But yadda yadda self-meta.

I guess what I'm saying is, wouldn't faking a "oh fuck I mixed up my games" excuse dig myself into an EVEN DEEPER hole? You would get it (presumably), but other people could easily go "yeah I don't buy this bullshit".

not on me, i would think. like, don't you sheep people because you can't get a read somewhere yourself? i wouldn't really believe that reasoning.

NSG back to null :/ SS can be town.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

what dropped me down, and what raised smart up?

[northsidegal]

I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.

i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.

[northsidegal]

I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.

i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.

I disagree. I think EP brought it up in a very objective way that doesn't confirm Math's alignment. The point was that Penguin thought it against the spirit of the game and against the rules and EP clarified it was not. It was more a response to EP than a response to Math pushing PLs in the first place.

eh, i see what you're saying and i wasn't planning on taking it into account in terms of reads but that type of thing still gives me pause. the few times i've seen it it's never been a false positive, though that could just be caused by there naturally being more town than scum.

[northsidegal]

At the time of making that original post:

NSG was playing to her scum meta.

Penguin I was scumreading.
CT I'm getting really bad feelings about but a lot of that is "I just got screwed by her scumgame so everything pings me now".
And Red I realised was also playing similarly to JK9++.

That "I'm scumreading everyone" post was only mostly ironic. Townreads have been hard to come by. Bambi isn't actually scum by play, and I'll admit that a couple things aren't what I'd expect of scum-Bambi.

So when 4 players are acting more like their scumselves and Bambi is just acting like themself, you kinda have to realise that everyone at the null line and below is actually likely town.

was the bolded a typo? it seems like it wasn't, but

just earlier

after you had realized your mix-up you said that my ISO so far was nai, not that it was apparently to my scum meta.

[northsidegal]

NSG is weird. I just got out of a game where I lock-towned her as a reaction test specifically to see if she'd get all paranoid of me, under the assumption that she would only do so as town. I was just about to use that tell to townread her but now I realise that of fucking course she'd intentionally fish for townreads by doing that after I literally told her that's the reaction I was fishing for last game.
So I'm back to null there. NSG being at null is a very uncomfortable gamestate.

This is WIFOM, and kind of a lazy way to form a read. The contexts are different – if this time i actually feel like the vote is coming from an alignment informed position rather than it feeling genuine, i'm going to call it out. That question itself shouldn't be the basis for a read in the first place, i think. I mean, did you think that i thought you'd forgotten that reaction test last game?

NSG how do you feel about Math's progression on his read of you?

it feels opportunistic – even if i believe that the mix-up was real the whole tit for tat thing being used as justification for a vote doesn't seem genuine at all. remembering the reaction test and how he explicitly said the reaction he's looking would only really be a reason to drop me down to null (if he was making a lazy read in the first place), not as scum. "nsg isn't towny yet so that's a scumtell" isn't meaningful at all and mathdino knows that.

[northsidegal]

but yeah Red-town, Smart-town, Penguin-town-for-now-I-guess-until-I-metadive, and CT/N_M-not-the-scumteam narrows it down a lot
to the point where "NSG is playing her scum meta" basically means she's scum

where is your read on red coming from?

[northsidegal]

Spoiler:

here have a lolcase

Hi North

VOTE: NSG

Pedit kind of? I like them.

hey cheeky! can we finally have a game where we're both town again?

rvs vote, or serious? you mentioned a few other suspects you had, why vote me?

oh boy this line of questioning doesn't get anywhere

it doesn't go anywhere because cheeky answers in

the very next post

. i don't think there's any useful further avenues of questioning with regards to her response – do you think there were and me not thinking of them makes me scum?

