Touhou UCanPick 5 - [Game Over]

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Very quickly:
Gamma looks like scum.

I don't buy that Katyusha's role is explicitly town. I'd like a flavor claims as well as a claim of any other effects.
A,) I 100% believe that FakeGod might give scum an additional kill, especially if they can't really target it.
B.) The 'if I think they're scummy' caveat bothers me.
C.) It's clearly not a vig or anything like that. It's strictly worse than double day which has questionable utility when we're at odds anyway.

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VOTE: Gamma

Also a little bit triggered by Skies, but I haven't really read his first post beyond a quick skim.

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Yeah, it's not AI, but it matters for the plausibility of a claim.

@gaiden: I agree that other people shouldn't flavor claim for the most part, but there's no reason for Kat not to.

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Eddie and probably one of Kiana or Lexa are scum; BS is provisionally town. The composition of the BS wagon, for the record, is actually bad. Gaiden might be scum too.

Katyusha changed her claim and should vig the L-1 wagon

after

an unvote to prove that her role is actually what she just said. If she can vig anyone who has ever been at L-1, I'd agree that that seems unlikely as a scum role.

VOTE: eddie cane

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For the night action thing, I think it's probably best for people to claim if/when they think their card will be useful.

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You might be right about human sequencer. Why is Kiana a slight TR for you?

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You claimed you could vig the L-1 wagon initially. Then you claimed you could vig anyone who had ever been at L-1, which is very different in my mind.

Tentatively EC's reads look easy or spurious. He has a pool of mostly low content posters, and his preferred lynch order is nearly the opposite of the order I read the slots in.

To a certain extent, I'm waiting for Kiana and Sky Paladin to do something, but I don't want to make them post because I want to see if they'll continue to lie low.

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The reversal on Gaiden also struck me as odd.

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@EC: Don't care to find the posts, but you start out with Gaiden in your pool (so lower than Town-lean). Then you drop him from your pool after he makes two posts about how he doesn't have reads yet.

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The main issue I have with EC, and at this point it's more of an annoyance than anything, is that his reads don't really mean anything. When I posted that they were easy/spurious, that's 100% true and his responses basically support that. When asked to defend any read, he just says that he's a tone reader and doesn't even gesture to what post or what part of a post strikes him as town/scum. Looking through his pool, it seems like there might be 2 scum in it, which isn't very good considering it's half the player list.

I guess one time he played a game where he successfully called which half of the playerlist the scum was in and decided he was a mafia brain genius?

I've had some time to read the thread since I got out of work and so I guess I'll post the things that pop out at me.

Kiana's absence really bothers me; she was confrontational right out the gate in the game I played with her, and she's just nowhere here. I don't like it because I feel like I could probably sort her and get a better handle on the game state. I'm a little disappointed the BS wagon dissipated because I wanted to see if SP would pretend to be serious about his RVS vote or something when he comes back.

I mostly null read BS, the thing that bothered me the most that he posted was accusing KK of buddying Kat in her first post. I also didn't like the post, but it didn't look like a buddy attempt to me at all. I'd like to know his reads, because I think a lot of what he's posted doesn't really address them.

I like HS's response to the wagon. I don't really like Elbirn's push on EC, though I guess that's a little hypocritical.

DLE, Kat, Purrcocet and iirc Dunnstral all look town to me. I don't really get GE, but the thing that originally pinged me turned out to be a misunderstanding on my part. So I guess that puts me at {BS, KK, SP?, Elbirn} with Lexa and Gaiden as unknowns. Hebi is irl scum for calling me text editor; I do absolutely no editing. I'll try to make a more focused post in the morning.

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The town read on SP early on looked so arbitrary I figured it was probably manufactured. I only recently saw the explanation.

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BS thought the same thing, which is one of the things that makes him not especially scummy in my eyes.

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VOTE: Brian Skies

I'm ok with vigging brian at this point. Although it probably doesn't matter, I'd still request that whenever we do vig someone, we establish that they don't need to be at L-1 at the time of vigging or in the most recent vote count.

