Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Taly]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

I will say,

Jimmy's

posts seem fabricated, I just haven't found a reason to think he's formed noteworthy opinions himself yet.

After skimming, I’m not interested in A50, Creature, Pearl, Sando, or Taly. I don’t really know what to do with Aneninen, Jimmy, Kop, and texcat but I see the Jimmy is being wagoned. Will re-read him first before taking a closer look at the others.

Very interested in Asuka, Fitz, and profii.

Yeah, could you elaborate on your reads here?

Also, do you have ANY commentary on

Mathdino

or

doomfeathers'

play this game?

Do you see any value in pursuing

Jimmy

right now? You talked about him in 896, but you haven't landed a vote anywhere.

right just re-reading the thread a bit, i was looking at Sando vs Taly and I can't see that as TvS... kinda unlikely that it would be scum theater to me so I'll call them both town for now.


I think Ausuka is town as well - i dont see why it's a problem to be more interested in peoples interpretations of other players motivations, rather than asking people directly - how can we trust anyones word pre-conf-towning - if they are just lying, they will just continue, i'm far more interested in what someone thinks someone else might be up to, it's harder to come up with a rationale for someone else thats made up than make up your own story. But anyway, I get that Ausuka is taking Taly's word for recent posts... so moving on...


Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Ugh,

profii

, I'm not going to let up until you actually decide to engage with me and answer my posts.

Considering that you think it's possibly weird that

Ausuka's

taking my word for the posts, I'm assuming you probably don't?

I don't see the purpose of looking into this

Sando V Taly Round 2

thing right now, it was a waste of time.

It was good to at least know that in

Sando's

perspective, 872, my opinions, thoughts, and pushes in this game are worth shit and I have 0 credibility.

Honestly, I agree with his assessment because of how much people are

TALKING AT/ABOUT ME, AND NOT TO ME.

Just a little salty today. I'm not mad, tho.

~

P-Edit

Texcat

, do you think

Jimmy-profii

could be connected? Is your read on them independent of the other?

[profii]

I never said it was weird that she was taking your word

I find it weird that she can't see why someone would want to ask. It tells me she trusts you - why would she trust anyone in a game where only the scum have trust between them?

Interesting that you are making assumptions and you are both scum reading me though

[profii]

Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Uhhh...So Jimmy is likely to flip scum, but you're voting me because I'm voting him. In what universe does that make sense?

LUV, welcome and thanks for 896, it makes me feel more positive in my Jimmy vote.

im voting you for being on a number of wagons yesterday and being on a wagon today... its like you just want people to die!

[Taly]

I never said it was weird that she was taking your word

Then why are you questioning her when she quoted and took note of my explanations? 839 and 840

You keep talking around me with little stated reasoning and it's frustrating.

You also misrepped

Ausuka

in 846 as a means to say her actually LISTENING to my explanation didn't add up.

This all reads as fake.

1)

Either you don't believe my reads because you are not asking about them yourself, or trying to gauge further why I have the reads that I do.

2)

Or you do believe in them, and for some reason, you're trying to push

Ausuka

because... yeah?

I honestly do not see another probability here as to why you're posting like this. Furthermore, if it wasn't clear enough, it'd be nice to see you have an opinion on my reads if you're willing to question it.

I find it weird that she can't see why someone would want to ask.

....I don't get how you came to this conclusion. 837 is where she outlined her thoughts and it's not solely based on you asking me about my reads.

It tells me she trusts you

Um... She COULD townread me and think that my views are good discussion points? Trust in someone is NAI, specifically after D1, and plus, she has yet to truly elaborate on her read with me.

Or she could think that - after multiple people have questioned me on the SAME thing - that asking that question won't change her current view of me or the game?

Or, she could also just think there's better reasons to engage with me.

That's more than what I can say for a good portion of the playerlist.

- why would she trust anyone in a game where only the scum have trust between them?

So automatically taking someone's explanation and listening to it not only entails:

- Unusual amount of trust
- Trust can only be Scum-Scum interaction

That's the message I'm taking here.

Interesting that you are making assumptions and you are both scum reading me though

Nice.

After 2 posts from me directed to you with little or no response 813 867, this is the conclusion you come to, while making a weakly-formulated associative on

me+Ausuka

WITHOUT pushing it... What are you doing with the

Texcat

vote again?

Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Uhhh...So Jimmy is likely to flip scum, but you're voting me because I'm voting him. In what universe does that make sense?

LUV, welcome and thanks for 896, it makes me feel more positive in my Jimmy vote.

im voting you for being on a number of wagons yesterday and being on a wagon today... its like you just want people to die!

LOL. Wow, this is almost as funny as

Jay

shitposting to deflect my push on him. Not to say that this is shitposting, but it's ineffective.

Seems like a theme here.

1)

Why is being on wagons bad for town in D1? Literally, there's no information and jumping on wagons could be a means to get discussion going for later references. Could you at least elaborate on

Texcat's

votes on wagons being scummy...? ._.