Thinking about it I have a theory about scumplay in this game but I'll hold it cos I wanna see if anyone plays like I would expect scum to

i actually think i know exactly what you're saying

but i would also play like that as town (if not more likely to)

and i think you know this about me

Why do you think I'm talking specifically about you

math, did you ever answer this?

prodding me to answer a jokey question, so pro-town

how is that a "jokey" question and how is me asking you to answer it in any way scum-indicative?

i don't really like the idea of policy lynching just to set up for future games – it feels kind of weird, like playing towards a future wincondition or something. not even a future wincondition, but maybe even just sacrificing parts of this game to have a potentially better next game. i'd really rather just lynch scumreads.

doesn't it also assume that whoever we're policy lynching is on the losing team for this game?

Yeah but he didn't say this specifically. What he said was scummy af. 1. He used rolling town as a reason. 2. He want's you lynched before LYLO which could mean you're not one of the first two people lynched who would be knocked out.

what do you mean by 2? i don't really get what you're saying here.

half the words she typed out for the game thus far has been fluff, meaningless "i don't like how you're playing the game", and casual disapproval of the claiming strategy

people were talking about policy lynches and playing towards the future games... so

I

talked about those things. You can't call that meaningless when that's what the current topic of discussion was.

tl;dr NSG's only examples of complex thought thus far has been
- Paranoia of me townreading her, which she knows gets me to townread her.
- Clear dismay at me being potentially conftown by modspew.

My being paranoid of you having bad reasons to townread you is in literally no way a scumtell, unless i'm meant to just stay silent on it and let you fake townread me whenever you're scum. You're also talking a level 0 view of what i would do as scum and assuming that i have a level 0 view of the way you develop reads in the first place. Is "math made a huge deal about this towntell that he was looking for in this game that just finished so i'll do it this time" a real thought that you think i would have as scum?

Quote where you think i display "dismay" at the mod thing.

[northsidegal]

And "nsg isn't towny yet so that's a scumtell" has a 100% success rate.

i mean, it just failed in tit for tat, and it also has a sample size of about 2 i'm pretty sure, so i don't really buy it.

[northsidegal]

You were still advancing the gamestate in Tit for Tat early game. The reaction test failed, yes, but I didn't expect it to fail. I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with your ISO early game like I do now.

The spreadsheet didn't work because you play like scum when you're a PR.

This right now is something like the third time i've actually sat down to look at this game. you're literally just trying to activity tell me again, but with proxies for activity rather than just post count itself.

the only reason you think i played like scum that game was because of my activity, and i can tell you right now that it had nothing to do with me being a vigilante instead of vanilla town. my activity would have bene exactlyt he same.

[northsidegal]

i mean, if this is the way it has to be.

No. But you made that post 6 pages into the game. There was NOTHING better to comment on?

i wanted to say hello to cheeky and ask her about her vote, which seemed strange to me. me and cheeky have kind of a history of games together where, for one reason or another, we don't actually really get to play together – i figured that wouldn't be the case here.

and yeah, most of what was being discussed up to that point was whether or not it was a good idea to policy lynch bambietta, so seeing cheeky and her seemingly inconsistent vote

was

the most interesting thing to me at the time.

The emoji made me assume it was non-serious. But you didn't seem to use it to read me. Surely by page 6 there's something more interesting than asking me to answer someone else's question?

Are you saying i

shouldn't

have asked the question? What? You two were being cryptic about something, i was curious about your answer to what he had said.

Do you think there was some read on you to be gleamed off of that interaction? If yes, what? If no, then how are you using it as a point against me that this totally random interaction (which i would never think is anything but nai) is something that i would have based a read off of as town?

No, you talked about those things from an objective top-down view of the gamestate. You noted that you didn't like the idea of it because it feels weird. That's NAI. And if you'd rather lynch scumreads, it didn't help that you didn't seem to have scumreads.

i'm not seeing a reason that i'm scum here.

I didn't say it was a scumtell. It's just not a towntell, which I've already discussed. Even disregarding Tit for Tat, I think you would have to agree that scum-you obviously fakes paranoia if I just call you town for no reason after you were playing consistently with your scumgame.

i mean, i personally think i would have gone for the one level deeper play and not have mentioned it, but i don't think that actually matters – again, you voting me at this stage in the game for doing things that aren't strong enough towntells to you is terrible.

