Large Normal 211: Scientific Mafia

[Nictis]

Hypeeeeee.

That's not big enough

HYPE!

VOTE: Archwing

Hello again NSG!

[Nictis]

I'm gonna try something: for this I'm gonna lurk out the first irl day or so

Imma make this short and simple.

I'm in a neighborhood with Gamma Emerald. I'm an ascetic miller also. No other info will be given.

Ascetic Miller. That's... Interesting.

So if I'm reading this right and not mixing up terms, you're claiming to come up guilty to investigations, and that anyone who visits you will be roleblocked (Including investigators)

and

you are sharing a chat with someone.

So... Why shouldn't I think you're mafia here?
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Nictis]

So... Why shouldn't I think you're mafia here?

ascetic miller seems a bit overkill for a fakeclaim doesn't it? Especially one that's not in response to anything in particular.

This claim in general is leaving me baffled, I can only think of two possible reasons for it, one of which requires him to be a fool and the other is too convoluted. It doesn't make sense him to make such a... contradictory claim, especially given that there was no attention on him. So it gives me a pretty bad vibe, and has me frowning at him outing his buddy like that.

[Nictis]

I completely failed to respond to that post. Ascetic Miller isn't overkill for a fakeclaim, it's just wrong. "You can't visit me but if you could I would come up as scum," doesn't make sense.

[Nictis]

I completely failed to respond to that post. Ascetic Miller isn't overkill for a fakeclaim, it's just wrong. "You can't visit me but if you could I would come up as scum," doesn't make sense.

Just because it's redundant doesn't make it wrong. Mods make shit like that all the time just to make a role hard to claim outright. He also hasn't fully expanded on the nature of his role. It could be an X-shot ascetic miller. Or ascetic comes with some heavy asterisks. Or he's just paraphrasing his role name. There's a lot of possibilities.

I'll be honest, I had to visit the wiki to remember what Ascetic was. A 'Reflexive' role doesn't seem like one that is an X-Shot thing.
It could be that Assembler did something like that, but why? The only valuable use I can see Town having for an X-Shot weak Commuter (Which is what it would be functionally) is to prevent scum Roleblocking a different ability that he can use. He can dodge being roleblocked, healed, watched, or investigated, but not killed. We can't track him to see if he kills someone, we can't heal him after he turned himself into a target, we can't watch his house for the killer, we can't investigate him (And if we could we'd get a guilty result?)

It being something hard to claim doesn't seem right either, if it's just redundant then why even bring up that he's a Miller? Stick with Ascetic and you're good.

If we can't verify anything about him, or protect him, why keep him around? If he shows himself to be Town then we can trust Gamma to a point. If he shows himself to be something else then we have another person to look at that he volunteered.


He claimed Miller, which is something that I personally raise my eyebrow towards. In addition to claiming Miller, he claimed that visiting him is pointless, and has said he's sharing a chat. All of these are ticking boxes in my head that yell 'SCUM.'
Comes up guilty to investigation: Check
Collusion with another player: Check
Tells Town not to visit them: Check

It could be that his role is strange, that there's a reason I can't think of, or that he's bold scum. I just know that the claim itself doesn't make sense at face value, and that it's easier for me to assign scum reasoning to it than a possible Town role.

A couple reasons for my vote I suppose.

[Nictis]

Easter Weekend, been busy. Catching up on thread now.

Ascetic miller neighbor claim is probably a joke.

VOTE: Nictis

It's a chainsaw defense, but I'll roll with this for now.

I'm afraid I don't know what a chainsaw defense is.

Nictis is town.

I agree with this, he has few games and his post with checks seem too pure to be scum. If mafla had daychat though, maybe I would think about it different but Im p sure that mafia only has a daychat when there is a encrptor, right?

I should probably mention I have some games on another site. Also, is it usual for roles to subvert the rules on MS?

I'm gonna try something: for this I'm gonna lurk out the first irl day or so

Imma make this short and simple.

I'm in a neighborhood with Gamma Emerald. I'm an ascetic miller also. No other info will be given.

Ascetic Miller. That's... Interesting.

So if I'm reading this right and not mixing up terms, you're claiming to come up guilty to investigations, and that anyone who visits you will be roleblocked (Including investigators)

and

you are sharing a chat with someone.

So... Why shouldn't I think you're mafia here?
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This is projecty and false advertising. I don’t really know what i mean when I say false advertising. But this is it.

VOTE: Nicitis

Basically, they’re saying exactly what is the “right” way of playing, and using it in terms of pushing without taking in facts otherwise.

I’m not strong on this, and I’ll likely change my mind next page, but I want to see where it goes. I need a better sense of who Nic is before I go too hard.

This isn't projecting, this is me asking why I shouldn't consider you to be mafia when you say you are sharing a chat, will come up guilty to investigators, and that you shouldn't be visited. I never said anything about the 'Right' way to play mafia, I said I found your claim to be bullshit and gave you a line to respond. You making up things and claiming that is what I said isn't exactly making me more inclined to think you're Town.

Ah man, PINE! Haven’t seen that name in a while. You were in one of my favorite games on site years ago. I even based my last 21p large off that triple neighborhood game Aegor setup.

Just putting it out there, the Boon babes out there already know I do this crap as town to better my own reads.

I had a two and a half year undefeated scum streak, I know how to play scum.

This isn’t playing right as a scum case on me generally means BoonTown.

Forgive me for my skepticism, but I'm not planning on taking the point 'I am too good at scum for you to find me' as a point towards you being Town.

Imma just vig the whole neighborhood, mmkay?

Day kill: Inferno

I'm as serious as a head wound.

So what's the flip? Impatient.

It's literally going to be Town Neighbor. Can y'all lynch Pine for me? Thanks.
Oh well. I have a lot on my plate at the moment anyways, so it's not all bad.

P-edit: Day SK perhaps?

Ah, oh well. This is what I was fishing for. Daykill is fake.

