In post 792, Sando wrote:Taly wrote:Please talk to me about how voting Jay and holding off on TheGoldenParadox until a replacement came, is being anti-wagon.
You can't be serious? We'd had a long talk about TGP vs A50, and I specifically said I didn't like your anti-wagon there. Here I'll quote myself for you:
Sando wrote:This is my concern, that Taly is leading us off the A50 train onto TGP to at least get a mislynch out of his partner. I don't like someone looking at their two scummiest reads and being so indignant at the idea of lynching one of them over the other.
This post is so wrong.
1)
You do realize that my general scumread on
TheGoldenParadox
was stronger than
Almost50
, right?
323 -
364 =
406
Hell, I even stated that I could see
Almost50
being town in some aspects prior to his claim. Why am I scum with
Almost50
because I'm pursuing a more confident scumread?
2)
Why are you still holding me to my earlier reads in D1? Hello,
TheGoldenParadox
flipped town and proved me wrong, WHILE
Almost50
claimed doctor.
In my view, it's incredibly anti-town to lynch through
Almost50's
claim at this point:
If he's truthful, then the town is handing scum the win because we're almost completely vulnerable to 2 NKs each night.
If he's lying, then why sort that out now? Only 3 flips have happened.
3)
You say my 'anti-wagon' is odd, but you didn't even mention the times I've tried to pursue
JaydragonKing
up until my absence, and my further explanation of my push/read on him in my last post.
VOTE: Sando
I feel like this is a very weak attempt to spread suspicion on my stated reasonings.
In post 792, Sando wrote:Taly wrote:1) Hate that Creature was boiled down to being OMGUS here even though he tried to start a productive wagon 522
How was this productive? How was what I said out of line with my previous discussion with Creature about OMGUS? How was creatures wagon well reasoned and not OMGUS?
Because he was trying to wagon and progress a slowing down game!
522
This was when
TheGoldenParadox
replaced out and nobody else was there.
462
1)
You didn't ask him why he voted that way.
2)
You didn't try and gauge a reaction back.
3)
You simply wrote
Creature
off as "omgus-ing as usual".
4)
You then proceeded to doubt
Almost50's
claim without engaging with him.
5)
But you vote Shadpearl...? Seems like you're deflecting attention.
All this happened in
526
He may not have had a solid reason for wagoning you aside from feeling odd about you
328 -
527
But your reaction to him SURELY is enough reason for me to vote and suspect you.
VOTE: Sando
In post 792, Sando wrote:Taly wrote:2) "We'll sort that in the coming days" Love the doubtcast on a claim, though. ((Sarcasm)) But, you didn't seem to have a comment when Flavor Leaf did it and he was getting quickwagoned. 637
Yeah, cause, you know, associative tells and all...
My last post of the day was ~45 minutes after FL claimed, and I wasn't voting him, and was engaged with Mathdino at the time. I was then away during the subsequent wagon. No votes had changed in that time.
Taly taking credit for Jay's scumflip along with basic incomprehension of this strikes me as extremely scummy.
VOTE: Taly
Yeah, the bolded is the exact problem I have here.
1)
646 had NOTHING to do with verifying or debunking
Flavor Leaf's
claim, and this was WELL before the hammer post in
737 >> Why is
Flavor Leaf's
claim OK, when he's getting wagoned to be lynched, and
Almost50's
is still "weird"?
2)
And cool... Your last day post was 45 minutes after
Flavor Leaf
claimed, but almost TWO days until the hammer. You could have engaged with someone other than
Mathdino
...
3)
Actually, if you truly were away during the final votes on the wagon;
668 -
672 -
680 -
688 -
703 -
737
Then how were you engaging with Mathdino at all?
Like, this reads as a potential scumslip.
4)
Even if I misread you, and you didn't slip at all, you CANNOT say that the votes on the wagon on Flavor Leaf changed between the hammer and your last post in
646
There were several votes that were placed on him progressively after this.