Ftr, regarding the 2 scum in the list thing. I don't have strong enough reads to justify claiming that all of the scum are in my scum reads. Probably someone I haven't really considered is scum.

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Hi, Kiana. You're right, I hadn't checked your site-wide activity and only noticed just now that you haven't been posting elsewhere.

Fun hypothetical for KK: Suppose I'm actually confirmably town. What does that do to your scum-reads?

p-edit: Sky's 304 is actually not good.

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I'm not shading Kiana for lack of activity. I want her reads to be useful/interesting and reiterating eddie's reads is lame because they're bad. Also that's not really a hypothetical.

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The scum reads on me are lazy and Kiana was clearly bumping into that in her post, but she didn't want to take that any further. I don't really think HS is scum, but I could easily be wrong about that. So I'm generally suspicious of where things are atm.

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I think Brian has a good chance of being scum because his posts didn't really engage with the game from a scum hunting perspective. HS's posts read to me like someone who doesn't have a real handle on the game but is trying more authentically to engage with it.

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It should be clear that I don't really have a strong feeling about the scum team. Brian is fine for vig, I don't have a better idea there. Idk who I'd pick next; it probably depends on the flip.

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Minor correction to EC above: If I'm counting correctly, we need one vote to put Brian at L-1. Current wagon is: SP, GE, Kat, EC, KK, and TG which is L-2.

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May as well:
KK:369
Kat:311
Me:309
EC:303
Which brings us back to the last votecount:
a couple other votes changed but nothing relevant.

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Imo, anyone stage one or two should stage-claim and we probably have better options than Kat's card today.

HS needs to post reads or die, imo.

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I disagree, 1-shot vig puts us at evens, which is very little utility unless we have another kill or a protection.

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Also I don't really doubt that your card does what you say, and that's part of the utility of card use.

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elbirn is correct about the vig thing. If anyone can rolecop, I have a 100% never scum role.

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I agree about HS 249. I didn't have any confident reads at the time, and HS was, I think, correctly identifying the sort of disjointedness of that post.

I guess for an update on reads: I think the EC nk and Brian flip implicate HS to a certain extent, but I'd wait until they catch-up or choose not to before voting them. Kiana's catch-up was bad, recapitulating things that had already been mentioned in thread and only serving to ingratiate herself to EC and Kat. Lexa's catch-up is good and I'm pretty confident she's town.

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I just ISO'd HS and I really don't think they're scum. Like, the Brian posts look like an unfortunate coincidence and everything else they say rings authentic to me.

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I may just be dumb here though

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I think hebichan is prob scum. If my feels about HS are right, I guess purrcocet, kiana, dunn, or gaiden?

Lexa and Kat are def town. Gamma is town. I liked DLE's posts. Everyone else is sort of a town lean.

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tbh, kiana is probably me being contrarian. she's lean town too.

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Actually, it is just HS and hebi.

Hebi's vote on me is easy to make up as scum, but w/e. There's absolutely no interaction with the Brian wagon in spite of personally interacting with EC, who was driving it. But looking again:

VOTE: Lexa

Posting hasn't gotten better.

Also can you elaborate more human, that analysis of TG seems... all over the place?

I also apologize for text editor, I was pretty tired when I wrote that post, I just wanted to have some content this game.

This is a classic scum trope. He votes Lexa, who at this point is almost certainly town, while questioning someone else for a weird post about his previous vote? Very odd, at the least.

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The 'trope' I'm referring to is voting a townie while FoS'ing a partner. No one FoS's but this is basically in the same spirit.

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:/ We only get one spellcard per phase

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lol

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If Kat's scum, she's lying about her role and can't vig anyone in lylo (incidentally, I have the impression that FG did not put any timing restrictions in the spellcards). FG isn't going to put a role in the game that makes the win come down to a race between town and scum to make the first post of the day, which is exactly what that would do.

p-edit: I asked FG about when he posts votecounts and he said they were posted at random, so unless he was being imprecise in wording his answer, I don't think we can make him post VC's.

