Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[GreyICE]

Is she in your QT, Stefan?

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: stefan
everyone pretend that this vote came before stefan's last posts because it has nothing to do with them

[GreyICE]

Why more people should be voting StephanB

(I'm actually really sad MOI didn't pick up on any of this, this is normally his jam)

I've been watching StephanB since this post. It's a lame entry, but worse than that is the apology. Like he read the medium-length post, realized it was a lame entry to the thread, didn't really want to post more, but felt guilty over that. That's not a behavior I associate with town. It's not a perfect scumtell (bad news, those don't exist) but it makes me notice a person. Now what really started to get to me was this:

Okay I believed the L-1 to freely he had 4 votes on him, when he selvoted and claimed. (You can call me an idiot for believing in stated L-1 without checking)
Aside from the reaction I have not yet a real read on Flavour.

I stated reads in my first post today.

The post he admitted was not good. Now, what the hell? Town can make a lame post, town can even reread it and go "wow that's a lame post, sorry", but does town then refer back to it as "my reads post" to answer other people's questions? I'll go over some other things that have been bugging me for quite some time:

This epic fence sit.

It's like he realizes Flavor Leaf is playing poorly, but then says "Flavor is obvious messing with us" and "why does Flavor play like he does as scum?"

If Flavor is "obviously messing with us" then why does that make him town? Why does flavor play like that as scum? More to the point, why is he interrogating other people about why flavor does what he does, rather than just asking flavor? It doesn't smell of any scumhunting from Stefan.

So that was bad. What was his response to me voting him?

Grey: You have pushing the waggon for Flavor all the way to L-1, why stopping now?

Sometimes all you have to do is hold out the noose and see if they stick their head in. For someone who just claimed to have trouble reading Flavor and just claimed to not find the scum motivation for his behavior, it should be GLARINGLY OBVIOUS why I stopped voting him instead of pushing for hammer. Especially when I say this in my vote change post:

I'm starting to think Flavor Leaf is just... look, the mods already have it out for me, just insert whatever you want here okay? If god is good, we have a vig, and they nail Flavor Leaf between the eyes, then we don't have to worry about this anymore. Vigs are probably in at least 30% of mini normals, I've got to hope they shoot flavor leaf of all people.

This just feels like "why can't you make today easy?"

[GreyICE]

VOTE: stefan
everyone pretend that this vote came before stefan's last posts because it has nothing to do with them

You're stealing my thunder, man.

But goodvoting anyway? Not that you have to work harder to convince me you're town or something

[GreyICE]

(Also I promise less playing Slay the Spire, more goodposting)

[StefanB]

Grey: How does your question have anythink to do with it?
I asked you to help me read Hoopla. I know you scumread me, but could you still be some kind of polite?
A simple no I will not help you would have been enough.

Okay I am tyred of trying to get in the game.

VOTE: Hoopla

You can all tell me that I am a bad player, can't read her, blabla, but nope your are all so great in reading her.
I have played one game with her (a marathon shit meta I know), but:

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell everyone.

I had a dream (like, a sleep dream -- this isn't the start of an inspirational speech) that we decided to no-lynch as performance art and in a show of solidarity scum decided to no-kill. I can't decide if it's pleasant or alarming that this game has already pierced my subconscious so effectively.

This isn't really related to anything, just wanted to distract from the fact I haven't started scumhunting yet wanted to share

reminded me strongly about that one.

You shure lets lynch semi-random because town sucks is town.
Lets lynch someone semi-expendable.

and 453 is still unbelivable, town lynched without a claim because the day goes out in 30% of mini-normals?
I have checked a few (okay 200 hundreds games) for how bad town does. Mostly it was VT lynched, but mafia or Sk-lynches outnumber town-nonvanilla 2:1. I would ask Hoopla to link to anythink that gives that thought even an ounce of creditability.

What I didn't find in her ISO anythink that looks like scumhunting, or helping out that isn't in her I am willing to lynch half a dozen player in 546?

I am done listening at the moment.

[Gamma Emerald]

stefan case feels good but I'm gonna sit on it for a bit

[StefanB]

Grey do me one favour and learn my name, btw, this is our third game together.

Yepp I am guilty about feeling bad to play like I play here. Apologising to much is a problem for me when I am feeling I am not doing well.
Congratulation you just analyse my personality and called it not town.

