Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[profii]

I figured and responding for the same reasons

[havingfitz]

First check-in since last week (weekend + Easter).

I'm confined to phone use for the immediate future so comments will be short/limited.

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

Why? Low activity + v/la's?

I'll try to get read up today and post asap.

[Almost50]

Not following this and I don’t understand why your latest posts seem really lazy. tex was just saying the obvious. There’s only one doc left and someone could counterclaim.

Can you start actually engaging with the game and not just mindlessly tunneling?

With all due respect, if you're "not following" and "don't understand" then you have problems with comprehension, and thus have no right to tell me what to do and what not to.

Thank you.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

What do you think of kopherald?

Didn’t like their justification for voting TGP or Jimmy.

I could vote there as well.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not following this and I don’t understand why your latest posts seem really lazy. tex was just saying the obvious. There’s only one doc left and someone could counterclaim.

Can you start actually engaging with the game and not just mindlessly tunneling?

With all due respect, if you're "not following" and "don't understand" then you have problems with comprehension, and thus have no right to tell me what to do and what not to.

Thank you.

Maybe you have trouble communicating? Two-way street my friend.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Give me something Fitz.

[Almost50]

@LUV: I don't have trouble communicating. You're the one who has trouble comprehending.

Confirming me as Doctor gets me killed.
Confirming me as VT would have to come through a CC so it gets the real Doctor killed.

The only good reason to call for a CC now is if my ALIGNMENT was still questionable, which is not the case. Hence, calling out for a CC only serves SCUM identify the last Doctor for sure to kill them tonight.

Your problem is that you're bad at scum, so you can't even put yourself in a "scum mindset" to figure the motive behind what texcat has called for.

Again; no good Town motive, but a very good scum motive.

[Sando]

The only good reason to call for a CC now is if my ALIGNMENT was still questionable, which is not the case. Hence, calling out for a CC only serves SCUM identify the last Doctor for sure to kill them tonight.

For someone who wants to be snarky about comprehension...maybe you should brush up:

Could: used to indicate possibility
Should: used to indicate obligation

Only one doc left. So we

could

have a counterclaim now.

[Creature]

Aren't we doing so bad?

[Creature]

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

You go into a long V/LA without being prodded at all, gets away two days and now acts surprised you're being wagoned?

[Kopherald]

First check-in since last week (weekend + Easter).

I'm confined to phone use for the immediate future so comments will be short/limited.

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

Why? Low activity + v/la's?

I'll try to get read up today and post asap.

It's not just low activity or V/LA constantly, your posts when you are here, haven't exactly helped your case.

- Kop

[Ausuka]

I mean havingfitz has lurked and that's pretty bad but then again scum likely wagoned Paradox and Jimmy for the same reasons and the last thing I want is for this game to stay the same.
I think kopherald slot is being actively opportunistic here lately and I also think anyone who sees their ISO should see what I mean by this as well.

[Kopherald]

So, again another push of us from Ausuka without an actual case.

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

And by the way, if trying to work with the rest of the town to look for lynches is "actively opportunistic" then I'm always fucking "actively opportunistic". That's how you fucking play mafia, you try to develop reads and lynch them, sometimes you're wrong, and that's okay. But, at least we're trying and not just saying that it's a "gut read" and "anyone can see it if they look at the stuff I saw" even though you don't bother actually building a case. That's why I said yesterday that Ausuka was scum, and that's why I still believe it, but we have a case for fitz up and out in the open, so we are pursuing that and that alone today. But, you all follow the one who hasn't actually posted any analysis the whole game.

-Brass (probably for the last time)

[Ausuka]

This is literally the first time I've voted a gutread the whole game

What are you on about

[Ausuka]

Not to mention, I'm the only one even voting you.
I have no idea how a player who is actually reading the thread posts 1087.

[Kopherald]

Not to mention, I'm the only one even voting you.
I have no idea how a player who is actually reading the thread posts 1087.

And the rest of the game, you have been voting with zero analysis. Just making your read lists and voting.

