Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[Saudade]

am I the only one that wants to punch a puppy every time moi posts

[Saudade]

just lynch the leaf what could possibly go wrong

[implosion]

but is sideline pushing him super hard

what

[implosion]

what precisely is sideline pushing and how does one do it super hard

[Hiraki]

Meaning that you go "oh my bad, you're right - but you're still scum"

[implosion]

because i am calling magna scum???

[implosion]

please read 416 again

[Prism]

I was wrong gamma is town
):

This is a weird progression to me. It looks like it's spurred by Gamma's #215 and #218, which I didn't really feel were of note. Can you walk through this more?

It's impossible to understand flavor's play without some knowledge of his meta. He does things in a very intentionally arbitrary way and makes a point to be inconsistent in certain regards.

His scum motivation here, if he's scum, is simply to try to emulate his meta. He's screwing around with the claim-backtrack-differentclaim shenanigans to try to get people to think in the back of their heads that this isn't something he'd do as scum, even though his sig is very explicit that he'll do pretty much anything as scum.

In a sense, his existence in a game is -EV for town in the same way that creature's is +EV for town.

This seems off to me. You're thinking of this in terms of expected outcomes/values already. Do you feel as though the backtrack on the claim is more likely as scum?

Right now this post is more suggesting to me that he'd stop at the claim level; fakeclaiming an investigative Day 1 is already a very risky move that sets the pace for the rest of the game. If he's trying to be bold and be a thrillseeker as scum, he'd already found it in the claim. His posting very much reads impulsive and egostroking rather than calculating EVs. I'm not really comfortable calling him scum for it, as difficult to work with as it is. From your perspective though, I feel like this is a statement on possible motivation with little focus on the likelihood of each, and I don't like it.

I'm also not really a big fan of your CoA read-they've asked questions and given passable reads, but from what I see they haven't followed up on the questions and engaged with them further. This is the definition of surface-level activity for me; there's no clear cognition going on afterwards.

VOTE: Cult

I feel like this game reminds me a lot of GreyICE's play in Miss List; there's a lesser focus on townreads and more just burning the scum as he thinks he's found them. I'm not familiar with his scum MO so feel free to slap me.

Actually
now that I think about it.
I like this
VOTE: Prism
idunno I think they would have more stances then Gamma is town and I feel like this could easily be the coasting lurking deepwolf here.

This implies a familiarity with my play-I have two questions about this. 1) Why would you expect more stances than Gamma town, given what you have seen of me? 2) Does the feeling about my being a lurking scum also come from meta, or is it a broader statement of "someone is, I guess it's them"?

For the record, at the time I made that post, I had briefly skimmed the first 4 pages of the game more than 24 hours prior, before I even replaced in and got my role PM. I was hoping to tackle the game the next day but if your definition of "coasting" is "replaced in and then didn't catch up in a day" I'm also curious as to why.

idunno I've played with Prism!scum three times total and like I think that kinda resembles what I've seen of his scumplay

Will revisit at a later date; not really as concerned about this one right now.

[StefanB]

MoI is very consistent in his style of logic and argumentation. He's actually doing a very similar sort of set of assumptions toward Erika and Saudade as he does toward me. He criticizing erika's prism vote on the grounds that based on what erika has said, she should be voting elsewhere. He criticizes Saudade for being skeptical of my vote despite voting in the same direction. It's almost like MoI is assuming that everyone else in the game if they are town is communicating the exact state of their thought process in this game perfectly. And that's just not true of town in general. The problem is that I'm pretty sure this isn't a tell for MoI and I have no idea how to actually read him, and the push even feels vaguely reminiscent of the last game I played with MoI where we were both town and suspected each other. Which is why I can understand why erika wants to just lynch him the day before lylo if he's still alive. And why I don't really understand why he's critical of erika for claiming inability to read him. I just don't know how to interpret any of this with regards to his alignment.

I quote this one in all his beauty. His MoIstance in it is strange to say the last? I think beeing clear and logical are not exactly antitown.
So a player who looks protown is the same as someone who allways looks scummy?

And that interpretation of the case of Erica is interesting to say the last. I would call it misinterpratation.

No to MoIs case on Erica, I found it more compeling than his case on Implosion, but there is that post above.

VOTE: Implosion

[Hiraki]

MoI is not scum atm.

I would just love if you could justify this one.

ok

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think Gamma is capable of faking anger in that kind of way as scum.

[Prism]

I don't really think Gamma is capable of faking anger in that kind of way as scum.

I thought #213 was very genuine, I wouldn't be surprised if the posts on the prior page were as well.

It's the selection of 215 and 218 in particular that ping me. 215 was a run of the mill answer and nothing special. 218 was not very special either but in particular was very alignment-independent I think: regardless of whether Gamma is scum or town, he's going to be annoyed at this player he thinks has it in reverse. A lot of players feel it more powerfully when they know the other person is town, and think they're wrong. What in the process of reading either of these served as the switch for you?