Maintaining claim is NAI. Was hoping inferno was inexperienced enough to be cop to being scum.

... Fuck you. I have a general Towny feeling from you right now, but still.


I'm probably going to have to read through everything after page 7 again later. I feel like I didn't draw anything out of that and there is definitely stuff to look at.

if you two could have an argument and actually make statements supporting your conclusions that would be nice and helpful and alignment indicative

Mafia isn’t science

looks at game title

[Nictis]

So I’m giving him a chance here. I guess his gambit is make himself so untrustable he gets himself copped and has the luxury of being conf town until scum decide we can’t have a conf town in the game.

Idk but overall if you are intentionally putting yourself in the position of “you are all so unsure of me you need to cop me” then I am guessing town

But idk because that is the weirdest claim

Eh, even if it is just a joke claim (Which I hear he does on a regular basis) it's one that makes it a bit more unlikely for him to get copped. Plenty of other people for the cop to check instead of the guy who's saying he can't be investigated or will turn up guilty if he is.

Right now I mostly don't like how he claimed that I was saying something I never did.

[Nictis]

@Nictis a chainsaw defense is when one's scumbuddy attacks the person accusing their partner.

A and B are scum. C calls A scummy. B attacks C.

This is fairly basic Mafia theory. I don't mean to insult, but have you been to the Newbie forum? There are lots of helpful people there who will guide you through your first games. I'd do so, but this isn't the game for it. I'm only educating incidentally out of a desire to win.

Ah, didn't recognize the term used. Knew the idea, not the name.

I got lynched for asking questions in my first Newbie game, and I don't really remember the second game. I think that was when I had some IRL issues and it was just less important.

[Nictis]

So I’m giving him a chance here. I guess his gambit is make himself so untrustable he gets himself copped and has the luxury of being conf town until scum decide we can’t have a conf town in the game.

Idk but overall if you are intentionally putting yourself in the position of “you are all so unsure of me you need to cop me” then I am guessing town

But idk because that is the weirdest claim

Eh, even if it is just a joke claim (Which I hear he does on a regular basis) it's one that makes it a bit more unlikely for him to get copped. Plenty of other people for the cop to check instead of the guy who's saying he can't be investigated or will turn up guilty if he is.

Right now I mostly don't like how he claimed that I was saying something I never did.

yea the last sentence of my post is me agreeing with all of your post

I get to a point where I think if I keep lynching FLs fake claims then it beccomes
Policy: stop FL being an idiot

It’s the particular role that really bugs me on this one but I want to leave him alone, it’s like a scab you’re not supposed to pick !

I s2g you guys are all out of your gourds. I know why he claimed it and it was to poke fun at me. Stop obsessing over a meme.

I don't care much for the claim, but he still tried to discredit me for no discernible reason. The joke caught my attention, his response holds it. Check post 69.

[Nictis]

I don't care much for the claim, but he still tried to discredit me for no discernible reason. The joke caught my attention, his response holds it. Check post 69.

idk like his logic seems fine to me in that post. He's basically saying "you think xyz is what you would do so it's what I would do, but it's not".

Except that absolutely none of what he posted applied to my own post?

Ascetic Miller. That's... Interesting.

So if I'm reading this right and not mixing up terms, you're claiming to come up guilty to investigations, and that anyone who visits you will be roleblocked (Including investigators)

and

you are sharing a chat with someone.

So... Why shouldn't I think you're mafia here?
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This is projecty and false advertising. I don’t really know what i mean when I say false advertising. But this is it.

VOTE: Nicitis

Basically, they’re saying exactly what is the “right” way of playing, and using it in terms of pushing without taking in facts otherwise.

I’m not strong on this, and I’ll likely change my mind next page, but I want to see where it goes. I need a better sense of who Nic is before I go too hard.

What part of saying what his claim meant is false advertising? What part of voting him for a contradictory claim is projecting? How is calling someone out on bullshit telling them the "right" way to play mafia? And 'pushing without taking in facts otherwise' is an awfully interesting thing to say I'm doing when I show what his claim means, and in the post that I quoted he said he wasn't going to provide any other info?

Instead of responding to my question, he lied about what I said and put both suspicion and a vote on me. Painting suspicion on someone who calls you out on a fakeclaim doesn't seem like a very innocent thing to do does it?

[Nictis]

I wanted to do links because I didn't want a massive quote wall, but no one pays attention to links it seems. Unfortunately as I said a wall will also make people ignore my thoughts, and multiple individual quotes will come off as spam. So I guess my verdict on the new playstyle is that there is no good way to engage people with my thoughts.

I feel you there.

VOTE: Nictis

I think north side might be scum btw

I think I'll just raise my eyebrow here and wait for some actual thoughts and reasoning.

[Nictis]

scumleaning pine for 128

scumreading gamma for 161

inferno can be town for 166

if you want explanations just ask, focused more on catching up than typing all my thoughts out

I am curious about what part of gamma's post gave you a scum vibe.

I think north side might be scum btw

Yeah I was looking through the lurkers and I'm feeling it too.

feeling it in what way? i can understand where firebringer may be coming from – what gives

you

that impression?

I'm curious about this as well, as far as I can tell firebringer was just throwing around votes and suspicions to see what reasoning people provide for agreeing with him.

huh

this honestly feels rehearsed and like scum theatre
so i am going to go ahead and scum-read northsidegal and firebringer

of the two i do not have a preference and since i just noticed the rules do not forbid this

if 1 i will vote northsidegal
if 2 i will vote firebringer

Original Roll String: 1d2 (STATIC)

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[i look forward to this being used as an example of why provable randomness should/should not be allowed]

Verifiable randomness is bad, mkay? Splitting it between your two suspicions isn't really random to me so much as showing that you think either or both of them need to die, but if you had rolled like a D20 then I'd be voting you for it.

But what about me makes you assume that I would reverse anything with a teammate.

This is supposed to say rehearsal

This is a deflection tactic. Highly sus.

it felt rehearsed and that they had more than one thread to talk in

First off:
Masons.