About Flavor: Yepp, I am not so confortable lynching a WTF-read, I also don't like plays like Flavors.
You can call this fencesitting, but most players were scum/town-whatever lets just lynch.

And you were on the waggon, and left it, while your read didn't chance, and unvoted the moment that got to L-1.
Questioning you at the moment would be normal, if anythink I should have pushed harder.

Anythink else that is normal that you want to call me scum for?

[Cheetory6]

You're stealing my thunder, man.

But goodvoting anyway? Not that you have to work harder to convince me you're town or something

Oops s:
I guess it was my preemptive way of saying thanks for making a case that makes my vote look justifiable .
c:

[GreyICE]

You're beating that drum super hard, Stefan. I never said you were a bad player. I was never rude to you. If you think not answering a question is rudeness, I hate to break it to you, I do not answer 100% of questions in mafia. Or probably even 50%. The above was me answering a question MOI asked me a while ago, and that was delayed quite a bit.

But let me turn that question back around:

The Flavourwagon: I have Saudade and Cheetory as town.

Hoopla is Hoopla.

Gamma doesn't feel that diferent from his town-meta.

Leaves Implosion or Hoopla the last I can't read.

Who fits the go with the flow the best.

Okay Cheetory, Hoopla: WTF?
Okay rediculling Flavors theory makes sense, but this is very strange clowning around.
Why are you two implying that you are mafia and whith each other?
I know Hoopla is imposible to read blabla, will be nk blabla, you can't get her if she is scum.

Anyone really has anythink that this is town-Hoopla?

So you can't read Hoopla? Okay. Then why are you eager to vote her and slow to vote Flavor Leaf? Because you yourself said you couldn't figure out what he was doing. And let me assure you, Hoopla on day 3 is useful. Flavor Leaf on day 3... look, no experience, but I just don't see it happening if you know what I mean.

PEdit: Sorry, I fucking suck at names, they're like pronunciation (ask my wife how often I mispronounce things). It's why I use nicknames so often. And I thought I had yours too.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quick phone post to say life is super busy and will try to post substantially tonight.

UNVOTE: Implosion

I was thinking he was referencing a different game. On review yeah this may indeed be just a play style approach issue and given that was a good portion of my scummy feelings on Implosion I’m going to pull back and reevaluate.

Grey I’ll read your post tonight in depth.

[Flavor Leaf]

stefan case feels good but I'm gonna sit on it for a bit

Stefan is town af. They’re just picking his posts apart to make him look bad.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Grey - I’m a late game town powerhouse who completely takes control of games and solves as town.

There was a long amount of time when I was a fear kill and ALWAYS was night killed and it pissed me off, so I had to change my playstyle so I’d be able to live as town.

Nonetheless, I think Grey is town.

There is 100% scum in Hoopla, Cheetory, Implosion. I’m leaning more on the former two, as I see Implosion as a mislynchable player.

[Cheetory6]

flavor it's d1 though all of your reads are wrong remember?

[Flavor Leaf]

flavor it's d1 though all of your reads are wrong remember?

I actually have rather strong gut reads as town early, but I can’t really case those because I need more to analyze and fill the puzzle.

[Cheetory6]

oh so I should assume you're scum then if your read on me is wrong?

[Flavor Leaf]

My day 1 town reads are generally better than my day 1 scum reads, but I go forth with the assumption I am correct as it helps me see things. When things start not to add up, I switch.

[Flavor Leaf]

oh so I should assume you're scum then if your read on me is wrong?

Nah, you should assume I’m town.

[Cheetory6]

okay flavor is town then

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, and you were town, you’d be a hard town read for me, as you’d be easy to hide behind and let you push through the mislynches.

[Flavor Leaf]

okay flavor is town then

This is what I like to hear.

I’ll stay on Hoopla because of this.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh wow I've literally played with scum Flavor before, I just have to read it again. Makes my life easier.

Which game was this?

[GreyICE]

Hey pothead, I'm town but my case sucks?

What would I be doing differently if I were scum, pray tell?

[StefanB]

Okay, I should not have called you rude, but I think the anger could have actually helped me get in the game.