@FakeGod: If we ask you to post a VC, willl you?

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I also find it hard to believe that the only spellcards we have access to today are Kat's and spellcards that can only target people who have used spellcards. It seems pretty limiting.

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Yeah, we need to use hebi or elbirn's, but otherwise that makes sense. Kind of defeats the purpose of getting two flips though.

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Haven't read everything yet. Not an IC, I meant that my role wouldn't be scum because it would have no mechanical use on a scum-team. I have a couple abilities, one is that I'm a jailkeeper (due to the spellcard mechanics this could only ever stop the nightkill). Another is that I can remove a player's ability to vote for a phase. Like Kat, I have no restriction on when I can do this despite the fact that this would allow for me to totally fuck up lylo. Idk if I needed to claim further.
If we lynch another scum I'd be surprised if anyone has a better night 3 ability.

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Kat's being a goof, but w/e. I'd be interested in seeing Kiana case me from the beginning.

Sky's post isn't really a 'good catch,' people do that all the time. If you think that criticizing a single post outside of a push is scummy, we might be in secret lylo, so watch out.

Your catch-up is obviously bad and your posts continue to be bad. Your scum build-up was entirely built on the premise that scum are all mutually town-reading and you seem to be personally insulted by my being suspicious of your absence. Outside of that, everything you've posted is basically surface level bullshit with no dissection of why scum might be doing something or whether town might do that same thing. Lexa's catch-up lends a lot more insight into her thought process and shows that she is actually approaching the game from some kind of analytical angle.

p-edit: no

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The reason we shouldn't use the vig today is because there are good odds we'll fuck it up again, and we already know that several cards rely on other cards being used first.

If HS is scum, vigging them vs lynching them is unlikely to have any real game significance and it's dumb to think I'd be pushing away from the vig for that reason.

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I don't doubt that Kat can do what she says. My initial skepticism was only because I thought she could only vig a

current

L-1 wagon which would naturally preclude the card being usable at night and so there could easily be other timing restrictions. Her role, as she has clarified since then is definitely not scum.

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ftr, HS's posts today have been bad and Hebi's have done nothing to change what I think about the slot. So I'm not even advocating against lynching HS. I'd be happy to vote them as soon as we get spellcard use out of the way.

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Yeah, w/e. I also learn what every previously used spellcard does and additionally what my target's spellcard did. I figured there would be multiple cards capable of checking stuff like that, but I guess I'm not surprised if there aren't.

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Oh, also it makes me loved, not that it matters.
toyosatomimi no miko

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Only change in my reads since the last time I posted them is that HS is scummier. Kiana's continuing course the way she started with her catch-up which is frustrating, but it's possible that my expectations were warped from last game we were in.

I think they're less town than Lexa, but not likely scum.

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Jesus Christ, give it a rest.

Losing a chance to use a spellcard is bad. Doing it twice is also bad. If you think we're going to hit scum today, you should agree with me on this one.

p-edit: HS's posts are bad because they didn't show a notable evolution in their view of the gamestate, which shouldn't be neutral at this phase of the game.

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I don't actually want you to case me, I don't give a shit. You'll re-iterate what you've already said as though it's meaningful content. What I'd like you to do is talk about anything other than me or perhaps HS. Something that shows you have views of the gamestate outside of a totally myopic single-team theory.

p-edit: Lol? They hadn't taken many stances, so their reads could develop in any number of ways, but didn't. Given that pretty much everyone's weighed in on that, I don't see why you'd expect me to have something very novel there.

You thought James was scum and then changed your mind in that game. You had much more flexible reads and were forthcoming with content outside of one single possibility. This game you've been insanely hubristic, to be charitable. If you thought you had any chance of being nk'd at all on night one, you should really sit down and give your assessment another think.