I am saying today it's a gut read, but I have seen nothing in terms of actual thoughts coming from your slot. I don't care if today the flavor is gut reading or not, but you have shown no analysis.

If I'm still being unclear, the point is that you have not posted a thought process at any point in the game from what I can tell. I'm not saying you have only been voting your gut reads this whole game, but this is the first time I have seen any reasoning at all for your votes, and it's "gut says so"

-Brass

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: Posts that have analysis and are definitely nowhere near what Kopherald is saying

Good feelings about doomfeathers; it seems like he is being proactive town by getting things going, asking probing questions and trying to get us out of RVS as quickly as possible.

Yeah I definitely have to disagree with that. What he's done so far seems like he's trying way too hard to look like town, especially this;

Wot, no votes? We've got to start some dialogue so we can find scum. Votes start wagons, wagons start discussions, and discussions breed reactions. That's just how things work.

I'm not sure why town!doomfeathers thinks he has to introduce the concept of RVS to everyone on post 6.

VOTE: Unvote: Creature
Vote: Almost50

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

I agree with this logic -and I'm willing to put Almost50 on the chopping block to try it.

Alright so I want to point out in more depth why this post is really, really bad.
I mean, 139 is bad enough on its own. He just lists three pretty widely scumread players and says "one of these are scum." There's nothing that would indicate this is true. Obviously it has to do with A50 scumreading Creature and doom, but like there's no reason that can't be TvT. It feels like lining up lynches on the arguing townies while sitting back and laughing.

And then you have 142, which

agrees

with this "logic" (there is no logic in 139, btw) and then says he is willing to ACTUALLY LYNCH A50 on the premise that if he is town then he attacked scum.

Shadpearl's comment on A50 being scum because he is pushing aggressively also makes pretty much 0 sense to me.

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Scum wanting to watch A50 or someone get lynched and lurk by it.
Like, I know lurking isn't seen as a scumtell on this site really. But in my experience there are almost ALWAYS scum in the lurkers, multiple. And then people refuse to lynch them because "it won't give enough information" or "we don't have enough evidence."
And it's not like it's impossible to distinguish between lurkers, either. blockcandy didn't post/JUMS recently came in. But at least he's trying. Havingfitz is at least trying to take stances, and he's V/LA over weekends which explains his absence. Paradox just isn't even TRYING at this point. And if he's sick of mafia and has no motivation, why does he sign up for more and more games? He's just scum. If town was unmotivated, they would make an attempt to post some content (such as explaining 139), or they would replace out. These are the only things that make sense to do. Paradox does neither of these things. He continues to refuse to post ANYTHING while STILL signing himself up for more and more games for him to post in.

Paradox is scum this game, period.

There is a very obvious difference between the content you have produced compared to JDK.

How can you define the difference? I'm curious.

You definitely tried to give content (and have, although that's pretty irrelevant when it comes to alignment, because giving content is obviously something either alignment will usually do.) JDK gave like 1 post 152 with strong content for most of the day.

Although JDK has been doing a lot more recently so this probably doesn't reply anymore.

If there are no replacements willing to come in for Paradox, I'm okay with just lynching that slot.

Nope.

Nope, I'm sorry. I was right and nothing will ruin that for me, lmao. Check back when I'm wrong later in the game.

This is bad too. He seems to be trying to get towncred for not voting FL which is Especially since he never really opposed the TGP wagon.

I mean, like, profii has been totally off the entire game tonally. Looking back 48 is very LAMIST and a lot of his ISO feels that way- fencesitty but a bit LAMIST at the same time. Especially the part where he votes FL "for pressure" and then unvotes to "be a team player" which is
But I think the main solid thing about him is his 791 where he sets up a vote for Taly because Taly changed his scumreads. Like no matter how you try and spin it, that's exactly what he's doing and I think it's really scummy.
I mean, look at this;

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

He's scumreading Taly because Taly is no longer pushing on doom/A50 slots after he pushed them on d1. Like let's be real here- is that more likely to be a real thought coming from a townie, or is it more likely to be a scum fabrication of scumhunting?

