Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[StefanB]

I meaned that you seem to have the ability to look town, when you are scum.
That makes someone a strong scumplayer imho.

[Gamma Emerald]

eeeeeeeeh ya know what fuck it I'm just going to heavily adovcate for lynching MoI if he is still alive the day before LyLo and ignore the slot till I can actually get in a headspace to gamesolve.
{Gamma, Saudade, Implosion, Cheetory, CoA}
{Stefan, GreyICE, Flavor Leaf} - with the caveot that I am literally 100% ok with Flavor Leaf dieing because Boon, Gamma, and Saudade literally make me want to replace out and Boon's playstyle is like, always terrible}
{Hiraki}
{Hoopla, Prism, MoI}

Actually
now that I think about it.
I like this
VOTE: Prism
idunno I think they would have more stances then Gamma is town and I feel like this could easily be the coasting lurking deepwolf here.

idunno I've played with Prism!scum three times total and like I think that kinda resembles what I've seen of his scumplay

[Gamma Emerald]

since when am I a strong scumplayer

since you won your first scumgame? idgi how you don't see the connection

[Saudade]

it was a newbie game........

[Saudade]

Could it be that you're all afraid of my scumgame right now?
trembling in fear at night that I might be pulling the strings and outplaying you all?

[Saudade]

Just because I won one game

[Gamma Emerald]

I man people had the same reaction to Mulch so it's not surprising

[StefanB]

I would call it afraid, I would say players have respect and giving you a closer look.
The same if you have a reputition of beeing a very good townplayer, people will be suspicious of you if you have an off-game.

Since he was mentioned, please don't let Mulch replace in next...

[MagnaofIllusion]

As an example of Implosion bending over backwards to clear Saud btw I give you this –

WRT his wagon it's sort of the same thing, he's being kind of unnecessarily antagonistic. It's more direct than I'd expect scum to take as a tact here. Idk. It just doesn't feel right as the scum angle. I'd expect him as scum to be a bit more wishy-washy about the people on his wagon, or I'd expect him to be happy to join the MoI wagon. The way he's reacting to the wagon as a whole feels genuine. There are just a lot of little things that I don't think are what he'd do as scum.

Let’s look at the elements that he is using to credit Saud as Town.

1. He’s more antagonistic against those voting him than scum should be? Um, no that purely a function of personality than alignment – some people are always going to be more aggressive against attackers while some are going to be downright passive.

2. He’d expect scum Saud to be more wishy-washy about the people on his wagon. I’d argue that is exactly what his is doing. For reference Saud posted this –

MagnaOfIllusion(11), Gamma Emerald(41), Hoopla(15)
post which line made you think that im mafia with a decent enough thought process or get spanked tbh

Of the three of us only one (Gamma) bothered to even respond. This led to Gamma and Saud’s lovely back and forth starting at 296. Hoopla and I didn’t bother and Saud never said two peeps about it despite the fact that he’s made it clear more than once he thinks scum jumped on him. And he never voted either any of the three of us after this - just basically vote parks Flavor. My takeaway is that he’s being very wishy-washy against those on his wagon … blowing a bunch of hot air with no followup beyond a name-calling session with Gamma.

3. Implosion would expect him to be happy to join the MoI wagon as scum.

Um …what? Let’s parse this because it makes zero sense from the perspective Implosion is trying to present. Look at the situation.

Implosion is implicitly saying he’s Town in his posts. Next he’s voting me at this stage so he is presenting that he thinks I am scum. Yet he’s giving Saud Town points for being hesitant to vote me. Why in god’s green earth would Saud get Town points for being hesitant to vote a person he thinks is quite possibly scum who jumped on his wagon? Does that make sense? If anything I’d expect Town Implosion who thinks I am scum to wonder why Saud didn’t jump on the wagon not give him Town points.

Now on the flip-side – I can certainly see Scum Implosion who knows myself and Saud are both Town to make the mistake of trying to giving Saud Town credit for not jumping on a growing MoI Town wagon despite me being under fire. That absolutely makes sense.

In fact at this stage since Grey hasn’t chimed in I’m moving my vote because it seems pretty clear to me as I typed this that Implosion is quite possibly scum trying to pocket Town Saud.

VOTE: Implosion

[MagnaofIllusion]

eeeeeeeeh ya know what fuck it I'm just going to heavily adovcate for lynching MoI if he is still alive the day before LyLo and ignore the slot till I can actually get in a headspace to gamesolve.
{Gamma, Saudade, Implosion, Cheetory, CoA}
{Stefan, GreyICE, Flavor Leaf} - with the caveot that I am literally 100% ok with Flavor Leaf dieing because Boon, Gamma, and Saudade literally make me want to replace out and Boon's playstyle is like, always terrible}
{Hiraki}
{Hoopla, Prism, MoI}

Actually
now that I think about it.
I like this
VOTE: Prism
idunno I think they would have more stances then Gamma is town and I feel like this could easily be the coasting lurking deepwolf here.

