Touhou UCanPick 5 - [Game Over]

[DaLetterEl]

Judging by the lack of resistance it's probably fair to say TGs Lynch doesn't end the game, though whether that's because there's four scum or not who knows

Could be TGs only angle is that they think set up spec could "clear" them? That's the only world of TG being final scum I see.

[Text Generator]

There's no way there's four scum with 15 players, that would mean we have 3 mislynches - 2 for the two vigs

[DaLetterEl]

If you take vigs to be conf town then two vigs + 3 cops is obviously excessive vs 3 scum.

This post feels like TG is hard claiming 4 scum exist

[DaLetterEl]

There's no way there's four scum with 15 players, that would mean we have 3 mislynches - 2 for the two vigs

oh and then this post happens

i've seen worse balance-wise

[Text Generator]

dude

[DaLetterEl]

dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL1Vcn8yX1g

[Lexa]

Y'all seem to be really underselling the "one action per cycle" thing

The entire reason there's multiple cops and vigges is because some are guaranteed to die before they can use their power

[Text Generator]

day 1 dv is almost guaranteed to get the action off. Dunn is a day 2 cop, which is easy. Hebi is reasonably likely to get killed, but gamma isn't so much. Then there are multiple other roles apparently too valuable to claim now.

You're just being contrary, what I said is clearly true and there's no point in obfuscating it.

[DaLetterEl]

Also from talking to Josh before gamestart, I got the sense that the host is willing to wonk out role distribution to try to make it not so metagamey. he said there was some 3 tracker town set up he made lol

[Lexa]

There are zero guarantees Katy plays the dayvig as public rather than as sniper

[Text Generator]

3 tracker town isn't very powerful. Trackers are garbage in role madness. Cops are still good.

p-edit: 9 times out of 10 they will because it's the obvious way to do it. But even then you're suggesting that someone with a day one card gets killed in what, the 1st night phase?

[Lexa]

No dude you're just overestimating the reliability of getting off spell cards in every game state

[DaLetterEl]

3 tracker town isn't very powerful. Trackers are garbage in role madness. Cops are still good.

p-edit: 9 times out of 10 they will because it's the obvious way to do it. But even then you're suggesting that someone with a day one card gets killed in what, the 1st night phase?

my point wasn't specifically off power or necessarily made in opposition to you (although I lean more towards agreeing with Lexa); it was an aside to the general metagaming going on re: roles and such

[Text Generator]

It's a day one card. There are 2 claimed day one cards and one of them is virtually useless. I have no idea why you're so invested in this line of argumentation. As it is we have roles claimed capable of confirming something like 5 or 6 people. Sure, not all of those will get off. EC probably could confirm someone as well. That's still reasonable for game balance.

[Lexa]

Lol are you seriously trying to push this on me

I said "ya there might be four scum we don't know" and you're adamantly defending that there can only ever be three

[Text Generator]

A 3 scum normal with 17 players might have one investigator, a protective, and perhaps something else. Three one-shot cops will generally be better than that by themselves.

p-edit: I didn't see that, but of course there are three. 4 is insane with multiple vigs.

[DaLetterEl]

A 3 scum normal with 17 players might have one investigator, a protective, and perhaps something else. Three one-shot cops will generally be better than that by themselves.

p-edit: I didn't see that, but of course there are three. 4 is insane with multiple vigs.

doesn't extra vigs make 4 MORE likely?

[Text Generator]

well, perhaps not by themselves, but with a grab back of other stuff certainly

p-edit: No, because it makes lylo come faster. Vigs are low utility but high impact. They're there to speed up the game.

[Lexa]

How is it insane exactly if we have known vote manipulation mechanics that do not ensure that lylo is reached if the vigges misshoot

[Text Generator]

Given that you're voting me, you evidently think it's reasonable for scum to have such mechanics.

But it doesn't matter anyway, because we lose at parity regardless of whether a spell card could allow for some hypothetical shenanigans.

[DaLetterEl]

How is it insane exactly if we have known vote manipulation mechanics that do not ensure that lylo is reached if the vigges misshoot

probably missing the context here; is this referring to gaiden's role?

[Lexa]

Iirc human claimed vote manip too

[Text Generator]

Where?

[Lexa]

Oh I guess he didn't I was thinking of this

Regardless some setup spec before I get nuked

Seems like the main utility we have in cards is
a. Vote count trickery (we have Kats role as an example and the fact that fg is intentionally distancing votecounts, I doubt that'd be for just one role)
B. The status of whether somebody has or hasn't used their spell card, and also crushing said spellcards
(Dunn can cop cardcrushed players, elbirn can crush a players card, I can cop two players with cards and crush one)

[Dunnstral]

Again, I find it strange that Hebi is basically a cc of human's claim but only claimed after human got vigged