Your hesitance to use that as a part of your read in my mind is trying to avoid having to locktown me.

"

having

to locktown you"

[northsidegal]

You were still advancing the gamestate in Tit for Tat early game. The reaction test failed, yes, but I didn't expect it to fail. I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with your ISO early game like I do now.

The spreadsheet didn't work because you play like scum when you're a PR.

This right now is something like the third time i've actually sat down to look at this game. you're literally just trying to activity tell me again, but with proxies for activity rather than just post count itself.

the only reason you think i played like scum that game was because of my activity, and i can tell you right now that it had nothing to do with me being a vigilante instead of vanilla town. my activity would have bene exactlyt he same.

You would have completely ignored that game while posting all over the place in

every other thread you were a part of?

You'd have to be insane to not agree that THAT level of activity disparity is alignment indicative for plenty of players.

Right now I'm accusing you of active lurking, not lurking.

I'm telling you right now that "oh i'm the vig, i'll ignore this thread for a while" is

never

a thought process that i have. I tried it once in c9++ and got shot night one as the cop. i remember you saying that i was posting in every other thread but i also remember slightly doubting if that were true. check newbie 1850 – that game was going on concurrently i believe, and i'm fairly sure that my activity was exactly the same.

so, do i have it right that you're admitting that you

are

trying to activity tell me?
VOTE: mathdino

[northsidegal]

i wasn't town in be yourself so i can't speak to getting fooled by cheeky's scumgame there but she feels pretty towny this game to me. none of the avenues she's explored have seemed forced which was my preexisting benchmark for what scum cheeky looks like.

earlier in the game when not_mafia was calling out gamma i was thinking that he might be trying to look more helpful as a scum play with all the talk of policy lynches going around. the mentioning of himself not hammering fits into that, but i don't think that's something that he's kept up such that it's actually indicative. it depends on how much danger he's considered himself in as to whether making less game-relevant posts would actually be a towntell i think.

i'm not really sure what to make of penguin's progression on math, where he goes from (bolding mine):

Oh, no, I don't like how you play.

Insulting other players as you have is pretty weak. However, I didn't discredit you (though I think your "optimum" whatever is not), you have explicitly said that you weren't playing the game, and that now your vote on me is only if you "have to play the game." Further, your policy lynches are shit and insulting to the players that are in the game. Grow up a bit.

I'm voting you because you don't seem genuine in your stances at all. Get off your high horse and meta, and come back to the game

.

UNVOTE:

That went up too fast and I don't care for Cheeky's rationale.

Quite possible I just don't like math's playstyle.

Good to note that Not_Mafia is either town or scum with Math.

i still think math's progression on me makes no sense in the slightest.

[northsidegal]

It doesn't have to make 100% sense to you. From your perspective, you're always town.

It has to make sense for scum-me to progress on you like that.

Does it? Write the scum-narrative for me.

the scum progression is that i was next in line after you dropped your other scumreads after the pushback from them and the whole meta point was an easy way for you to segway into that with "nsg not being locktowned means she's scum".

[northsidegal]

So you're saying that scum-me drops scumreads because they scumread me back, and so I go find someone else to antagonise?

i'm saying that scum you drops scumreads because it's clear that the scumread is hurting you more than anyone else. i mean, that's pretty much exactly how you've described your scumgame before – political.

1. Do you believe I intend to lynch you today?

2. Do you believe town-Mathdino thinks he can read you easily?

it seems that way, and yes.

[northsidegal]

Do you think that scum-Mathdino thinks you're a viable mislynch?

You're right that my scumgame (and my towngame, you left that out) is political. You've played in both my most indicative scumgames lately, and IIRC, you read Jester Nightless.