Also, what does associatives have to do with
Almost50's
claim? Were you planning to push a
Me+Almost50
scumduo for the past 300 posts?
Actually, rereading
646 makes me think that this WAS planned. You only focused on
Almost50
because it verified a (weak) reason to scumread him even after a flip.
VOTE: Sando
In post 793, Sando wrote:So the scumkill on Lalendra is interesting from a Mathdino reread.
Mathdino would fairly easily qualify as a townleader at end of D1, so either:
1) Scum thought the town-flip would destroy his credibility
2) Scum thought he'd continue to townlead so killed off a townread of his
3) They doc-hunted successfully
4) Mathdino is scum
I don't think 1 is particularly likely with a player like Mathdino. ISOing Mathdino on Lalendra he never came close to townreading him, null at best and I'd say leaning scum. Given Lalendra was backup doc and had no indication they'd have doc power until post flip, I'm not sure 3 is anything more than luck. That leaves 4 as the logical answer.
Anything could be the answer though, they could have VT-read Mathdino and thus simply excluded and ignored him from the hunt, rendering it null, or many other possibilities. But I'm giving scumpoints to Mathdino-slot for both not dying and Lalendra being NKd.
If
Mathdino
being scum is the most logical universe in your eyes, then why are you proclaiming that he's a townleader and transparently giving him scumpoints AFTER he's replaced out?
THIS. Is what distancing looks like.
VOTE: Sando
In post 799, Sando wrote: In post 796, Ausuka wrote: In post 791, profii wrote:Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot
You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50
Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST
This post makes like 0 sense to me. Taly is scum because he doesn't think doom or A50 is scum anymore on d2?
Makes sense to me, especially the A50 part.
A50 and TGP get into rival wagons
Taly comes along with "nah despite them both being super scummy, we should only lynch TGP today"
TGP is lynched and flips town
Taly no longer finds A50 scummy
I mean my statement about Taly (which you haven't responded to, just profii's and then lumped me in with) derailing A50 wagon onto TPG is followed very nicely by now no longer scumreading A50. Makes perfect sense from an A50+Taly scum perspective.
I
derailed
Almost50
as you're stating, I was focused on
TheGoldenParadox
.
You act as if all of my explanations in this game up to this point... don't exist at all.
VOTE: Sando
In post 802, Sando wrote:A50 wrote:If someone doesn't see the flow in Sando's case: He says it's me+Taly, but he votes Taly over me himself when >I< was the original suspect to begin with. Like, if he really believed in his theoretical team he should be pushing ME first and only push Taly if I flip red. Obviously, he knows his wagon on me won't go through because of my claim, so why not push the other person and maybe we can force a claim there! That's all what scum care about.
1) Oh right, so by your logic we shouldn't push a case on ANYONE else because they might be forced to claim?
2) Why is pushing it on Taly any worse than pushing it on literally anyone else?
3) Why did you push cases D1 and lynch a doc-claim if you think pushing people is scum motivated?
4) You're trying to make out that pushing literally ANYONE other than you can only be scum motivated...
1)
What the hell is this sentence? How, in D1, is a claim automatically 100% scum-motivated in your eyes, but you're not even pushing the wagon on the person that claimed? You're seriously painting everything about
Almost50
out to be scum when in reality, you're ignoring him.
Maybe because you know he might actually BE doc?
2)-
If the above statement holds true; I completely see why
Sando
is pushing me. I
am
an easy case to push.
If it doesn't, then why are you still focused on
Almost50
and I given the explanations and claims? Why am I special to YOU?
3)
Why are you making this argument? You ignored
Flavor Leaf's
claim, and now you're trying to throw reasons back at
Almost50
on why his is bad.
4)
Gee, I wonder who else has done that.
In post 792, Sando wrote:Taly taking credit for Jay's scumflip along with basic incomprehension of this strikes me as extremely scummy.
VOTE: Taly
In post 526, Sando wrote:Oh look, more OMGUS from Creature...colour me surprised.
VOTE: Sando