Kat's been a little frustrating as well, mostly becuse she thinks her card is good, which it isn't. If scum were worried about the vig, why kill eddie over kat? They had very similar reads. Esp. if the team were me + HS, killing Kat would be the obvious choice. EC is strongly preferable to people who know him and are worried about his reads or someone Kat was town-reading who EC was not.

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?
I mean, if your point is that anyone might choose EC, I don't disagree; but vig in this context is clearly not a very powerful role. I don't really see why there's disagreement regarding this.

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VOTE: HS

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Who's the non-HS scum team?

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JIC, hebichan should use his card tonight, imo.

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He and elbirn claimed usable cards. The question is which we want dunn to cop.

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I agree, I meant if the day was cut short by some tragic accident.

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If there's a hated mechanic, I suspect it's a self-hating effect on a spellcard.

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Sounds like he's claiming two rolecops

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I'm stage 6 though. If things go that way and they no kill we get an extra lynch. Also I'll get to rolecop like, 5 people, which could be bad for scum potentially.

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if anyone has a super strong stage 6 ability, I could just jail them. Obv with the current accusations flying around, I doubt people would want to wait that long to sort both me and HS.

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Does anyone else have a multi-target spell?

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Yeah, KK is scum if HS isn't imo.

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UNVOTE:

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Chiming in here to say that I don't see anything wrong with HS's claim, I fully expect that some mechanics are present in multiple spellcards, and the vig is stage 1 for a reason.

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Strong disagree with this course of action. Imo, we should be lynching hebi and investigating TG. At any rate, since we're at evens we should at least wait for me to jail someone.

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Though I guess I can't be investigated tomorrow unless elbirn annihilates my spell card.

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Tbh, I don't really care much at this point. I'd be astonished if single scum could win either way.

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SP claimed to have a weak late game card, which strikes me as suspicious. If we want to cop Elbirn or sth, it might make sense to break his spellcard so I can rolecop him for free.

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fwiw, I think Purrc is pretty town. I think Gaiden or Hebi basically sews it up.

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I claimed to be a rolecop, I figured there could be multiple.

p-edit: ???

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I pick a target, no restrictions. They are jailed, their vote is removed for the phase, I am made loved, I learn what every used spellcard did and additionally what my target's spellcard does.

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You missed the fullclaim, I claimed all of my role over three posts.

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I agree that hebi's post is suspicious, but w/e

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Then we get an extra lynch. We're at evens

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Nah, it's still an inno if there's a kill and we get a free lynch on my target otherwise. Same as usual with a jk.

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I guess your hypothesis is that scum has a bunch of roles that don't actually do anything for them? My guess would be that HS was lying about being an alignment cop since his claim was so similar to hebi's claim

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Hebi should cop gaiden, dunn will prob eat the nk and then we lynch hebi if there's an inno, gaiden otherwise.
p-edit: I agree

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P sure eddie said he didn't know who third scum was. Idk, I think as scum I would have at least made an earnest attempt to push hebi instead of HS at the beginning of the day, and I certainly wouldn't try using my role as some sort of bargaining chip.

But w/e, we just need Gaiden to claim and we can get this over with. I think Gaiden is last scum, because I doubt hebi would have made up the 'next phase' mechanic, but it does seem like a reasonable way to nerf the alignment cop.

I kind of hope the scum will just resign, because I don't think there's any squirming out of this plan for any of the reasonable suspects.

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:/

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Is there some reason I don't know about to not lynch Gaiden today? I'll promise to self-vote on day 4 if it makes people feel better.

p-edit: Sure, but it's a one-shot and the plan means they get lynched by the end of day 3.

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What's their flavor btw?

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SXTLHGaiden
Sky_Paladin
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DaLetterEl
Elbirn
hebichan

This is Kat's list. The quickest way to get through it is to lynch in {SP, Gaiden, Elbirn} of which I'd prefer Gaiden. Then hebi cops in the left-over. Dunn probably dies, but if not cops hebi.
At the end of day 2 we can cross off three of those names including hebi plus one extra if Dunn survives.
Then I jail someone which either innos or gives us a free lynch. Then we lynch through the rest, presumably starting with me. There's the bonus that if I'm not NK'd I can tell if someone lied about their role, but that probably doesn't matter.