2)

I can't take the

"its like you just want people to die!"

seriously, LOL. You don't ask questions, it looks like you're putting up a vote and finding reasons to justify it without saying

"let's look at this"

.

3)

Still don't fully understand your perspective on

Ausuka

and I? You say my interaction with

Sando

is TvT, but you point out that that 'engagement' with

Ausuka

is off?

Followed by your votes and explanations, I'm seeing this as less likely to come from a town POV.

[Ausuka]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

Creature has more posts than anyone else this game. He's been less active recently but meh. His posts might not have a lot of content individually but they do have a lot when you put them all together considering how often he can post.

I feel like there's a definite distinction between fitz's play and Jimmy's play. Fitz hasn't been here and he's been on VLA a lot iirc. Jimmy's been here but his posts are pretty empty and useless.

[Ausuka]

Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

LOL. You must not have played with Creature then.

VOTE: Aneninen who had me fooled last game

She may be cute, but I don't think that's a very good reason to follow her.

VOTE: Jaydragon

Texcat's first 2 votes. Possible scum team?

I'm after half of the playerlist. Or more. Why is everyone so interested in my Texcat-read?

Why shouldn't we be interested in a read you claim to have?

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

But you do have a point seeing as texcat wasn't the only player you'd scumread.

Like these posts are the epitome of useless and hedgy. What do they bring to the table? Nothing.

I'm tired right now so I'll respond to the rest tomorrow morning.

[Sando]

Creature has more posts than anyone else this game. He's been less active recently but meh. His posts might not have a lot of content individually but they do have a lot when you put them all together considering how often he can post.

I looked into this Day 1, he had about 3 times as many posts as me, but by wordcount we were exactly the same. Given he's now twice as much as me, he hasn't actually put out a huge amount of content. It's been over 3 days now for Creature and Shad, and over 2 days for Jimmy and Fitz.

[Sando]

Did a bit of an experience dive on Jimmy.

He subbed in a lot later in Open 693

Just had a read, this was abandoned yes? Reasonable to draw conclusions?

In that same post, he feels that Creature didn’t answer his question which doesn’t make sense as well. I’ve never seen anyone use independent to describe third-party and if I didn’t know any better, I would’ve assumed Jimmy was referring to music. Noting that Creature didn’t answer is confusing because Jimmy did not attempt to clarify why he’s inquiring or what he meant.

I've heard Independant a few times.

The push from Jimmy on Creature does strike me as scum trying to look busy. There was basically zero attempt to actually lynch or pressure Creature, and points were not followed up. Creature is an easy target for this, as long as you're prepared to wear an OMGUS without over-reacting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Taly, I’m not really good at articulating reads and/or people I would rather not lynch on a specific day but I’ll do my best.

I liked Almost50 voting for Creature right out the gate and elaborating about Creature’s meta when you asked. Almost50 is also very competent as scum. This is important to note because to an unfamiliar crowd, Creature is very easy to get lynched and even better in some cases to leave in order to end game. I just don’t think scum Almost50 opts to go for the easy Creature lynch early on. Claiming to be a doctor at L-5 also doesn’t seem like something scum him would do.

Creature is engaged and actually posting. Unless he’s suddenly figured out how to replicate his town meta as scum, he’s town here. I will begin to only look at him a lot more closely if he’s still alive around end game.

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking. I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned. It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

I can empathize and follow his reasoning in 215 for his awkwardness and suspicion he’s drawn early on. The way he claims to do things matches up with 142 and 183. The reads also given in this post seem genuine.

Sando because I can follow where the former of 40 is coming from. I played a Newbie with Sando a few months back and to make a long story short, Creature was scum, basically did nothing, and won. “So yeah lack of engagement gets my juices flowing on Creature.” reads very eager to not only be confident that Creature is scum here but to actually lynch him.

I haven’t read a lot of the long-winded posts from Sando but I’ll be happy to re-read any you feel are important. At a glance, his posting reminds me of that Newbie.

As for you, I liked your initial read on Pearl in 58 and your thoughts on the early Creature wagon. You like Sando, have had posts which I just didn’t bother to read catching up.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

As for the second list, those are people that have not struck an impression on me so far on an intital skim. I am aware that Aneninen and Kop has a decent amount of content so I will re-read both shortly.

I didn’t like Ausuka for his focus on Pearl and TGP.

Fitz has some god awful votes and just reads like he’s coasting. I know that he’s constantly v/LA but every vote he’s has casted lacks conviction.

profii at times seems to be just posting to look likes he’s active and contributing. A lot of empty posting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn’t read either of my predecessors posts.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I want to see what Jimmy has to say in response to me recalling my experince with him.

I also want to get more of a read on players in my null pile.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Did a bit of an experience dive on Jimmy.

He subbed in a lot later in Open 693

Just had a read, this was abandoned yes? Reasonable to draw conclusions?

