Micro 794: Miss List II (Game Over)
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PantherPunt Mafia Scum
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Chicka shot Creature on a list of Me / Impl / Creature / BujIn post 400, PantherPunt wrote:Also if nobody explains it, I'll go find it
But
I haven't read all of the thread yet so if one of you could recap why bujb is confirmed scum that'd be nice
She was only supposed to shoot Creature if all four were on the 5 person Miss List. So unless Chicka went rogue (which I have no reason to think she would) at least 3 of the four on the list have to be scum for her to shoot Creature.
Truth be told he's only Conf Scum from my point of view. So you do need to exercise your judgement. But I know for certain he's scum based on the Creature shot and knowing I'm Town so when I get lynched and go to shoot I know he's showing up with two other players on my Miss List."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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I don't want to hurt your ego but it's not because you are SuperTown2018 obv-player. But you are by far the most Town FMPOV given 2 of the three of you / Math / NotMafia have to be Town.In post 399, PantherPunt wrote:Magna, its surprising to me that your read on me is strong enough to bet the game on. Can you tell me what, specifically, got you to me being your most confident town?
Frankly the best post that sold me from your ISO was your question to NotMafia about Derp-clearing because I know from my own experience that scum (especially weaker players) have in the past gone to the "Oh let me post something that shows I don't know the setup so I can't be Scum" well in Open game. I've caught a couple of players in Jungle Republic set-ups over the years trying that tactic. So that it occured to you that his "Oh, didn't know it was 4 scum" could be a play for a derpclear showed a level of questioning I don't expect to come from Scum.
But in comparison to the others? You're the obvious choice. Math has had an agenda to make sure he's the BMOC and in charge the entire game and I certainly would not put it past him to be running a "Attack the most experienced player to keep them off their game" plan from the outset. That coupled with his ease of reading NotMafia as obv-Town (when frankly the only way to read NotMafia is with a bullet or by relation since he's always content lite) have me seriously considering him as the most likely partner to Buj. That and his refusal to look at the plan I want you to look at. Which would be game winning for Town if I'm reading you right as Town."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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Yeah no way we're betting the game on those readsAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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PantherPunt Mafia Scum
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How were those 4 names selected? Who made that plan? And what we she to do if that result wasn't the case?In post 401, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Chicka shot Creature on a list of Me / Impl / Creature / BujIn post 400, PantherPunt wrote:Also if nobody explains it, I'll go find it
But
I haven't read all of the thread yet so if one of you could recap why bujb is confirmed scum that'd be nice
She was only supposed to shoot Creature if all four were on the 5 person Miss List. So unless Chicka went rogue (which I have no reason to think she would) at least 3 of the four on the list have to be scum for her to shoot Creature.
Truth be told he's only Conf Scum from my point of view. So you do need to exercise your judgement. But I know for certain he's scum based on the Creature shot and knowing I'm Town so when I get lynched and go to shoot I know he's showing up with two other players on my Miss List.
I'll definitely read it now but it is helping me read the game to have you talk about it-
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PantherPunt Mafia Scum
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What I need to figure out or have someone offer up
How can scum!magna game or counter his proposed plan of locking the game. You see, he is saying the game is locked if I'm town. I know I'm town but what I'm unsure of is if his plan leads to ambiguous outcomes in the world where he is scum
If there doesn't seem to be a way, cool
If there does, we can talk more
But even in the world where we don't lock, the game will come down to a coinflip that's in towns favor, ya?
Like...getting to f3 there is a 1/3 chance to lynch scum and should that fail there is a 1/2 chance to shoot scum so if I'm not forgetting how that works it's a 2/3 chance we win-
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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The Panther read is incredibly surface level, scum will question "derpclears" all the time, especially if they're from town which your own reads suggests it isIn post 403, Not_Mafia wrote:Yeah no way we're betting the game on those reads
Math always tries to control games. People can read me, you just don't know howAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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In the case that you're town, Magna's plan involves lynching town-Magna and:In post 398, PantherPunt wrote:Mathdino who are you on MU?