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A double vig doesn't get us back to odds.

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Hebi should claim flavor, if they're lying it's unlikely that their character will make any sense as an investigator.

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Yeah, stage one midbosses in the later games are known to kill new players who try to autocollect aggressively. Your card is the midboss card for your character, so I think that's what it's referencing.

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Oh, I should explain. When you go near the top of the screen you collect every item on the stage. Sometimes mid-bosses can body slam you if you're doing that when they enter from the top.

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@Gaiden: Do you still have to target someone if you use your ability at night? What happens to your target if you use the card at night?

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Hebi's flavor claim is pretty reasonable. Doremy is the ruler of dream world. All of the characters have dream selves which are more impulsive and candid then they are, so something like dream sign "dream catcher" would suggest that she interrogates a character over night and might also explain the vanilla-izing.

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I sort of want SP to do that catch-up post or at least claim his late-game spell card which is somehow worse than a restricted dayvig.

So far it seems like stage 6 spellcards have been worth 1-2 IC with some conditions for when they can be effective, so it's hard to imagine what SP's garbage card is.

Both Gamma and Gaiden's roles seem like game-wreckers in scum hands and are easily confirmable, so not scum. Alignment cops are easy to fake, but mechanically useless for scum so town unless they're lying about their roles. Based purely on the claim, I think hebi's is more believable because the phase delay makes a lot of flavor sense, and I can't imagine what sort of result would need to be delayed other than an alignment check or what purpose a delay would serve in balancing a scum card. Would like to know Dunn's flavor, since he has a true day-cop with mild targeting restrictions. (That is, his role seems almost strictly better than hebi's but can be used at an earlier phase.)

Purrc, DLE, SP, KK, and Lexa are unclaimed. They should all claim by day 3 at the latest, preferably with flavor and spell card.

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If you do decide to lynch me, don't destroy Gaiden's card without getting an alignment investigation. He needs to confirm it's real. The lack of a targeted night action is kind of suspicious so if people don't claim, they should at least confirm whether or not there is another card with no targeted night/day action.

p-edit: slick moves

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[quote=SP]I'm going V/LA for a couple of days /sheeping Kiana forever.

Back in 48 hours or so.[/quote]

This reads like someone who knows the game isn't going to end.

I promise to self-vote if both SP and KK claim with flavor.

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dammit, I screwed up the tags :/

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Oh, lol, I'm not even at L-1. Hm, I guess it's between {SP/elbirn/dunn/DLE} with perhaps a dark horse in KK/Lexa?

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Does FakeGod do prods? I have no idea what DLE's deal is.

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I'll claim when you're dead, you clown.

Will someone collate all the claimed roles? I'd do it but I'm too tired.

This is also a p weird post combo.

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Anyway:
VOTE: Sky_Paladin

hebi should investigate SP. Dunn is probably an investigator, but his claim looks like a scum rolecop fake-claim. I don't really see anything from Gaiden that points to town, but I also don't think FG gives scum an ability like that after the UPick 4 debacle.

Elbirn seems townish to me, but only by tone. He was notably diverting from both HS and BS kills without really addressing the wagons. I don't think KK actually thinks I'm scum, but I think she's pushing me more due to a personal investment in a narrative than out of scum motivation. A lot of purrcocet's interactions seem town to me; I started town-reading him after his early day 2 Kat paranoia.

Kat, Gamma and Lexa are town, but if one of them isn't it's Lexa. DLE could be scum, but there's absolutely nothing to go on so how would I know.

p-edit: why are you even bothering to address me like this? There isn't even a remote chance of this line of questioning being productive.

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The obvious answer to that question would be that you're actually third scum and it's distancing, but I don't think it's that significant.