Also I haven't done this yet, so;
VOTE: profii

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

Creature has more posts than anyone else this game. He's been less active recently but meh. His posts might not have a lot of content individually but they do have a lot when you put them all together considering how often he can post.

I feel like there's a definite distinction between fitz's play and Jimmy's play. Fitz hasn't been here and he's been on VLA a lot iirc. Jimmy's been here but his posts are pretty empty and useless.

Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

LOL. You must not have played with Creature then.

VOTE: Aneninen who had me fooled last game

She may be cute, but I don't think that's a very good reason to follow her.

VOTE: Jaydragon

Texcat's first 2 votes. Possible scum team?

I'm after half of the playerlist. Or more. Why is everyone so interested in my Texcat-read?

Why shouldn't we be interested in a read you claim to have?

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

But you do have a point seeing as texcat wasn't the only player you'd scumread.

Like these posts are the epitome of useless and hedgy. What do they bring to the table? Nothing.

I'm tired right now so I'll respond to the rest tomorrow morning.

Sorry, I missed this originally.

Meh. I'll vote profii if it comes to it but I feel like Jimmy is intentionally trying to be useless here. Profii could be town with a playstyle that's hard to understand, but I see jimmy as a lot less likely to be that way.

Can you elaborate on what makes you view

profii

to be that way?

profii scumread you because he found your read change on a50/doom scummy. I didn't understand it at the time and tbh I still find it hard to understand now but I think I do distinctly remember playing games in 2016 when players called out 180s as scummy. I still think they're really not but I do feel like profii being town is pretty viable. Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

There are probably more I could include but meh.

[Ausuka]

but this is the first time I have seen any reasoning at all for your votes

No.

This is scum.

[Kopherald]

Who blocks candy? Seriously.

VOTE: blockcandy

RVS post.

btw

mod...I'm v/LA now until Mar 13th.

I'll be able to keep up via phone, and post somewhat...but will definitely be less active.

First V/LA.

The guy just hates to play Scum and he either lurks it out until lynched/replaced or posts nonsense on intervals and still gets lynched

He's logged onsite since this game has begun

This tells me he is agreeing with Almost, but why not vote?

However, Shad has pinged my radar,

His lone post pings me as well. If doomfeather seems town to him why would he suggest saving doom to vote for later?

VOTE: Shadpearl

Sheep vote.

if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates, one mafia, and one SK?

Why would mafia and sk be team mates?

Trying to look busy picking up on a misworded post from myself.

He's dodging attention.

How am I dodging attention? I'm taking stances and making observations.

If I wanted to dodge attention my v/la (which is legit) would be more stringent with no, or much less, posting.

@Everyone, look at the quotes above this one, or even go to his ISO, and please tell me where Fitz is taking these stances and observations he's making out he's doing.

I see nothing.

Mod... what's up with blockcandy.

Nothing but a filler post.

Mod... what's up with blockcandy.

Lol...sorry mod....missed the prod.

Again.

Furthermore, why has the mod not prodded fitz, despite his VLA status? Whether he is scum or town, it is bad for the game if he's going to join and not be able to post at all for 2 weeks.

@Mod looking forward to your response

-Brass

Where are you getting two weeks from?

I'm still v/la...the snowstorm in NE is delaying my return till Thursday morning.

I'll try to catch up on my reading asap.
Till then....
UNVOTE:

Unvotes Shad, why?

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

Over reaction to my question towards Creature. Why would Fitz get his back up to a question that is a viable one?

V/la over. Catching up with my ongoing games today.

Now he's back.

(This is what you get for playing @ MU)

?

Posts a question mark, nothing more until post #775. I mean seriously, how can you simply come back from V/LA claim your catching up, and provide nothing until 186 posts later?

VOTE: Jimmy for that hammer.

Lean town on Shad.

I need to reread game from beginning. Too much time away from this game.

Lamist vote on Jimmy for that hammer, that's his only reason for that vote. Fitz voted for Jimmy and never followed up anything towards Jimmy, no case, no more interactions and now that slot has flipped one of the doctors.

busy IRL

^

If Fitz flips scum, I would be inclined to claim that Asuka is his partner. She's simply trying her damndest to get the wagon of Fitz for a shoddy reason.