And how and the hell has this not drawn more questions than the softball Stephan threw his way earlier? Let's look at what Erika is doing here -

1. Abdicating the ability to read me or interact with me until right before LYLO.
2. Voting Prism who literally has a single post over Hoopla who Erika made an early "Case" against as scum. I challenge anyone with a straight fact to say that Prism is a more reasonable vote from Erika than Hoopla (or myself, but more on that in a bit).
3. Berating the ability of Boon / Gamma / Saud while simultaneously having 2 of those three in her Top Town tier and one in a tier that is at worst Null-Town. That smells like setting the stage to later vote them under the guise of a change in read / policy when the chance arises.

Frankly the whole 4 post sequence where Erika has backpedalled on me (oh, I'm terrible at this game I guess but MoI is soooo scummy, I'll just ignore him til near LYLO) stinks of scum who thought they had a nice ego inflating sure thing mislynch-wagon on me and saw the change in the wind and thought "Oh shit ... need to abort this ASAP".

If I didn't have a strong reason to vote Implosion you know sure as hell my vote would be here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So perhabs my question should be: Why is Flavor playing like he does? If someone has a scum-motivation good.

I wish I could answer this ... frankly that sorta loosey goosey more interest in having fun than playing the game style is not something I can connect with at all. Part of why I'm limiting my games to mostly Geriatric games is the fact that many players like this are part of the site norm now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
this should be our lynch for the day to be honest

I unvoted Flavor to see where things would lead.
this lead to Flavor unvoting me and voting someone else which begs the quesiton of why did he vote me in the first place only to claim I am his strongest townread later on
I just see his play filled with inconsistancy and that's about it.

and I dont recall wanting to read into implosion pretty sure I townread him because I could relate to his reads

Unvote

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

????
explain

So let me get this straight. You vote Flavor. You say "Implosion has reads you can relate to". Implosion votes the player you are and your reaction is "?????, explain". All in the span of 9 posts.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Grey I really need to you get in here and give me some insight because I am going nuts watching this. I don't think Saud and Implosion / Erika are all partners. But I am having a hard as hell time deciding which side is more scummy.

HALP!!!!!

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

????
explain

thought i answered this yesterday for some reason.

I'm bored with the day and still think he's scum and never really had the best reasons for unvoting him.

1. He’s more antagonistic against those voting him than scum should be? Um, no that purely a function of personality than alignment – some people are always going to be more aggressive against attackers while some are going to be downright passive.

Disagree. I use the word antagonistic specifically; the way he's doing it makes me think he doesn't really care what they think of him. This isn't a personality tell, some players tend to be more aggressive in general yes but it's rare for scum to go out of their way to alienate half of the player list.

2. He’d expect scum Saud to be more wishy-washy about the people on his wagon. I’d argue that is exactly what his is doing. For reference Saud posted this –

Yeah I didn't explain this piece well.

Implosion is implicitly saying he’s Town in his posts. Next he’s voting me at this stage so he is presenting that he thinks I am scum.

False. My vote on you was mostly a placeholder/blindly wagoning. I don't have a good read on you yet. I was vaguely hoping to see how you'd react directly to my vote on you, but then you disappeared for that day and I got tired of waiting. And now you're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about my vote; you're assuming that it was because of an explicit scumread on you, you're assuming that I wanted the wagon to keep growing, and you're assuming that I should be exonerating every vote on the wagon just because I was on it? That is such an un-nuanced way of looking at things. Like, this line:

Why in god’s green earth would Saud get Town points for being hesitant to vote a person he thinks is quite possibly scum who jumped on his wagon? Does that make sense? If anything I’d expect Town Implosion who thinks I am scum to wonder why Saud didn’t jump on the wagon not give him Town points.

is really one-dimensional. Sure, I might not give saud-scum townpoints for avoiding jumping on a wagon on you if I'm completely sold that you're scum... but even if I have a scumread on you, I'm not going to assume that you're scum when I evaluate Saudade's actions. my day one reads are crap like half the time. I don't see why you think I should be looking at Saudade's actions through the lens of my read on you. It could function as evidence that you're scum

together

but d1 associatives are crap.

If Saudade is scum, then unless you're also scum, the wagon on you would be an incredibly easy vote for him to make. He could justify it super easily, he was already throwing some vague shade in your direction, the wagon was growing, etc. You're ignoring my argument to instead talk about pretend reasoning for my vote that I never presented.

[implosion]

I'd expect him as scum to be a bit more wishy-washy about the people on his wagon, or I'd expect him to be happy to join the MoI wagon. The way he's reacting to the wagon as a whole feels genuine.