All joking aside though, scum don't have daytalk. How do you propose resolving this statement?

we already have a neighborhood
so i have one question
does the neighborhood have daytalk

Yes they do.

[Nictis]

Verifiable randomness is bad, mkay? Splitting it between your two suspicions isn't really random to me so much as showing that you think either or both of them need to die, but if you had rolled like a D20 then I'd be voting you for it.

What do you think a vote would do?

Absolutely nothing, except show that I am willing to kill him on policy.

[Nictis]

Recent vote count says UCV requested replacement..

Why didn’t you unvote, profii?

Recent vote count says UCV requested replacement..

Why didn’t you unvote, profii?

Think about it...

Probably because there was all of a minute difference in the posts?

Just caught up to the thread, still internalizing everything. I was going to comment on how Gamma seemed to be arguing very strongly for FlavorLeaf but they seem to have realized that themselves. Normally I would attribute that to them being in a neighborhood together, but the other three seem to have made it clear that they don't plan on trusting it, and Gamma has turned on Inferno already.

Actually, I think I'll still bring it up because some things seem off when I look at it. In 161 you line profii up as Town and Pine as scum for taking Flavor's claim seriously. I don't quite understand your quote of 94.

94:

In addition to pushing Flavor on something that's completely NAI and by Pine's logic should be town

, Pine also pushes Profii on something that honestly is a fair point if I didn't have a very clear intent for my lurking. I'm sorry Pine but the trend continues of you rolling scum and I've got you by the tail.

What logic are you quoting here for that? What are you actually reading as scum here?

321 has you ignoring my point about him lying to discredit me.
327 has you nodding along with what he said, even though it was false.
477/484 is never brought up again. Not incredibly important, but should be a point to consider nonetheless.
567 is probably just meant as "Many people have said he fake claims often Two, stop" but it seems to be pretty strongly saying that the proof of Flavor being Town is obvious and every point has already been refuted.
682 is an acknowledgement. The only thing that bothers me here is that you had ignored my own posts (301, 330) bringing up some similar points (Missing the political reads though) Pine wrote it out in a way that was clearer, but the points had been made and ignored before.
712 shows an interesting point where Flavor Leaf lied in the thread or in the hood. Not exactly like your questioning in 484, but similar enough to note.

[Nictis]

Not really, it's mostly me looking at Emerald's ISO and lining up the things I want to question. His scum reads on Pine don't seem to make a lot of sense, his recent post encouraging LUV to think profii is scum seems off with his previous behavior, he has ignored and dismissed points made against FL if the post containing it even mentions FL's claim.

It seems like they defend FL too much, and some of it by just ignoring good points against them in favor of ridiculing the original reason our attention was grabbed.

Pedit: Yeah, I'm not saying lynch Gamma right now, I find their defenses strange but I'm a lot more focused on FL being scum.

[Nictis]

So does Mulch usually open up by making friends? It seems like they put some pretty confident claims on what everyone's faction is and then tried to buddy up with Emerald. It's giving me bad vibes.

Like, one minute to ISO nsg and Townlock them, 3 minutes to call out Nos, 3 minutes to ISO and call FL and Beef as Prob. Town and Def. Town, and 1 to lock TwoInAMillion as Town. This doesn't seem like "Just catching up now" to me, it feels prepared in a way.

Probably just paranoia on my part, but most people I know take longer than a minute to read through all of someone's posts, decide what they are, and then actually type out their decision.

[Nictis]

Honestly I'm losing confidence in my reads again XD

Maybe i'm just wrong

I'm sometimes just bad, especially when I don't put in full effort

Really, let's just lynch a not-so-amazing player who also COULD be a wolf on day 1, maybe make some wagons, get some info, then move on.

Maybe if you took longer than a minute to make them you'd feel more confident about your reads.

I feel like you're Town, but I also feel like your entrance is a lie. You lined up with Gamma and FL too quickly and seem to just be gathering supporters and dismissing anyone who isn't a supporter. I want you to explain your town reads.

So first off, maybe this is a bit OMGUS, but Mulch's enterance is so scumfrickery that it's stupid. Really aggressive and a lot of just spewing "reads' without opinions. Plus, a lot of what I'm seeing so far for his reason to vote me is bull. By his logic, anyone who consistently is joining wagons on "town" is scummy?

Yes, people who vote only town are scummy

You haven't explained any of your reads, and while I agree on a few I feel safe in saying it's just because of the amount you put out. Saying that you know the scum because they've been voting pure Town on

Day 1

is an incredible arrogance

at best

.

So does Mulch usually open up by making friends? It seems like they put some pretty confident claims on what everyone's faction is and then tried to buddy up with Emerald. It's giving me bad vibes.

Like, one minute to ISO nsg and Townlock them, 3 minutes to call out Nos, 3 minutes to ISO and call FL and Beef as Prob. Town and Def. Town, and 1 to lock TwoInAMillion as Town. This doesn't seem like "Just catching up now" to me, it feels prepared in a way.

Probably just paranoia on my part, but most people I know take longer than a minute to read through all of someone's posts, decide what they are, and then actually type out their decision.

Yes, I do this all the time

It's NAI for me

I'm great scum, but I have great reads as town

Determine my alignment on whether i lynch scum or not.

I still mostly feel like you're an arrogant Townie, but there is a part of me questioning if you are perhaps a lyncher. It matches up with you getting so close to Emerald (That initial vote on Inferno helps) and the entirety of your reasoning for lynching Nos is that you know him better than everyone else. You aren't really offering other people for us to lynch, and you're saying we should take your lynch first before questioning you because of your reputation.

I'm reading you as working for Town benefit, but your actions also suggest Lyncher to me.


How about this, for someone who doesn't know the community here, explain why Nos is scum instead of just demanding everyone sheep you or saying we will know your alignment by how he flips.

[Nictis]

-Is lyncher normal? I thought it wasn't IIRC.