Did you get the impression that my scum strategy was to shop around for scumreads until I found one that didn't draw suspicion on me?

i wouldn't doubt it.

what scumgames are you referring to besides anything upick? i skimmed jester nightless.

i know your scumgame to be political – i couldn't tell you specifically if that exactly is something you've done before but given that i'd characterize it as being "political" i don't think it could be used as a point against you being scum.

[northsidegal]

Yeah the progression from Penguin is the worst. NSG if you didn't beetlejuice so much I'd call you town for that observation.

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I don't know if a {Math, Penguin} team is feasible. N_M is acting straight up weird. {Penguin, NM} makes sense but feels too easy.

NSG I'm not removing my vote until you give comments on others, pretty please. What do you think of Gamma/SS/Bambi so far?

what does "beetlejuice" mean?

i didn't mention any of those three because i don't really have much that's meaningful to say there. gamma seems exactly the same as always – there haven't been any serious stretches of logic from him that have pinged me but i won't pretend like i actually read terror in the city enough to make a good comparison off the top of my head of his scumgame vs here.

smart has just kind of been here. i don't really remember any of his posts, honestly.

bambietta hasn't been hilariously obviously scum like in vengeful but i don't think it'd be a good idea to base any real reads off of that.

[northsidegal]

- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.

you keep saying this, but it keeps not being true.

[northsidegal]

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?

[northsidegal]

Almost doubt = zero gut.

it took me

far

longer than it should have to understand this.

Also, he's the only person I've created a case on and he will not provide me with any further content at this point so I'm comfortable sitting there while penguin and Math do their thing. I'm very willing to jump on a penguin wagon at this point. Should we get one started?

i still think math is more likely to be scum, honestly – i'd like to see more of how penguin progresses from here first.

[northsidegal]

Don't have time to respond to 528 fully right now, will later.

In all honesty I do find NSG's lack of frustration at Math constantly tunneling her, over a few games, rather strange. Like yes, she's disagreeing, but I think she either is the most patient person on MS or she finds it hard to produce convincing emotion as scum.

If it were me I would've blown up at Math by now.

Math is trying too hard AI for you?

Cheeky, when was the last time you saw me get upset? Someone said the same thing about me in a newbie game that I finished recently. I don't even think there's reason to get upset: I think math is scum, so the "nsg not being obvtown means she's scum" isn't genuine.

[northsidegal]

In which her former partner agrees with my scumread on her
So I feel like NSG claiming she plays the same as VT and PR is false

I don't understand your point here. For one, what motivation would I have to lie about that? If anything as scum it would benefit me to lie and agree with you to cast doubt as to whether any scumreads on me was just because I'm a pr.

But, like - I'm not lying. Yours and aster's reads don't even factor into it - I'm telling you right now that I do nothing to play differently as a pr vs vt.

[northsidegal]

Yeah math has a point

VOTE: nsg

Now I have reason to get upset.

[northsidegal]

What are Mathdino and NSG 1v1ing over on page 20 btw?

Seriously?

[northsidegal]

i can't ignore a read just because of the setup, and the counter to what mathdino is saying holds perfectly true for me. if "why would scum mathdino try to lynch nsg" is a point you're going to make, how can you ignore "why would scum nsg try to lynch mathdino"?

[northsidegal]

I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread

how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?

[northsidegal]

and am i the "scumread" that you refer to? i don't even think you've mentioned me before this.

[northsidegal]

I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread

how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?

I said I skimmed, nice misrep

okay, please answer my question as if i had said "hadn't been reading it closely".

[northsidegal]

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

[northsidegal]

Me or Gamma?

gamma, although your answer would still be relevant.

[northsidegal]

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?

why would

i

want math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?

[northsidegal]

Because you respect his town play and would be rather concerned if he were town? And what do you think you know about his scumgame?

First of all, the exact same thing applies with regards to mathdino towards me. what's more, what you're describing as my mentality just doesn't make sense for anyone. your chances of rolling town in future games is always more than your chances of rolling scum, so if you were going to play with future games in mind you would always play towards a future towngame over a future scumgame.

i know that he plays politically and i know that he's worse at real-time interaction (something that i think is visible this game).