Also- did you read magnas plan and can you poke any holes in it in the world where I'm town (As in- don't say "ya..if you're scum, then 'XYZ'. pretend to know I'm town and think/answer)
- If he sees you and one of me/N_M on the Miss List, he shoots not-you
- If he sees me and N_M, he just shoots confscum Bujaber
This is exactly equivalent to just lynching confscum Bujaber and having Magna and whoever we're lynching tomorrow sacrifice.
If you're town, mafia is gonna say "well I'd rather Bujaber get shot" and whichever of me/N_M is scum just puts the other one on the list to force that shot.
Basically, the plan is a case of Fancy Play Syndrome. It adds nothing because scum can just tailor the Miss List to whatever plan we write.
And I just read MU for the articles-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I told Chickadee to call the scumteam, and she called Magna/implo/Creature/Bujaber. That was it, it was just a good read from her.In post 404, PantherPunt wrote:
How were those 4 names selected? Who made that plan? And what we she to do if that result wasn't the case?In post 401, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Chicka shot Creature on a list of Me / Impl / Creature / Buj
She was only supposed to shoot Creature if all four were on the 5 person Miss List. So unless Chicka went rogue (which I have no reason to think she would) at least 3 of the four on the list have to be scum for her to shoot Creature.
Truth be told he's only Conf Scum from my point of view. So you do need to exercise your judgement. But I know for certain he's scum based on the Creature shot and knowing I'm Town so when I get lynched and go to shoot I know he's showing up with two other players on my Miss List.
I'll definitely read it now but it is helping me read the game to have you talk about it
I made the plan.
If she sees all 4 names, she shoots Creature. If she doesn't see all 4 names, she shoots based on her best judgment.-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Read this carefully Panther. Because this is handwaving in an attempt to pretend that the game is in the same state tomorrow when it is not.In post 407, Mathdino wrote:In the case that you're town, Magna's plan involves lynching town-Magna and:
- If he sees you and one of me/N_M on the Miss List, he shoots not-you
- If he sees me and N_M, he just shoots confscum Bujaber
This is exactly equivalent to just lynching confscum Bujaber and having Magna and whoever we're lynching tomorrow sacrifice.
If you're town, mafia is gonna say "well I'd rather Bujaber get shot" and whichever of me/N_M is scum just puts the other one on the list to force that shot.
Basically, the plan is a case of Fancy Play Syndrome. It adds nothing because scum can just tailor the Miss List to whatever plan we write.
Because in his plan I'm still going to be around to be able to be painted as scum. He's already said in his mind scum didn't use their sacrifice block. So I'm not going to be able to sacrifice tonight if so the waters can still be muddied. And notice he's not talking about who he thinks should sacrifice tonight because with his solid Town read on NotMafia that means you.
My lynch means either
A. All four players from Chickadee's list are dead and flipped. You have been absolutely cleared as Town (for not appearing on the Miss List) and thus you will not be lynched tomorrow and either scum is lynched or the Town in NotMafia / Math is lynched and shoots the other for the win.
B. I'm lynched, flip Town and don't see both NotMafia and Math on the Miss List and shoot the one who is. Buj is confirmed scum to everyone mechanically (by my flip and 3 of 4 on Chickadee's list having to be scum) and is lynched for the Town win.