Huh. Didn't realize that it was disallowed here. I guess I'll correct that feeling.

[Nictis]

PEDIT: Blegh. I started making this post back on page 42 and forgot to finish it. I'll just post it for now and play catch up later. (Removed my vote change because I don't know what's going on)

hi quick.

can you read firebringer? i need help.

I may not be Quick, but I personally read Fire as Town. Their posts seem to serve a purpose in seeing who aligns themself with who.

can someone tell me what the fuck they find suspicious about beef because I think he's town and no one has given a solid read other than like nsg and even then I didn't get much out of it

Some of the things he has said has been a big "wut?" to me. I can try and fish out quotes but I think he said somethings that just don't make any Goddamn sense.

Idk I feel like what he's said is sensible and also feels natural

Like how you felt that FL was sensible and accurate when they said I was trying to dictate the 'Right' way to play Mafia?

Anyone wanna help me Lynch TwoInAMillion? I really don't like either of the top two wagons.

I'm down with it. His original reasoning for voting FL seemed to be based on FL being a threat, and his recent activities are pretty sketchy.

I disagree with most of Inferno's read list.

VOTE: Inferno

Ascetic miller neighbor claim is probably a joke.

VOTE: Nictis

It's a chainsaw defense, but I'll roll with this for now.

Rather than descend into the dpeths of madness wrt the claim he decides it's a joke. I feel like scum would prefer to hop on it. Could be possibly he's trying to play as the deep wolf here but the thought still feels fresh.

yeah, that's a shallow read and his reason for voting Nictis is based on chainsaw defense which is extremely weak.

Flavor Leaf is town.
Fakeclaiming to get out of RVS is just not something I see coming from scum.

A very nuanced thought imo, even though the read on the situation is wrong.

You think THAT is nuanced? Flavor could be doing anything and it ends up a big pile of nothing. It's not a nuanced read/thought, it's reading a player as Town who hasn't done a damn thing out of their Scum range.

FoS: 2inamillion

I'll back off FL amid public pressure but I still think he's scum ftr.

UNVOTE:

Okay. I don't even care if this is a lolhammer anymore.

VOTE: twoinamillion

Die, scum.

Lots of people actually got on beef's ass on these but like it's a totally sensible thing I've done before. It shows he's being careful with is vote, and only voting when he feels confident enough to not care about what the wagon state as because the possibility of hammering scum is enough to outweigh the loss of discussion.

You realize that you are encouraging YOLO hammers right? What on earth makes you think that is a good idea AT ALL? TIAM is probably the biggest lynch bait in this game and you think it's a good idea for someone to vote them for giving a read that isn't even particularly Scummy.

With Pine and Nos both zeroing in on petty details, I think I can say semi-reasonably that at least one of the two is scum.

I don't know what to say about Mulch. I could kind of see it going either way with him.

This is a pretty natural thought imo wrt to Pine and Nos

Beef gave a TvS argument and like 95%+ TvS reads I see are dead wrong. You're just encouraging poor play at this point.

I think two’s town.

wow you're terrible
I'm thinking maybe Flavorleaf and 2iam could be scum who had a planned out distancing push and townread thing
VOTE: Twoinamillion

Confirmation bias.

How the heck is this confirmation bias?

Because he says he thinks its true so it must be true. There's no actual reasoning behind it.

That's not confirmation bias. It's a theory and a vote.

Gamma, I'm starting to find your push on TIAM a little odd. Why are you berating anyone who disagrees with the wagon?

I'm interested in this in general. They seem to have a vested interest in certain players not being lynched.

[Nictis]

Catching up now, p. 43.

Flavor Leaf thinks anyone's reasons for voting him are bad. but in this case his vote looks golden.

VOTE: Quick

Let’s all just “quick”lynch the slot so Assemble doesn’t have to replace. Plus, it gets one of the neighbors out.

Now you want to remove a neighbor?

VOTE: Quick
Policy.

What policy are you talking about here?

whilst I entirely agree with the point egg is making... it's not relevant at all. sorry

It's pretty relevant, Nos was asking about why he was complaining about people calling reads 'bad' on Day 1.

Flavor Leaf thinks anyone's reasons for voting him are bad. but in this case his vote looks golden.

VOTE: Quick

lolwut
I mean Quick said something bordering on scumslip in the hood but why do you think it's a good vote?

You're just laughing at me for the sake of laughing at me.

Replacing out because you don't like someone you are playing with supposedly reiks of scum to me.

Not really? You don't want to play a game with people you hate, regardless of if you're on their team or not. Also, none of that was laughing at you.

[Nictis]

p. 44

I mean, I thought Quick was scummy anyways, and usually I can town read him easily when he’s town. This mixed in with LUV being a bit off before he replaced, along with the neighborhood, I actually scum read the slot.

In the neighborhood, he talked about trying to policy me, then went and made an alignment case rather than explain why the policy.

I actually think the slot is scum, neighborhood gets trimmed, and I feel it’s just an optimal day 1 lynch.

This makes sense.

Quick didn’t replace out because he’s scum, he replaced out because he’s scum on my blacklist, and I read him as scummy.

Quick said he wasn’t aware when he replaced in, yet in the neighborhood he brought up trying to policy before I even started posting. He then made a case on me.

He left after I started pushing back.

Replacement is NAI, but the stuff said around it is scummy to me

I'd like to see Inferno verify this because Gamma has been defending you a lot, but this seems pretty good. I'll vote Quick if I don't see something more worthwhile while catching up.

This fucking town

Just vote flubber

cut the stupid crap

Jesus fuck I come in for one normal game and it's a disaster

Can you stop making me think you're a Lyncher? Please?

Quick said he wasn’t aware when he replaced in, yet in the neighborhood he brought up trying to policy before I even started posting. He then made a case on me.

Can someone else in the hood please confirm/deny this?

I kinda doubt he'd lie when people can come in and verify like that.