[northsidegal]

Why are you scumreading him for something you know that is just a thing he does then (being bad at realtime interaction)? And what is playing politically?

i'm saying that's what i know if his

scumgame

, that he's worse at realtime interaction as scum than as town.

playing "politically" is fabricating your reads in such a way to try to get rid of players where it hurts you to have them around and keeping around players that benefit you to have them around. an example for mathdino would be keeping newbies around who townread a loud / dominant playstyle and getting rid of the more experienced players who might see through it. something_smart can probably describe this better than i can.

in this game, i think math's "political" play is evident in the way that he backed off of all of his scumreads before me after it was clear that it wasn't working for him.

[northsidegal]

I'm describing his play this game.

[northsidegal]

I get that but are you saying your lynch is beneficial for this or future game for MD, and why?

i'm not making that argument.

[northsidegal]

oh, sorry – i misread what you said, i thought you were just talking about future games.

i mean, my lynch is beneficial for him in the sense that someone who's pushing him as scum dies, but i'm not making the argument that he's scum

just because

he's pushing me. i also think you may be slightly misunderstanding the true essence of playing "politically" – in this game i would say it's more manifested itself through his dropped pushes.

[northsidegal]

wat

If NSG is scum, my alignment is indeterminate. I can't honestly tell you I don't bus in micros, because I have.

If NSG is town, I'm town by virtue of "what the fuck is Math doing trying to get a mislynch on town-NSG hurting his future games".

If I'm town, NSG is highly likely scum, because I'm likely right.

If I'm scum, NSG alignment is still indeterminate, because something something godly busplay.

You lynch the more likely person to be scum.

To be frank, saying "if nsg is town i'm town because I'd never push her as scum" and "if i'm town nsg is scum because i'm right" is an idiotic double standard.

[northsidegal]

i can't ignore a read just because of the setup, and the counter to what mathdino is saying holds perfectly true for me. if "why would scum mathdino try to lynch nsg" is a point you're going to make, how can you ignore "why would scum nsg try to lynch mathdino"?

Points for creativity, but it doesn't work backwards at all.

I've never at any point said "yep NSG believes she can read me perfectly". Hell, I have strong reason NOT to believe that you believe that, given Tit for Tat, where you shot someone because you thought I was scum.

So unless your argument is "scum-NSG just wants Dino around in later games because he's fun to play with", that's a trash argument.

You are not responding to the point i'm actually making.

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?

why would

i

want math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?

[northsidegal]

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?

why would

i

want math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?

Respecting my townplay only works if we both roll town.

Like the whole point of this is that I think I can read you, and am thus more dangerous to you on opposite alignments.

I mean do you think I should just be townreading you for the OMGUS?

why would i be playing towards rolling scum in future games instead of rolling town? you also ignored the second part of what i said.

i don't think i implied anything of the sort?

[northsidegal]

It's not a double standard because the scenario here is town-Math and scum-NSG. So when I say "If NSG is town" I'm describing an improbable scenario anyway, but under that improbable scenario, I'm still HIGHLY LIKELY town.

i don't think saying "it's not a double standard because i'm right" is actually an argument.

Also, if you're trying to use the argument back at me, you're acknowledging that it objectively holds ground, right?

I'm not using the argument back at you, i'm pointing out its inherent contradiction. Saying "mathdino would never lynch nsg as scum" loses any sort of weight when you ignore the inverse of "nsg wouldn't lynch math as scum". i don't even think the argument is correct in the first place – for anyone who rolls scum, just winning

that game

as scum is far and away more important than planning for any future games. that's something i'd expect you to have realized.

[northsidegal]

I'm not sure where you got the "worse at realtime interaction" idea.

i recall you saying it to describe your own scumgame in a game i read/was in, though i can't remember specifically where.

How in god's name is it unreasonable to you that I've been scumreading you off your barren ISO?