I'm still happy with my vote on Fitz.

Because I'm not playing like I did in a game where I was an sk?

If you're going to rely on meta for your gut reads on me you could at least look at gsmes we've played where I was scum (Open 674 & mini 1653). I don't think those games will apply to this one but they'd probably be better than an sk game. You could also peruse the several town games we've been in.

It's not just down to Meta.

The game has come to a stagnation.. again

Qft.

I haven't got a lot of room to talk but things have ground to a halt it seems.

6 days is still time to lynch elsewhere if a promising wagon develops but that would involve people participating.

I'll try to get refreshed on the game over the next few days and do a few isos...give expanded reads. Etc etc.

Yet another promise for a catch up, I'm still bloody waiting for the first one.

HavingFitz, may be scum.

But he isn't.

Why would you think so?

I think it's the lack of posting? Or maybe the lack of reads, just judging by what people have been saying.


No one has any commentary on Creature possibly being the SK? x) I thought that was such a great theory, lol.

Hi Shad. Good to see you posting.

The question was for Aneninen...not for you.

Despite being v/LA a good portion of this game I have posted more than a few players...yourself included. texcat. Jimmy. And I've given a few reads out. I've stated at least one town read and indicated a least two players I suspect. So I've given reads on a quarter of the remaining players without really even trying.

A few bonus reads for you...pre-refresh + ISOs....I lean not mafia on Luv and A50. And Creature. As for Creature being an SK....I do not SK hunt until I have to.

I only seen one town lean given out, which I think you retracted.

As for the 2 players you suspect, they mean absolutely nothing, nothing if you aren't chasing them, voting them, or building a case on them. They are words, but no action. I can throw a few words out and just leave it at that, anything just to look busy.

Fitz, you don’t seem to be pushing anything.

1) The amount I push is proportional to confidence, availability and interest. All of which are low atm.
2) A vote isn't a push?

Like I said, if confidence is low, why aren't you getting involved more and actually fullfilling these catch ups, asking questions, talking to people and your confidence may grow?

Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

Why is Jimmy scummier than profii?
Have you ever seen a game where counterwagons were both on scum?

This is just a empty question that you aren't going to take any further.

I mean I only want to lynch this slot because it's lurking.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

So you voted for Jimmy for hardlies bringing any content to the table, but Fitz is almost comparable and your defending that slot. What made the Jimmy (doctor) wagon a good wagon, but not the Fitz one?

- Kop

[Sando]

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

Ok hold up. In your (hydras) own words, the case on Fitz is comparable to the Jimmy slot, which flipped doc. Yet Ausuka is the stupid one for not continuing the same read that flipped town onto another person? Re-evaluating your reads is surely a part of this game? And if you want to lynch someone comparable to the Jimmy slot go ISO Creature D2, pay attention to timestamps. I pointed out numerous times that both him and Jimmy had been away for an inordinate amount of time, yet you've ignored him today despite it being fairly comparable (I even compared it for you).

1) Why did you put someone who hadn't posted in ~5 days to L-1? Was it to pressure an absent player? Pressure the mod?
2) Why was Jimmy a viable lurker-lynch yesterday but Creature who failed to post for basically the same period not?

[davesaz]

Official Vote Count 3.2

havingfitz (3) - Creature, Kopherald, profii
profii (3) - Sando, Taly, Lil Uzi Vert
Kopherald (1) - Ausuka
texcat (1) - Almost50

Not Voting (3) - Shadpearl, havingfitz, texcat
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

(expired on 2018-04-14 17:00:00)

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Profii

[Almost50]

No way we win this game with so much lurking going on.

I just hope to God I'm not a fool.

VOTE: profii <<<<<<<<< L-1

It's fitz/profii/texcat (and I don't even know which of profii/fitz is the SK)

[havingfitz]

Give me something Fitz.

I'm feeling perpetually behind on ms.net atm. I can probably spend some catch up time in the next 2 days. But not today. If you have something I can answer quickly ask away. Anything requiring more involved reading is a no go today at least.