I think you'd be surprised about what people lie about. Also, interpretation matters. Thats why I wanted another opinion.

@profii,

quick was allegedly pushing a policy lynch on Flavor Leaf. before he said, in game thread, that he didn't realize Flavor was in this game?

kinda fucky.

and that, ladies and gents, is enough to warrant my first vote of the game.
VOTE: Quick

^This.

Stop

If Quick pops up as scum, I'm going to be wondering why you wanted us to focus on Flubber so much that you ignored everything else.

[Nictis]

p.45

how do you know nothing about the hood...

how do you know nothing about the hood...

It MAY be because I haven't read the game, and have only Isoed

Still bet you a dollar i have better reads than most of the game

Nosferatu is scum!nos

Flubber is scum!flubber

No idea on quick

still don't know about this neighborhood

---

okay
I was basically testing you for deliberate ignorance, you passed

-Snip-
Like, one minute to ISO nsg and Townlock them, 3 minutes to call out Nos, 3 minutes to ISO and call FL and Beef as Prob. Town and Def. Town, and 1 to lock TwoInAMillion as Town. This doesn't seem like "Just catching up now" to me, it feels prepared in a way.

They claimed to ISO FlavorLeaf, Nos, Beef, NSG, and TIAM. I'm pretty sure FlavorLeaf mentioned the hood at least once considering it was part of his claim, and I know TIAM did a bit on scum having to be in the neighborhood. So there's that.

Can we actually confirm the order of Quick's post's please? Like, with a time sigs or something?

No, yeah, just checked, this is bull.

VOTE: Quick

Appreciated.

are we happy ending the day here?

Unless something worse comes up, yep. I'll maintain my suspicion on FL though.

[Nictis]

p.47

Quick wagon seems opportunistic

Quick looked scummy before the whole policy vote thing, but I find the wagon unsettling. There are probably at least 2 scum on it and FL is probably not one of them. I'm going to stay far away from a wagon that has grown by sheer opportunism.

VOTE: 2iam

Valid counterwagon.

FoS: Mulch
I feel like he's throwing a lot of ideas around but not really scumhunting.

The Quick wagon didn't seem opportunistic to me, but I might have missed something there. What makes you two think it's an attack of opportunity?

At this point, it’s not even just a lynch all liars thing for me.

It was the replace out the post after I went afternoon him, me having my paranoia on LUV, AND the slot is in the neighborhood.

It’s a perfect Day 1 lynch.

If Two is scum, I feel like that would be easy ish to figure out with more info.

But your leaning on it? If you had to say which way you'd expect Two to flip right now, would you expect Town or Scum?

What policy was Quick even trying to push? Lynch a fake claim?

As for the policy lynch, his reasoning was because Leaf has "a horrible playstyle." Which is both AtP and shit reason for a PL, so
-snip-

AtP is Appeal to Policy right? On the one hand the provided reasoning matches them not liking to play with one another, on the other that's still a pretty poor reason and he replaced out when it didn't work. Could go either way, but seems pretty easy to say he's scum now. (I'd give it 80/20 odds with what's been said so far)

[Nictis]

As the person who Two tunnels relentlessly, I don’t think any of his stuff is out of the ordinary as townTwo right now. If he’s scum, it will become obvious later. If he’s town, it’ll become extremely obvious later.

I'll have to take your word on it here, he doesn't read as Town to me right now.

Flavor leaf is extremely towny

Trust me, I know his scum game

Considering how much time you spent reading the posts and your constant demands to sheep you, I don't trust you.

I could care less about your read on me. Because one tunneling scum VI is not going to get me lynched.
And I don't care what world you're from or what meta you play, spewing AtP and one-word sentences are not "forthcoming." It's more or less a weak version of active lurking, saying things without really doing anything or contributing to town.

@All: I just read looked through TIAM's ISO, guys, and it's actually just a combination of AtP, IIOA, NAI opinion-based reads, and one word sentences that don't really contribute anything. It's really scummy.

Seems worth a read through. Will fill in opinion when I have it here.

Did an ISO, linked the posts I mention. The spoiler is big, but I think it's still important to read through. I also think that Inferno's post up there ^ is bullshit.

Spoiler:

-Early scum read on FlavorLeaf, seems to be a personal reason rather than because of the fakeclaim. (100, 104, 153, 361)
-Directs attention towards neighborhood (116, 127) Seems to not see the issue with telling PR's to go check someone else. (130, 132)
-What appears to be a retaliatory vote towards Pine (135)
-Reasoning provided for vote is wrong (138, 149)
-+To clarify, he says he voting Pine because Pine is against his pro-town logic. This is not what Pine had said, he said that directing actions away is self serving. Hard to tell if this is an intentional misread or not. 171 makes me think like it's not intentional, but it seems hard to misread it that badly.
-Calls FL's dismissal of him 'whining' (334 & 335, in response to Egg and FL's 320 & 331)
-+Less related to Two and more related to Flavor Leaf, but this is the second time he has defended himself in a way that dodges the issue. 69: FlavorLeaf claims that I was calling him scum for not playing what I consider to be the 'Right' way to play Mafia. A blatant lie. 331 is him calling Two annoying and just nodding along with Egg saying that Two is ignoring the thread in favor of saying that he's scum. Both cast shade on the people calling him out.
-Unnecessary support given to Pine for voting Flavor Leaf (424)
-+Seems more encouraging the vote than supporting Pine. Has Townread Inferno and Pine for the Dayvig gambit. (171)
-Was willing to vote NSG if FL lynch wouldn't work out. (427)
-Attempts to use Boon Meta for FL lynch. (453, 463, 470)
-+Unsure on how genuine this is, could be a difference in experience from other players. He could be working off his experience and that's what he experienced, or it might be a case of selective memory.
-+Worth noting is that Two pointed to when Boon had lied in Thread about IRL being in the way when he had said in the scum chat that he was just avoiding activity so he didn't appear scummy. (474) And that Boon has done similar in this same game. (710, 712)
-His Townreads match his previous posts in thought and seem honest rather than showing support. (476)
-His provided reasoning for voting Flavor Leaf becomes more credible later. 478 in particular ties his posts about previous games into his reasoning for voting FL better than he had done before. 487 matches FL's activity in this very thread.
-He lightly comments on Gamma Emeralds strong defense of FL. (498)
-+Warning: Tangent. The play between Gamma Emerald and Two here is interesting. 520 has some strong antagonism from Gamma for what appears to be a misread. 522 has Gamma sticking a bunch of laughter at Two for saying that a 4 Town Neighborhood isn't usually viable. Because the game shares a resemblance to another game which had a 4 Town neighborhood. Seems off to me, makes me wonder what it is that makes Gamma think that this game is like 203? All they should know about the setup is their own role, there being a 4p hood, and the total number of players. There's no other info available for them to assume that it's similar enough to 203 to feel confident to discard the very idea that there might be scum in the hood. Sure, say that it isn't guaranteed to have scum in the hood, but laughing at the idea of there being scum in the hood because of a passing resemblance to another game seems off.
-Backs off of the Flavor Leaf vote because of pressure. Does not retract suspicion at all. (589, 595)
-+Considering how strongly GE pushes against anything pointing at Flavor Leaf, it's understandable that he decided to back off here.