Like jesus christ you told me in Anything uPick that "anyone with a grasp of my meta should be scumreading me". So you clearly have it in you to acknowledge when you've been playing to your scum meta. And again, you've ALSO framed me as one of two players who thinks we can read you off like 5 posts.

So reading your first 8 posts, you don't think that town-Mathdino pushes you here?

That's actually insane. You're trying to frame this as "well scum-Mathdino plays like this", when you haven't seen me play like this, when I've already refuted the idea of scum-Mathdino doing this, and to top it off, you haven't explained why town-Mathdino DOESN'T PLAY LIKE THIS. My entire scumread on you is based on "town-NSG doesn't play like this"!

Because my ISO isn't barren in the slightest? Like I said, you keep saying this and it keeps not being true.

When i said that in anything upick it's because it was a valid statement. Here, it's not. I don't understand the comparison you're trying to draw here.

For one, mathdino this game

didn't

push me after my first eight posts – even after the mixup was cleared up, you thought i was

town

based on what i'd posted so far:

i thought i explained the mixup already

is why i was all weirded out about NSG's weirded-out-ness

okay i actually do think NSG is town *for now*

Then, in a span where

i didn't post anything

, you switched over to me being scum and made a terrible "lolcase" on me. So what changed? Well, after you talk about where your scumread on penguin is coming from, cheeky posts this:

No I think you're being biased. There's no motivation for scum Penguin to drop an AtE when he's under not very much pressure early game. It felt 100% genuine to me and is the main reason I lock TR him.

I started off not knowing how I felt so I pushed him. Then I kind of felt his reaction to the claim was fine as he wasn't using it as an excuse to scum read you at the time he was saying he didn't agree. Then I thought he misrepped you by saying you weren't playing the game, but then he clarified what he meant and pointed out your ego/high horse thing which made me lock town him, because your opening game is RCesque so his points are valid although I'm not PLing you today for it.

You're literally OMGUSing him from my PoV and that's why I wanted to understand your scum read.

And

directly after that

is when you post this:

Spoiler:

RC pushes for policy lynches on players he thinks are better as scum than town?

If I'm wrong on Penguin I'm quickly heading toward a scumteam of {NSG}+{CT or N_M}.

VOTE: northsidegal

god help me if this is town

Edit: I was scumreading him before he was pushing me at all. Literally what happened FMPOV is

- Mathdino pushes for setup spec and policy lynches
- People get annoyed, suggest real scumhunting
- I go "well if we're playing the game..." and vote Penguin because he was my strongest scumread
- Penguin asks me to explain
- I do so
- Penguin flips shit at me "not playing the game"

this is where i'm coming from when i say "political".

finally, to go back to your original question, i expect you to have moved on from my first eight posts in the game by now.

[northsidegal]

And you think that for scum-me, lynching you is the game-winning move?

Like, as opposed to getting lynches on Bambi, N_M, or Penguin?

i never said that lynching me was a "game winning move" – what i'm saying is that scum would simply prioritize winning over anything else.

[northsidegal]

Like seriously North and Dino, your conversation was the main attraction but I don't think either of you are talking about what the rest of the town want. Or even mentioned your opinions on Gamma at ALL to contribute to such a vote. So if you can kindly give your opinion on this, that would be much appreciated.

i don't really understand the reasons there? like, from my point of view i think the way he went about deaing with my wagon was slightly scummy but i don't think that's why other people are voting there.

[northsidegal]

i welcome you to go into her post history and find out if she has a generally anti-PL stance

like she can correct me if i'm wrong but i haven't seen that kind of thing from her

lie.

"policy lynches are scum garbage" ring a bell?

[northsidegal]

but i accept your argument that your scumbuddy is not necessarily N_M or Bambi

Stop speaking to me like this.

[northsidegal]

I understand that you were genuine in your concession. I am telling you to stop speaking to me with phrases like "your scumbuddy".

[northsidegal]

good game