About Hoopla, I had a scumread here, since I arrived.
I listened to nearly everyone that she was her normal self and I can't read here.
A lot of players told me that I can't read Hoopla and so on.
The scumread stayed.
The first post was weak, I give that to you, I listened to you and MoI and some others who told me that I can't read her.
And today I decieded that I was done listening, tread Hoopla like any other player, look again at her ISO and do whatever I want.

The second post you really don't see that this is I am scumreading her, tell my why this is town?
Basicly everyone is saying ignore Hoopla for today, we don't care if she is scum.
And normal players can't read her.

The difference to FL is that here I had only a scumread when I go straigh by facts. Aka selfvoting, early claiming, giving two different claims. If that all hasn't happened in the 24 hours in the game and deliberatly done (I assume) without benefit to either aligment with people stating this is completly normal for both town and scumgame of Flavor, I would have loved the waggon.

So I fealed ambivalent about Flavor. So joining the waggon would have meaned to go by that is scummy, so you vote because you give up on understanding this.

In my opinion this is exactly the oposite situation as Hoopla.

And yeah useful on later days is not somethink I do pretty well. If a player is ussful as town, he is also ussful as scum. The only way I am lystening to that kind of argument is when we are talking about a very bad VI.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why more people should be voting StephanB

I've been watching StephanB since this post. It's a lame entry, but worse than that is the apology. Like he read the medium-length post, realized it was a lame entry to the thread, didn't really want to post more, but felt guilty over that. That's not a behavior I associate with town. It's not a perfect scumtell (bad news, those don't exist) but it makes me notice a person. Now what really started to get to me was this:

Why is the apology weird? I tend to want to apologize in that kind of scenario when I’m town moreso than when I’m scum. Town wants to help out, and if they don’t have any reads, they feel guilty. I don’t understand the reasoning behind this scum tell at all, because if anything it helps me lean town on Stefan. Sure, it can be fabricated, but the sense of it being fabricated still means it would be done to come across as town. Why apologize at all if scum? Why not just fabricate reads?

Okay I believed the L-1 to freely he had 4 votes on him, when he selvoted and claimed. (You can call me an idiot for believing in stated L-1 without checking)
Aside from the reaction I have not yet a real read on Flavour.

I stated reads in my first post today.

The post he admitted was not good. Now, what the hell? Town can make a lame post, town can even reread it and go "wow that's a lame post, sorry", but does town then refer back to it as "my reads post" to answer other people's questions? I'll go over some other things that have been bugging me for quite some time:

Again, why is this scummy rather than townie? Why not just defend the post and try to explain it. Seems like by saying he sees it as some terrible post is him admitting he made a bad post that could come across as scummy. Town make scummy posts all the time.

This epic fence sit.

It's like he realizes Flavor Leaf is playing poorly, but then says "Flavor is obvious messing with us" and "why does Flavor play like he does as scum?"

If Flavor is "obviously messing with us" then why does that make him town? Why does flavor play like that as scum? More to the point, why is he interrogating other people about why flavor does what he does, rather than just asking flavor? It doesn't smell of any scumhunting from Stefan.

So that was bad. What was his response to me voting him?

*thinks Flavor Leaf is playing poorly. I highly disagree. That’s what I want you all to feel. It makes scum think I’m mislynchable when I’m actually likely one of the harder people to lynch on site. You may not like my style, but my style gets results. You have a very biased point of view. This is actually ripping Stefan for what I sense as poor town play that comes across as scummy rather than scum agenda play. I don’t see any scum agenda in Stefan’s play.

Grey: You have pushing the waggon for Flavor all the way to L-1, why stopping now?

Sometimes all you have to do is hold out the noose and see if they stick their head in. For someone who just claimed to have trouble reading Flavor and just claimed to not find the scum motivation for his behavior, it should be GLARINGLY OBVIOUS why I stopped voting him instead of pushing for hammer. Especially when I say this in my vote change post:

This is just simple theory/history of the game.

I'm starting to think Flavor Leaf is just... look, the mods already have it out for me, just insert whatever you want here okay? If god is good, we have a vig, and they nail Flavor Leaf between the eyes, then we don't have to worry about this anymore. Vigs are probably in at least 30% of mini normals, I've got to hope they shoot flavor leaf of all people.

This just feels like "why can't you make today easy?"

They likely won’t and really have no reason too. I believe I’m adding a good amount of quality posts lately, proving your entire projecting and attempt at discrediting moot.