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In actual fact, I think your catch-ups look like they're constructed to reach a conclusion that you already decided on before you start posting them. Idk about HS and BS, but your posts read more like grandstanding to me than anything.

p-edit: I didn't call the entire player list scum. Here, I'll put a tier list

Kat, Gamma, Lexa
Purrcocet, KK
Gaiden, hebi
Elbirn, dunn
DLE, S

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Bottom two tiers could be shuffled around a little.

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At this point the game is almost entirely mechanical, so I don't really feel to invested in having one scum candidate.

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I haven't played the shooting games since legacy of lunatic kingdom. A few years back I was doing hard mode clears but I don't have the time anymore.

I picked Miko because she's fabulous in the Shinkirou fighting games. I was considering doing Star Sapphire stage 3 to try for a day cop, but decided against it because she's lame.

p-edit: Good odds you have role-related info that says I'm town tbh.

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Why?

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Oh, actually I had missed that post. Yeah, that seems p reasonable. With hebi and Gaiden's claims I have a hard time seeing either as scum, so I think it has to be between Elbirn and DLE even though my case for them is entirely negative. I.e. they didn't interact with scum wagons and I don't have a compelling reason to think they're town.
DLE scum would be kind of an anti-climax but I think it's a very real possibility.

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Dunnstral makes a good point. If we have investigators use their cards in the next two phases, we have +2 IC's and an unconfirmed investigator - 1 because scum kills an IC (Presumably Kat counts here). My card confirms the unconfirmed investigator for free unless scum NK's me, which also IC's whoever I targeted or no kills and gives us a free lynch.
That puts us in day 4 with at worst 2 IC's out of 8 players. Then you vig 2 people which gives an additional IC (you) for 3 IC's out of 6 in the worst case.

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(I'm counting Kat as an IC here; Arguably Gaiden's card should be an IC as well, but that's up for debate)

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Elbirn's role is useless when hebi's exists and your role is only worth 1 IC. (Because vigs aren't that good)

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Hebi claimed a card crush + investigation. So we're using that

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Nah, hebi's claim is probably town. It probably is just DLE or some bullshit like that.

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You guys should be more serious about setup spec imo. Hebi's claim includes a delay in receiving information as a balancing factor. Does that make sense for scum? Probably not. Does it make flavor sense? Yes. And the only info that would be powerful enough to warrant that would be an alignment cop.

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VOTE: DLE
I guess.

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DLE claiming cop would more or less confirm a cop fake-claim. Idk how many investigations you think are in this game though.

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Also, what possible reason is there for DLE to not claim now? Or anyone for that matter. With 1 to 2 people being confirmed every day, there's only a vanishing possibility that someone's claim is going to be so great that scum will just need to take it out.

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It's extremely frustrating how much everyone's dragging their feet. We should have claims from everyone along with the opportunity to check them for flavor congruence and setup balance. If you're going to lynch me go ahead and do it, but don't act like you're following a plan or being reasonable by waiting until deadline unless you plan on doing something in the mean time.

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I have no interest in claiming and see no reason to give the remaining scum an easier job of optimizing their kills

You getting killed in the next two nights is actually extremely good. I highly recommend you claim something better than your actual role, perhaps double cop.

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If you take vigs to be conf town then two vigs + 3 cops is obviously excessive vs 3 scum.

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There's no way there's four scum with 15 players, that would mean we have 3 mislynches - 2 for the two vigs

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dude

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day 1 dv is almost guaranteed to get the action off. Dunn is a day 2 cop, which is easy. Hebi is reasonably likely to get killed, but gamma isn't so much. Then there are multiple other roles apparently too valuable to claim now.

You're just being contrary, what I said is clearly true and there's no point in obfuscating it.

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3 tracker town isn't very powerful. Trackers are garbage in role madness. Cops are still good.

p-edit: 9 times out of 10 they will because it's the obvious way to do it. But even then you're suggesting that someone with a day one card gets killed in what, the 1st night phase?

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It's a day one card. There are 2 claimed day one cards and one of them is virtually useless. I have no idea why you're so invested in this line of argumentation. As it is we have roles claimed capable of confirming something like 5 or 6 people. Sure, not all of those will get off. EC probably could confirm someone as well. That's still reasonable for game balance.