In that same post, he feels that Creature didn’t answer his question which doesn’t make sense as well. I’ve never seen anyone use independent to describe third-party and if I didn’t know any better, I would’ve assumed Jimmy was referring to music. Noting that Creature didn’t answer is confusing because Jimmy did not attempt to clarify why he’s inquiring or what he meant.

I've heard Independant a few times.

The push from Jimmy on Creature does strike me as scum trying to look busy. There was basically zero attempt to actually lynch or pressure Creature, and points were not followed up. Creature is an easy target for this, as long as you're prepared to wear an OMGUS without over-reacting.

Nah, town surrendered.

I think it’s fair.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can’t get through Aneninen’s ISO without being annoyed. How should I be reading him?

[Sando]

Mine? Soft-town lean. Anen however is the main person who D1 who went "whoa we can't lynch an A50 doc claim" then blithely lynched another doc claim. I haven't seen any other interactions that struck me as scummy though, atm I'm soft town but I find him a very hard read. I'd put money on him not being SK though. I don't think an SK wants kill reasonings brought up late-game.

Here's mine.

[Sando]

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking. I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned. It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

What's going on here LUV? I don't understand any of these references, elaborate?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking. I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned. It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

What's going on here LUV? I don't understand any of these references, elaborate?

Pearl’s 43. Specifically his comments in regards to my first predecessor, Doom. He didn’t want him lynched right away and I recall him getting some heat for that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So the first part of Kop’s 107 feels forced. Asks questions that lead nowhere and sound like they’re trying to make something out of nothing.

I still don’t like 158. I understand they followed this up shortly after in 160, but there was no games presented for us to look at it, so it was hard for anyone to really follow. They also acknowledge that TGP hadn’t posted much. Meaning they acknowledged that there was not enough information to compare and contrast. So for them to have been so confident in their meta read here makes no sense to me.

I don’t get why the reads list warrants a vote in 777. They focus just on the scum reads given but there is a good amount of town reads in that list that they could’ve asked about to see if Jimmy is plagiarizing or not.

[Sando]

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking.

I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned.

It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

What's going on here LUV? I don't understand any of these references, elaborate?

Pearl’s 43. Specifically his comments in regards to my first predecessor, Doom. He didn’t want him lynched right away and I recall him getting some heat for that.

Not what I at least found him scummy for. Also are you saying the bolded part is a towntell?

[texcat]

Texcat

, do you think

Jimmy-profii

could be connected? Is your read on them independent of the other?

I started with an independent scum read on Jimmy, although he's got so little content that it was not a strong read.

But after Profii's 895, they certainly could be connected. Profii looks a lot like scum trying desperately to find a wagon. He is throwing shade on you and Ausuka. He voted me because I was on a few wagons on D1?? And yet he thinks Jimmy is likely to flip scum. If he is scum in search of a wagon, then surely he could have voted Jimmy. There's a wagon already made for him.

Jimmy doesn't have enough content to read properly. But his vote on me for my RVS votes was atrocious. If Jimmy flips scum, Profii is scum. If Jimmy flips town, I'm not so sure about Profii. If Profii flips scum, Jimmy is scum. If Profii flips town, I think it's NAI for Jimmy.

I'm willing to vote for either one of them at this point. Unfortunately, I can't vote both of them.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking.

I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned.

It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

What's going on here LUV? I don't understand any of these references, elaborate?

Pearl’s 43. Specifically his comments in regards to my first predecessor, Doom. He didn’t want him lynched right away and I recall him getting some heat for that.

Not what I at least found him scummy for. Also are you saying the bolded part is a towntell?

Well could you talk about why you did?

I went back to why you had first voted for him and I don’t really follow your reasoning. Just because the pace wasn’t slow and the difficulty of the games was described as hard, doesn’t mean he can’t be unsure. Confidence has nothing to do with pace or difficulty level.

I don’t get why you voted for him again in 772. His reasoning for being suspicious of Almost and my predecessor reads like newb town.

Then the third time, you reiterate reasoning that’s ultimately NAI.

[Sando]

Well could you talk about why you did?

416 is basically that Shad claims to come from a "hard and fast" background, but is extremely tentative here. I don't find that believable.

772 is basically saying that Shad is faking newbishness. There's newbishness in terms of using incorrect scumreads etc, and there's newbishness in the "hay guyz I'm new!!". Shad feels like they're faking the latter, they're logic may be wonky, but it strikes me as a sudden spurt of competency that isn't naturally learned.

[havingfitz]

shadpearl is town for this so

how?

Replacing Mathdino.
Please do not speculate on the events which led to it.

Sooooo....no town pass for Shad. Got it.

[havingfitz]

busy IRL

^

[havingfitz]

What makes you think scum would blatantly contradict themselves like that? Why didn’t you ask him to clarify what he meant?

I don't like contradictions.
For early game non rvs pressure I'm fine using it for a vote.
I didn't ask because I didn't care for a reason.