Especially considering that he wasn't receiving any support.

-Votes UCV and profii (660, 687)
-+I can see why the vote on profii would be seen as opportunistic. It feels opportunistic as hell, and his post about "The needs of the many"

really

doesn't help. But his provided reasoning matches up, both of the people who voted profii before him are people he has Townread before. It seems to me like he's just going along with whatever the Town at large wants because he's seen that he can't get results from pushing FL with Egg and Gamma pulling out chainsaws right now.
-Needs of many/Needs of few quote (689, 698)
-+Originally a Star Trek quote apparently, it was used in a moment of self sacrifice to showcase Logic against Humanity. The page that he had pulled from is instead a commentary on the later reversal, by the Ayn Rand method of rationality. The quote works better if you stick to what was provided by Star Trek rather than the commentary he linked.
-Initial suspicion of Inferno being scum (787)
-Vote on Inferno (938)
-+Reason provided is him disagreeing with Inferno's read list. This seems to match his earlier thought process (127, 138, 149) and my own experience with several of the more outspoken followers of Ayn Rand's Rationality.

Backing off of the ISO of TIAM because I need a break. My current read is that he's Town, he is bad at giving good reasons for voting someone, and will believe that his reasons for voting someone are perfect until he is proven wrong. His original reasoning for voting FL seem to be carryovers from previous games, but he's gotten more substantial reasons for it since then. I need to finish the ISO later, but I feel pretty confident in saying that TIAM is Town.

[Nictis]

Haven't caught up yet, and I've got a lot of ISO to do once I do catch up, but how do people feel about GE, Egg, and Beefster? Because thinking on it, all three of them 'defended' Flavor Leaf and I'm getting a little paranoid that they might be defending him to take Towncred if he dies and flips Town, or to have attention on FL if one of them die.

Probably just paranoia, I should catch up first but I'm wondering what people think of these three.

[Nictis]

19] A lynch will automatically occur when a majority (more than 50% of all possible votes) is reached. The number of votes needed to hammer will be included with every vote count.
20] If a majority is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. In the event of a tie,

the player in the tie who first reached the highest number of votes on them will be lynched.

[Nictis]

@Theta Alpine - you’re on a vanity wagon. There is zero chance of Flubber being lynched today. Please join me on Mordi to help stop ObvTown Two from being lynched.

One of the people on the vanity wagons are likely scum, so Nosf, Nictis, and profii need to be remembered.

Everyone knows twoinamillion is town

This isn't some great secret

Fucking hell

If I claim my role will you please for fucks sake lynch Egg

You claiming a role will have no impact on who I choose to vote. Unless if you started giving actual reasons to lynch people since I stopped catching up I see no reason to even take your thoughts into consideration for the vote.

Anyways, about to go back to catching up. On page 49 now.

[Nictis]

VOTE: Mordin Solus

-SNIP-

I don't quite recall that but what were you trying to do then?

I said what his fakeclaim meant, the inconsistencies in it, and voted Flavor Leaf. Here are the posts you would have been looking at. I'm pretty sure anyone can read the bullshit in what he said about my post.

Ascetic Miller. That's... Interesting.

So if I'm reading this right and not mixing up terms, you're claiming to come up guilty to investigations, and that anyone who visits you will be roleblocked (Including investigators)

and

you are sharing a chat with someone.

So... Why shouldn't I think you're mafia here?
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This is projecty and false advertising. I don’t really know what i mean when I say false advertising. But this is it.

VOTE: Nicitis

Basically, they’re saying exactly what is the “right” way of playing, and using it in terms of pushing without taking in facts otherwise.

I’m not strong on this, and I’ll likely change my mind next page, but I want to see where it goes. I need a better sense of who Nic is before I go too hard.

dunno what the point of this was but hey thanks for pointing out that post because I think I have some stuff I wanna say about it.

You stuck this in my quote box and then never actually brought up what you wanted to say. So, what was it that you wanted to say about 957?

I try to push for getting my scumreads lynched, yes. Curious you phrase it that way.

I phrased it the way I did because you attacked anyone who looked at Flavor Leaf. That wasn't you pushing your scumreads, it was just retaliation.

Here are my reads.
Town Reads:
-TwoInAMillion
-Firebringer
Town Leaning:
-Mulch (Heavily Town Leaning)
-Archwing
-Flavor Leaf (69, and 331 make me think scum, almost everything else feels Town)
-Theta Alpine (Might need an update, but they felt pretty Town earlier)
-Pine
Null:
-Inferno (Need to read through their ISO)
-Egg
Scum Leaning:
-Gamma Emerald (Heavily scum leaning)
-Nosferatu (Lightly scum leaning, they're like Firebringer but they don't do anything helpful)
Scum:
-LUV Slot (Currently Mordin Solus)

[Nictis]

1426 is the lie I believe. It's one that I could see people making by accident, but it is a lie that does discredit the wagon against him. On the other hand, I don't see much reason for the wagon on him other than surface level reading of his posts as scum.