We lynch Buj he flips scum their is no combination of players electing to sacrifice that gives any clarity regardless who dies (it will be you, BTW given that I'm shooting tomorrow most likely and you are my strongest Town read). I can elaborate on scenarios as to why you will get killed based on who is left if you'd like."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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you're obviously neglect the fact that you're for whatever reason willing to bet the entire game on the idea that panther is town
and that scum-panther wouldn't just put me or not_mafia on the miss list in order to get town shot
i'm floored that you somehow think panther is more likely to be town than both me and not_mafia-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Umm ... hypo-Scum Panther would have to put you or NM on the Miss List that's how it works. You act like that is a revelation when it's basic mechanics.In post 410, Mathdino wrote:you're obviously neglect the fact that you're for whatever reason willing to bet the entire game on the idea that panther is town
and that scum-panther wouldn't just put me or not_mafia on the miss list in order to get town shot
i'm floored that you somehow think panther is more likely to be town than both me and not_mafia
I really don't mind if you dislike me putting the game on the line with my read since I'm pretty sure it locks the game. Your personal egotism isn't my concern.
If Panther is scum with Buj as you said you really don't have any say in the matter do you? So doesn't the fact that you are trying your hardest to appeal to Panther that the plan is faulty show that you don't think he's scum? There's a real disconnect there. Not to mention that scum-Panther probably wouldn't go to the trouble of questioning so much of a plan by me that would win him the game."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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if panther is scum with bujaber then you're essentially throwing the game over your own shitty read
we lynch scum, this is fucking simple
scum will only lynch town if they feel like your reads are bad
that's literally the only scenario in which you get enough votes to lynch yourself -- scum thinks "magna's reads are shitty enough that we can lynch him and win the game"-
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PantherPunt Mafia Scum
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Spicy spicy either I'm getting pocketed or magna is stomping mathdino and mathdino logic to contradict magnas point is to argue to magna that I'm scum when it feels like he's also arguing to me that magna is scum
I mean feels like magna is town or is otherwise truly a beast
Math- show me magnas road to victory if he is scum with bujb and suggesting this plan?
Why is it that you're hardclearing notmafia? Maybe I'm wrong but it feels like you're not at all considering bujb+nm
Pedit I'm posting this then reading that-
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PantherPunt Mafia Scum
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Aorn I'm rolling with magna
You can lolme as hard as you'd like if he is mafia, but you've failed to tell me how he wins with this plan if he is mafia (unless bubj is town in which case it seems we can blame someone else)
Mathdino sounds desperate to not go in this direction but the only logic of that is me being scum, which I'm not, so ya-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i mean i'm gonna be honest with you, the primary reason i don't want to do this plan is because if you're scum, this plan literally loses the game FMPOV
he's arguing this whole READ BETWEEN THE LINES, MATHDINO IS MANIPULATING YOU
when like, no fucking shit, i'm doing what wins the game FMPOV
if magna and you are both town, and not_mafia is scum, this plan is exactly identical to "lynch bujaber, have one of magna/N_M/panther sacrifice, lynch N_M in the morning"
at the same time, keep in mind that again, the only way magna has enough votes to get lynched is if scum feel like he's going to shoot wrong
you can vote for magna, and he'll vote himself, but bujaber only votes him if bujaber knows this is a bad plan-
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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At least one of Mathdino and I are town and we're refusing to vote Magna, so at least one scum has to vote Magna for him to be lynched, which they're not going if he's guaranteeing a town winAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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In post 413, PantherPunt wrote:Math- show me magnas road to victory if he is scum with bujb and suggesting this plan?