To try to explain that piece better, yeah you're basically taking a single piece of my argument out of context of the rest of it. Basically I just don't think this is the prudent way to react to the pressure on him if he's scum and I don't think it looks like it's faked.

There's a class of tells that I've had in the back of my mind for a bit that are things that scum is somewhat less likely to do because those things are going to draw more negative attention than positive. And I think those tells have a good chance of being some of the most accurate, because even if they're publicly known, scum will still avoid doing them because there's still a large portion of the population who thinks that they're scummy. And it's not too scummy to be scum, per se, it's just doing things that don't really have the clearest motivation if he's scum.

I don't see saudade's motivation for reacting the way he has, as a whole, if he's scum.

[implosion]

So perhabs my question should be: Why is Flavor playing like he does? If someone has a scum-motivation good.

It's impossible to understand flavor's play without some knowledge of his meta. He does things in a very intentionally arbitrary way and makes a point to be inconsistent in certain regards.

His scum motivation here, if he's scum, is simply to try to emulate his meta. He's screwing around with the claim-backtrack-differentclaim shenanigans to try to get people to think in the back of their heads that this isn't something he'd do as scum, even though his sig is very explicit that he'll do pretty much anything as scum.

In a sense, his existence in a game is -EV for town in the same way that creature's is +EV for town.

[implosion]

MoI is very consistent in his style of logic and argumentation. He's actually doing a very similar sort of set of assumptions toward Erika and Saudade as he does toward me. He criticizing erika's prism vote on the grounds that based on what erika has said, she should be voting elsewhere. He criticizes Saudade for being skeptical of my vote despite voting in the same direction. It's almost like MoI is assuming that everyone else in the game if they are town is communicating the exact state of their thought process in this game perfectly. And that's just not true of town in general. The problem is that I'm pretty sure this isn't a tell for MoI and I have no idea how to actually read him, and the push even feels vaguely reminiscent of the last game I played with MoI where we were both town and suspected each other. Which is why I can understand why erika wants to just lynch him the day before lylo if he's still alive. And why I don't really understand why he's critical of erika for claiming inability to read him. I just don't know how to interpret any of this with regards to his alignment.

[implosion]

was hopfully a joke or he wins the are you reading the posts or just skimming them, award.

also yes this post was a joke if that wasn't clear.

Stefan is also probably town. Which nominally leaves hoopla/moi/hiraki/prism to sort. Two people who haven't posted substantially and two people who I have no clue how to read. Although I can see hoopla as scum here maybe.

[UC Voyager]

Spoiler: VoteCount Settings

priorVCNumber=3
url=viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75603
playerList=Flavor Leaf{FL+Flavor},Saudade,WhyMafia,Floosh,GreyIce{Grey},MagnaOfIllusion{MoI},Gamma Emerald{Gamma+GE},implosion,Hoopla,Cheetory6,StefanB,Erika Furudo{Erika},CultOfAthena{CoA+Cult+Athena}
replacementList=WhyMafia:Prism, Floosh:Hiraki
moderatorNames=UC Voyager
dayStartNumbers=0
cleanDay=true
deadline=2018-04-18 00:26:59 -8.00
deadList=
voteOverrides=

[UC Voyager]

Votecount 1.4

Flavor Leaf(5)

~ GreyIce(34), Hoopla(18), Saudade(70), Gamma Emerald(66), implosion(36)

Hoopla(3)

~ StefanB(14), Flavor Leaf(47), Hiraki(2)

MagnaOfIllusion(2)

~ CultOfAthena(18), Cheetory6(31)

Prism(1)

~ Erika Furudo(49)

implosion(1)

~ MagnaOfIllusion(20)


Not Voting (1): Prism(1)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-04-18 00:26:59)

MOD REMINDERS

NONE

[implosion]

MoI is not scum atm.

I would just love if you could justify this one.

[Hiraki]

Grey I really need to you get in here and give me some insight because I am going nuts watching this. I don't think Saud and Implosion / Erika are all partners. But I am having a hard as hell time deciding which side is more scummy.

HALP!!!!!

Grey will say that Saud is worse but he is wrong here.

MoI is not scum atm.

I would just love if you could justify this one.

The best I can do to dampen your worries is that 416 is borderline conspiracy theory writing. Then again, that just makes more sense!

[Hiraki]

I actually think 413 onward is the best reason for an implosion wagon. None of that sounds like he thinks MoI is scum but is sideline pushing him super hard. I also hated the current wagons but didn't have enough juice to make a splash for a new one that people would actually get on. I can do more to convince people of Implosion scum here, if needed.

Unvote, Vote: Implosion

[Hiraki]

In fact, in my editing, I do a terrible job on going on my grievances against Implosion and that's a bad thing for me. I will discuss him later today or tomorrow morning. Just need time.

[Hiraki]

*did

See?? My editing rn is subpar