The LUV slot seems like a better lynch, with FL being a good followup if it's wrong.

[Nictis]

*shrug*

I am very confident in Two being Town.

[Nictis]

1 to hammer, anything that needs to be said before Mordin goes?

[Nictis]

Texcat/Nictis

I feel like one of them are definitely lock scum.

Any reason you think I might be scum other than me not placing my vote until I was caught up?

[Nictis]

How is "what do you think of these interactions" not on the same level as "I'm thinking of policy lynching Flavor"?

I think pine is scum.
People who disagree r dumb

Process of elimination huh. I was thinking it might have been the way that they perfectly mimicked you for the reasoning on why the LUV slot was scum, even though they don't have access to the hood.

I'm still happy with my LUV/Quick/Mordin vote. I had a gut scum read on LUV. I've played a few times with him recently and something seemed off. And then Quick stepped in and confirmed the scum read. I'm not likely to move from here.

I'm town reading FlavorLeaf and Gamma and Archwing for their votes on the wagon. Although I hated the way Archwing would not commit to a vote earlier. And I'm townreading 2iam, mostly because he seems to be the counter to the scum!LUV/Quick/Mordin wagon.

[Nictis]

Why did it stick those other two quotes in? Disregard those.

[Nictis]

Well, that just about confirms Mulch to be Town, unless he's the SK of the game. Wouldn't expect him to intentionally kill the mafia if that was the case though after one is lynched and so many are still alive.

So, about 95% Town Mulch.

[Nictis]

So, Mulch is just about confirmed, I feel safer hitting outside of the neighborhood to find the next scum (There

might

be two scum in the hood, but I'd give there being just one better odds, even if I still find Gamma's insistence on the game being too much like 203 to be strange) Fire is a definite Townread for me and he's backing up NSG here. I'm Townreading TIAM as well, and Archwing and Pine are both town leaning for me (Need to verify with myself on why Pine is Townleaning)

So that leaves Ausuka, Egg, Theta, texcat, Beef, Myself, and Redflavor for the lynch.

Beef has been called suspicious by others towards the end of the day, Mulch has called Egg scum at multiple points, and texcat I personally am reading as scum leaning for 1390.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing someone on that list, oh well. I'll save my vote for when there's more to look at from texcat, but that's where my suspicion currently lies.

[Nictis]

About to ISO him myself, but anything in particular that stands out to you two?

[Nictis]

Really? I'm not seeing anything SvS there, just him reading everything in almost the complete opposite of how others have read things. Redflavor says he found LUV to be Town, and thought the replacement was reasonable. As Ausuka pointed out, he also seemed to get it flipped on which wagon was opportunistic. I'm not seeing much else to read from him, and aside from his

very

early vote on Nos I can't see anything that I could call SvS.

If anything I'd be accusing him of defending scum, not bussing them.

[Nictis]

SvS means an interaction where both players are scum, not bussing (unless I'm interpreting your post wrong)

Really? That's... an odd way to make an acronym.

In that case, what did you think of the tiny interaction he had with LUV about his vote on Nos? 298 299

PEdit: Annnd mulch just dropped to 80% certainty.

[Nictis]

I only dropped it down to 80% because of his admittance to killing Nos. It's still a lot more likely for him to be Vig that shot his scum read than SK pretending to be Vig shooting his scumread, but the admittance that he did it and there only being two kills means it still needs to be considered.

[Nictis]

Well, I'm down for the Beef lynch.
VOTE: Beefster

[Nictis]

UNVOTE:

Well if we know you'll be able to take care of him, we might as well try to find an alternative. Thoughts on texcat? Not a lot to look at yet, but what do you think?

[Nictis]

-probably town
twoinamillion [neighbor]
pine [2-shot ascetic vig]
mulch
ausuka
gamma emerald [neighbor]

-might be town
inferno390
egg
texcat

TIAM is not a neighbor, those are Gamma Emerald, Inferno, LUV/Quick/Mordin (Scum, deceased), and Flavor Leaf (Town, deceased)

I am curious on your 'might be town' reads. And what it was that made you stick me in 'might be scum'

[Nictis]

Currently doing an ISO of all the people you put in italics Pine, took out this point from my progress because I thought it needed to be shared with you.

1140: This one needs to be read, so grabbing quote.

I think it's more likely he didn't like drawing scum and was looking for an excuse to replace out.

Got my links?

sheeping kmd, the voice of reason.

VOTE: tiam

i'd also be willing to follow mulch onto flubbernugget, although he's still voting nosferatu?

Major red flag thrown here, Nos was their null read and they have NOT commented on them before. Reading this post, I'm definitely voting NSG now.
[/spoiler]
1140 earned a vote. VOTE: NorthSideGal

[Nictis]

If it was anyone else I’d be concerned about this persistent credit grabbing

I'm not credit grabbing. I was unjustifiably attacked. What should I do?

Considering that the entirety of your provided reasoning for thinking Quick was scum was because they decided to replace out, and nobody else agreed with you, I'd say you shouldn't be trying to take credit for getting scum lynched when all you did was barely avoid the noose yourself. Inferno did more than you for that lynch.
And yes, you were credit grabbing.

Just because I don't write 10000 word posts doesn't mean I'm not helpful. I've already lynched one scum so that is a blatant lie.

@Pine got distracted before finishing my ISO list, I'll post what I have so far but unless if Firebringer hardclaims Cop again my vote is sticking with NSG for now. They tried to push the wagon towards people who were explicitly not our confirmed scum twice.

northsidegal
texcat
Egg
Archwing
Nictis
Flubbernugget
Firebringer
RedFlavor

Alright. I'll try to bring up relevant points from each from ISO. I might miss some of the accusations if they don't respond to it though.