Why is it that you're hardclearing notmafia? Maybe I'm wrong but it feels like you're not at all considering bujb+nm
Pedit I'm posting this then reading that
- there's no path to victory, we always lynch bujaber and magna in that order today and tomorrow. like, he's asking to be lynched right now.In post 414, PantherPunt wrote:Aorn I'm rolling with magna
You can lolme as hard as you'd like if he is mafia, but you've failed to tell me how he wins with this plan if he is mafia (unless bubj is town in which case it seems we can blame someone else)
Mathdino sounds desperate to not go in this direction but the only logic of that is me being scum, which I'm not, so ya
- i'm hardclearing not_mafia because i've played with him 6 or 7 times now, and while people like magna and me-from-7-games-ago think N_M is unreadable, multiple players are on record for finding him VERY EASILY READABLE, and i've figured out how
i've always had in the back of my mind the idea that N_M's reads are only this good if he's scum
but if that's true, and N_M is deepwolfing by just lynching all the scum in succession
then it literally benefits me to keep N_M around and to not explicitly talk about how i'd be willing to lynch him in lylo
this setup has no nightkill mechanic; in the case of scum-N_M, my plan was to basically hardclear him, let him lynch scum for me since that's pretty clearly the plan, and then reevaluate at the end
but occam's razor says my read is just correct and he's town-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Panther- Notice he avoids following the "No winning path if MoI and Buj" line with the logical conclusion beyond that - there is no reason for that scum-team not have conceded the game already. Thus he's accepting that one of us is Town. And clearly he thinks Buj is the scum between us. That much is clear given he trying to treat me like the Village Idiot of PantsOnHeadington who has terrible play and is a moron. But he said himself if we lynch scum Buj today and I'm alive tomorrow I'm lynched. And hasn't refuted that his quicklynch on Implosion means scum have their sacrifice block likely in hand. So I'm going to live til tomorrow to be lynched and shoot. So why if I'm getting lynched and shooting tomorrow (as he just said) is he worried about me shooting today?
One of NotMafia and Math is scum who doesn't want a lock plan. The other doesn't understand what's going on and just is digging in on the "I'm right MoI is a moron" stance to protect their own ego. I'm leaning Math as the scum of the two."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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Yup me the famous ego, I'm just not willing to bet the game on Panther scum when we can get rid of a confscumAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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i've been treating you like that since literally page 2 of the game
magna all you've done so far is do the whole OH READ BETWEEN MATHDINOS WORDS, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH SCUM-HIM
well no shit, any plan i make involves me not dying
but also consider that scum-me can literally just lynch you and put not_mafia on the miss list to force you to shoot bujaber
why have i not done that yet?
you haven't shown how my play is inconsistent with town-me
in fact you're ignoring that my play is outright inconsistent with scum-me, in that your plan does fuckall if i'm scum, and i can just end the goddamn game already by lynching you
but i'm town, and i'm afraid that panther-scum puts me on the list and has you shoot me
what i'm trying to argue is that your plan isn't even robust enough to get past scum-me, and you're so far up your own ass that you think this is the ultimate solution to scum-mathdino
the solution to scum-mathdino isn't in night actions, it's just by lynching me straight up instead of fucking lynching yourself-
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Mathdino Survivor
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also my whole "you only get lynched if your plan sucks" argument is directed at magna
magna, N_M and i will literally never lynch you
the only possible situation in which you get lynched is if bujaber and panther both pile onto you and you self-vote
which will ONLY happen if bujaber knows your plan is horse-shit
so the question is, would you rather lynch a wagon you KNOW FOR SURE is scum-motivated (yourself)
or just fucking lynch confscum already and get this shit over with-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Because that clears Panther 100% since he isn't on the Miss List and thus dooms you to lose.In post 420, Mathdino wrote:but also consider that scum-me can literally just lynch you and put not_mafia on the miss list to force you to shoot bujaber
why have i not done that yet?
Why do you think somehow this is a damning refutation of the plan when it was already accounted for in the plan?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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SO WHY WOULD BUJABER EVER GIVE YOU YOUR VOTE?In post 422, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Because that clears Panther 100% since he isn't on the Miss List and thus dooms you to lose.In post 420, Mathdino wrote:but also consider that scum-me can literally just lynch you and put not_mafia on the miss list to force you to shoot bujaber
why have i not done that yet?
Why do you think somehow this is a damning refutation of the plan when it was already accounted for in the plan?-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Panther- The one element Math has correct is that if my read on you as Town is correct Buj isn't going to vote me. So I'd like your thoughts on whether you think NotMafia or Math is the second scum. Because I'd like the two of us to take a crack at getting the last Town on board."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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