[Prism]

Actually that last sentence of 215 was a lot better than my first pass over it

[Cheetory6]

The last bit of 218 was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back of me having been wavering pretty hard on the scumlean.

I've done a lot of Gamma metadiving lately and it's just something that isn't a part of his scumgame in the same way that it is his towngame.
[and I don't think he's been caught out on a lack of anger as a scumtell/it's not something that I think a lot of people are aware of. I didn't really think he'd suddenly start faking being angry in a scumgame [and I also didn't think it was something he'd be likely to convincingly fake without practice]]

[Cheetory6]

Like, realistically I was thinking it around 213, but I don't always like admitting that I'm wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually have faked being angry as scum but it failed horribly imo
I'm kinda facing a bit of information overload with this game rn, lots of substantial posts going after people

[implosion]

This seems off to me. You're thinking of this in terms of expected outcomes/values already. Do you feel as though the backtrack on the claim is more likely as scum?

The EV thing isn't how I'm thinking about the game, it's just an attempt to help explain boon's meta. I'm not sure how you get that from the post.

From your perspective though, I feel like this is a statement on possible motivation with little focus on the likelihood of each, and I don't like it.

Pretty sure I've explained elsewhere why exactly I think the scum motivation is more likely. I guess I haven't really in depth but basically just a lot of what he's done around it reads like plain bullshit. The claim about wanting to bait a hammer, the half-assed "oh i'm not sure if i remember what my role pm was maybe it was vt". And the admitting that he's really scummy and claiming he's willing to eat a lynch for it. All of that is just gross.

I think beeing clear and logical are not exactly antitown.
So a player who looks protown is the same as someone who allways looks scummy?

This isn't the point I'm making; the point is just that MoI is making a lot of assumptions. It's partially a rhetorical style he has but his read on me in particular is rooted in assumptions about/misinterpretations of my posts. It's certainly protown to be clear and logical but town players aren't always, and don't always explain the entirety of their decision-making process unprompted.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lol, everything I said was true, though

[Flavor Leaf]

Just after my lynch, make sure to lynch on my wagon

[CultOfAthena]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This only happens if I’m scum or am getting pushed by stubborn town relentlessly despite the contrary to reasons why I would be mechanically town.

I don’t care if people scum read me, just accept you can be wrong and be willing to at least try to work it out.

It's less about your alignment, and more about avoiding an avalanche of pages pre-flips. I am pretty shamelessly in favour of policy/utility lynching anyone not a town read. Anyway, the wind seems to be blowing in Saudade's direction, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saudade

After sleeping on it, I'm back to preferring Flavor Leaf over Saudade. Too much

"wah wah woe is me"

and

"Ah, but I wouldn't actually play scum that way"

posts, not to mention the weird goading people into attacking him then claiming it was a Trap™. If he's scum, cool, if he's town, no big deal. He'll probably just radiate other flavours of bad plays tomorrow, and then before you know it, he'll be requesting votes and laying traps in LYLO. Alright, maybe that last bit is an exaggeration, but for real, lets just nip it in the bud now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[CultOfAthena]

I have no idea what the relevance of what you're saying here is. What does my early scumlean on Hoopla have to do with her being good at scum? Wouldn't it only make sense to say this to me if I was gut townreading Hoopla?

It means your read is terrible and you have no clue how to read Hoopla if you think that early game material is scum-lean worthy. My limited experience with you prior to this says you aren’t terrible. So I’m left in a quandary.

In what way? Is this some RaidantCowbells-style "You wouldn't be able to catch me from these posts if I were scum"? Please, explain instead of just calling my read terrible. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all to look at what I quoted just above and see scum there.

[CultOfAthena]

Spoiler: VoteCount Settings

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UCV: You don't need to repost the VC settings every time you want to post another votecount. Simply direct the votecounter to your previously posted settings.

[CultOfAthena]

@StefanB, where are you at in terms of reads? I can't really get a good sense from reading your posts. Also, you never responded to 245.

[StefanB]

Hello Cult:
I completly missed that question, sorry.

I started it, because I was more sure about Hoopla. This is not unnormal for me.
Since then I have heared that Hooplas play is normal like that.

This are the read you should have goten from my iso(or I should have made more clear):

Implosion his last post make me read scum here.
Flavour: I don't know, he is driving me nuts.
Grey: Townread
Saudade: Townread

I originally had a MoIscumread but his last post remind me more of townMoI even if the meta is older.

About the other Players: I have a townread on Cheetory, Gamma I should look at a few scumgames, but I see him similar to town-gama I know of.

Prism is to new in the game to get a read on in my opinion.

The players not mentioned, I have no concret read, allthough I think MoIs case on Erica is good, so mild scum, but this is not a personal read.

[StefanB]

Lol, everything I said was true, though

Can you be more specific, because that is freaking imposible. What of your posts is true? What should we take as facevalue?
And if you are town, there is scum that stays away from a lynchbaitwaggon (I have seen games were an all-townwaggon on town got to lynch)