NSG

Spoiler:

383: Interesting response to Pine and Fire scumreading her.
390: Early reads list, Nulled both of the known scum (Nos: Thirty posts into ISO at this point, LUV: 23 posts)
405: Explains scumread on Gamma. Considering Gamma's aggressive defense of FL at this time, makes sense to me.
416(Inferno): Have also only been in a newbie with NSG, so I'm mostly assuming it's a change in how they play since then, but I can confirm that she is a lot less inquisitive in this game (And accusatory) than the one I was in. Explained by 394
852: Scumreads Mulch's entrance (Personal thoughts, his entrance

was

bullshit)but claims to be willing to let it slide for their town read.
860: Updated reads list. Of note is Gamma being put to Townread for apparently falling back into their Town meta. Scumleans are Pine, Beef, and Mulch. Known scum have yet to move from Null block.
1140: This one needs to be read, so grabbing quote.

I think it's more likely he didn't like drawing scum and was looking for an excuse to replace out.

Got my links?

sheeping kmd, the voice of reason.

VOTE: tiam

i'd also be willing to follow mulch onto flubbernugget, although he's still voting nosferatu?

Major red flag thrown here, Nos was their null read and they have NOT commented on them before. Reading this post, I'm definitely voting NSG now.
1462: Updated readslist while crossreferencing ongoing wagons.
1463: Doesn't believe TIAM to be scum, prefers TIAM lynch to LUV/Quick/Mordin lynch. Second time NSG tried to push the wagon away from our confirmed scum.

Conclusion: Definite scum from actions, the only thing they have defending them is Firebringer saying they're Town. VOTE: NorthSideGal If NSG flips scum, and the pattern holds, then the other scum is Theta Alpine, or Ausuka.

texcat

Spoiler:

269: Entirely NAI post from their predecessor. Also the only post from their predecessor.
1223: Ties Nos and Firebringer together as scum, says their unvotes seem scummy. Also votes the LUV slot here.
1390: Gives several Town reads related to the wagons and puts their suspicion on the LUV slot in a way that perfectly mirrors Flavor Leaf's reasoning without access to the same information Flavor Leaf has. (Not a neighbor) Those together make me feel like it's an appeal to authority and bussing Quick. Ignoring that however, they raise a really good point about RedFlavor's voting reasoning being off.
1407: Encouraging Theta to put their vote on Mordin instead of on a vanity wagon because of time constraints.

Conclusion: Personal suspicion remains for 1390, but I can see why Theta would have stuck them as Town Leaning now.

Egg (Empty)

Spoiler:

Archwing (Empty)

Spoiler:

Nictis(To avoid bias, will not quote myself here) (Unfinished, was sticking any points where people read me as Town or Scum or show some level of association in.)

Spoiler:

55 (LUV): Very early Townread on me. (Relevant? 80 has LUV defending Nosferatu from Inferno, OTOH 133 has LUV TR Two)
346 (Nosferatu): Nos defends me before getting FL saying he thinks I'm town.
Town reads on me from: LUV (55) NSG (390, lean)

Flubber (Empty)

Spoiler:

Fire (Empty)

Spoiler:

Red (Barely started)

Spoiler:

299(LUV): Sheeps Red on voting Nosferatu. I don't see anything here, others might.

[Nictis]

Mulch if ur confused, I claimed cop with a info on NSG
And nictis is voting my inno.

I'll post what I have so far but

unless if Firebringer hardclaims Cop again

my vote is sticking with NSG for now. They tried to push the wagon towards people who were explicitly not our confirmed scum twice.

Considering the confidence you gave for your own role, and the other fakeclaims to 'Confirm' Townreads, I think I was justified in asking you to confirm this is your claim.

VOTE: texcat

[Nictis]

I don't have access to your logs, but I see NSG defending both of the people we have confirmed to be scum and got to see Mulch claim Mason so people would sheep him more. Just wanted to make sure this wasn't you getting people to look at your scumreads instead.

[Nictis]

Why isn't

uh

north p0osting

Probably because they're v/la?

[Nictis]

I have a profii, nictis, inferno scum team.

meeeeh explain nictis to me cos I recall townreading him

1778 is what's bothering me. There's no rhyme or reason as to who they ISO'd, and the fact that they can make a read on texcat while not being able to say anything on higher impact players like egg just shows an inability to fake transparency to me. I definitely like my other two scum reads more, but I am still not a fan of nictis's play.

I'm not a fan of my post either, I lost interest in it before starting on Egg and didn't feel like changing it to reflect that. I kinda just left it there for me to finish later.

However there are a few things wrong with your statement.

There's no rhyme or reason as to who they ISO'd

I very clearly said that I was doing an ISO on all the people Pine put in italics.

and the fact that they can make a read on texcat while not being able to say anything on higher impact players like egg just shows an inability to fake transparency to me.

I said I got distracted and it was obviously going in order.

but I am still not a fan of nictis's play.

What part of this is a play? I'm honestly unsure on what you could see as a play from a post with framework, notes saying where I didn't do anything, and a basic ISO on two players with relatively small post counts.

This post seems like a reach, I can understand not liking my post since I don't like my post, but reading it as an attempt to fake transparency... I don't see how that post could have been read as anything other than someone walking away from it halfway.

[Nictis]

VOTE: texcat

[Nictis]

Think that's Hammer.

[Nictis]

So out of curiosity, who are you shooting tonight Pine?

[Nictis]

Assuming that Pine is not the SK (Ascetic full Vig is a bit hard to believe, but I believe it) then the next most likely would be Mulch (Remember them taking cred for the vig kill? Possible both targeted Nos and he backed off when Pine stepped up) or Inferno. TIAM we know isn't Mafia, could be SK, but I doubt they'd have tried not killing to lie low. I'd recommend checking Mulch or Inferno (I think Inferno claimed Ascetic early on though)