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A 3 scum normal with 17 players might have one investigator, a protective, and perhaps something else. Three one-shot cops will generally be better than that by themselves.

p-edit: I didn't see that, but of course there are three. 4 is insane with multiple vigs.

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well, perhaps not by themselves, but with a grab back of other stuff certainly

p-edit: No, because it makes lylo come faster. Vigs are low utility but high impact. They're there to speed up the game.

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Given that you're voting me, you evidently think it's reasonable for scum to have such mechanics.

But it doesn't matter anyway, because we lose at parity regardless of whether a spell card could allow for some hypothetical shenanigans.

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Where?

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Scum hebi doesn't wagon me because he is basically guaranteed to be lynched after he kills you N2 and has no one to confirm his role on N3. Lynching anyone else, he'd be able to make a case to stick around until at least day 4.

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Tbf, scum hebi is extremely screwed regardless of what happens, but I still believe his claim.

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Ok, so we've got
Kat: d1 restricted vig
Dunn: no card-targeted cop
Elbirn: Card destroyer
Hebi: Card destroyer + one phase delayed cop - Doremy Sweet
DLE: vig of some kind
Gamma: double vig - (Komachi "valued life, unvalued life" maybe???)
TG - JK + mass rolecop
Gaiden - unkillable slay king
SP - late-game potato
Lexa, purrc, KK unclaimed

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KK implied that she targets L-1 people. Both cops target people with broken spell cards, and the only people who are restricted to targeting people with spellcards are Gamma and HS if his claim is to be partially believed.
I think that ties in to EC's spellcard, which by flavor absolutely has to be the ability to copy his target's spellcard. In spite of a lot of redundancy in claims, I'm the only claimed rolecop.

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Eh, KK said she wanted them collated anyway. I think it's worth thinking about.

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Point is that I doubt I'm the only rolecop, not that I'm town by that measure.

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All I'm getting out of this really is that Gaiden and Purrc should be back on the table because this setup is nutty, so it's possible scum actually does have a mechanic like Gaiden is claiming or he's counting on never getting checked.

I don't want to lynch a claimed cop or vig, so if people want to flash Gaiden, SP or Elbirn with strong preference toward the first two, I'm ok with that. Otherwise I'll self-vote if I have to.

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Last note about Gaiden. My role has as a night action a natural extension of the day role. Gaiden has claimed nothing. He is certainly not full-claiming.

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uh, I haven't been hammered, whaat are you guys talking about?

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I mean, I'll vote Gaiden for the time being. But I don't think there are 4 scum.
VOTE: Gaiden
Kiana is town because they haven't actually considered that I'm town. The town reads on her will evaporate if I flip.

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There is no way HS wasn't eating rope. After EC died HS had to die as well.
Elbirn I think.

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It's true that you act ambivalent about this stuff, but by the first time KK posted most of the town was already on board. Purrc for instance supported the wagon in spite of not being on it. KK couldn't stop that.

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Kat's right though, SP is a better target.

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My ability has as a targeted action a vote remover and a JK, which are thematically related but only have a meaningful impact during day or night respectively. You have a targeted ability which does something during the day and nothing at night.

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Everyone else has claimed abilities that are equally meaningful whenever they are used.

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Not sure what you mean, so far I've mostly seen vigs and investigators which are essentially the same whether they're used at day or night. Maybe there's an unclaimed role that isn't like that, but I haven't seen evidence of it.

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Yeah, I figured as much. The 'unless you go into more detail' thing is a little puzzling though.

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Without speccing too hard, I think some of the killing roles probably have a low chance of actually killing anyone.

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:<

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I'm town, natch. No incentive to lie here.

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I accept my death for the glory of the socialism.

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I kind of think the premises that went into scum-reading me were a little goofy, it's not like I was actually lobbying against killing either of BS or HS. But it's ok, I mostly wanted to use my SC.