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[Not Known 15]

The scum team is TIAM/Mohab/Tchill.
And now Tchill is desperately trying to get someone of us mislynched.
Saying even that TIAM is lock scum for them without voting for them.

[Tchill13]

There's 4 or 5 things I will adequately explain later and One gives us the ability to hard TR eddie after a nk flip. Which would work with a tiam flip since they're definitely scum together.

I'll post again in 7 or 8 hours.

[Tchill13]

Please, please don't do anything stupid.

[Boonskiies]

Working until like 9 hours after this post. You’re gonna have a long twilight if you end the day phase.

[Eddie Cane]

Mod influence%%

[Eddie Cane]

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Mechanics can go first, and then it'll go on. 1) TIAM claimed Miller after MD. Mort claimed neighbourizer miller. NK claimed non consec doc. Tiam claimed weak friendly neighbour. Eddie, RB, and Mohab are all VT claims. Following, 2) It is an empirical fact Mohab and Tchill are aligned together. The only way this isn't the case is if town!Tchill targeted Mohab last night, Mohab roleblocked him and then successfully claimed to receive the weak shot. This scenario is so unlikely that we are not going to consider it a possibility and if we lose to it so be it. So, yes, for the remainder of the game consider them a pairing. 3) Miller usually is a valid CC to miller, ya. However, there's no cop (claim) itg anyways, so miller shouldn't exist. Neither makes the other any more likely to exist and I'd recommend you treat them separately. I really, really hope TIAM is scum because otherwise I have no words, but regardless they are seperate entities and if real are just named townies. 4) I went into the day thinking town had to have another investigative. This makes Tchill probably town. However, a lot of his play has pinged me, as has Mohab's. Very annoying, but their claims make them very likely town I reckon. Helps that Mohab is pretty townie in reviewal of meta (I'll get into that later). However, 5)

I'm a town 2 shot weak friendly neighbor. I shot screen night one, which is why I was against his stupid lynch. And I shot mohab last night. Mohab please confirm.

This doesn't make sense, because if Screen was scum he was Ascetic so nothing would've happened anyways.

I straight up forgot about the weak modifier. Tried to save screen because it was an obvious TvT discussion. Then I honestly didn't know who was town but mohab just gave off a very towny vibe and I just picked him for the sake of more information for somebody on town. I didn't realize it would actually clear him for me personally until that was brought up.

Still doesn't make sense. It clearly wasn't obvious TvT because the rest of the entire game had one or both of us as scum. I need clarifications here on your thought process. Also, why you wouldn't crumb a weak role which is p much your only job. 6) Mechanically, TIAM actually is almost certainly scum. This isn't gonna be something people in this game are gonna have the experience to know just from saying this, but bear with me. Every single player alive believe's he's scum. This indicates he is scum and is being bussed. He is less likely (not impossible) to be partners with Mohab and Tchill. This fits with my presumption that Mohab and Tchill are likely town. 7) Similarly, no player aside Mohab thinks I'm scum and Mohab doesn't want to lynch me today. This makes me very likely town. There's also other things that make me very likely town, mainly everything Kookoo did bleeding town, but I don't think I need to expand on this because I'm getting killed tonight. 8) Following the above, this means scum team is a subset of {Tiam, NK15, RB, Mort} roughly in that order. I do not read Mort as lock town anymore because his engagement has been pre low and his pushes have been pre bad, but I think he's still the most likely town in that 4 (we need to talk about that though). I don't TR MohabChill enough to say I'm confident in this, but I TR them enough to say in all likelyhood I won't be voting them and the rest of you have been scummy to the point that I'm alright losing. I really do hope Mort is town because it means my reads aren't actually as awful as I thought they were, but I am pinged by a lot of things. 9) Speaking of being pinged, Tchill has done it a lot. A lot feels buddy'y, even though I'm hesitant to treat being nice as "buddy-y" because that's a really bad precedent to set. His reads have been pretty good, but I don't know how much I believe they're reasonable to have based on his knowledge as a "weak FN". Also, the claim janky stuff kinda worries me. Overall though despite those negative points, I think I want to trust my predecessor and Pisskop on him being town. 10) People don't respect dead people's reads, but following the above yes that is something you should do if they are at least semi competent and despite how much disdain I have for Pisskop intentionally playing to annoy me and faking his role ye he's decent and so is Screen. Piss had Chilly as town, which good. Screen having Tchill as scum worries me, but meh, he's clearly awful itg cause his top two scumreads were me and Piss and sheeping that on Piss did not resolve well. 11) Actually, just remembered Lovebird was Vanilla Cop which makes life harder aaaaah 12) Dunker kill clearly implicates NK15 13) Ugh. This game is really hard. Dead players with a lot of Tchill experience afaik are scumreading him. Ugh x2. 14) ...However, he also had Mohab as town, so lets solve it from that end if possible. - going out but i need to finally post something LoL gun to head im still at tiam / nk15 / (rb > mort) in a different town this would be so much easier i'll finish later, gonna do invididual stuff and i am CLOSE to wanting to vote tiam / nk15 / rb and b done w it but not there no votes please ill finish writing later

[Eddie Cane]

lol hastebin fucked up the format

[Eddie Cane]

I'm very close to voting nk15 BTW

[Tchill13]

ok i'll try to answer Eddie first.

Inactivity and Role:
I haven't kept up with this game at all. Multiple times i almost failed to send in a night action because i didn't realize the night phase was almost over (the only 2 shots i had). I don't believe meta is how you should read me BUT if you'll look at my past games my activity is much more comparable to this day phase opposed to the rest of the game, even as scum. This is the 3rd game i've played that i've let get away from me in my whole career i do believe. I forgot about my role completely to begin with. I forgot about the "weak" modifier until I looked at my role pm before claiming (I always double check because if you mess up an honest claim it could lead to trouble)

Night actions:
I chose to shoot screen because he's the player I was most familiar with and I just hoped he was town. I chose to shoot Mohab because i pretty much just said screw it and it seemed mohab was the towniest among the rest of the group at quick glance. Mohab seemed to posts thoughts without hesitation and the thoughts seemed genuine enought to get a TR ffrom me MAINLY OPPOSED to what i had to choose from. I wasn't worried about my death because I forgot the modifier.

TvT:
Now ik I said I argued against Screens lynch because i shot him but I also said I forgot about the modifier. I fought against his lynch because the events between Kookoo and Screen led me to believe they were both town and even though obviously Screen wasn't "confirmed" in my eyes (forgot the modifier) I didn't want to kill a TR that KNEW I was town. Who would want to do that?

Now i kept calling it "obvious TvT" because of this: Mafia has 2 crucial parts of the game. FIGURING OUT the scum team and CONVINCING others. Each part as crucial as the other. Players that are egotistical because they're great at catching scum on an average basis sometimes get frustrated because they can't convince other players. Say what you will about kookoo but he came off as a player with plenty of knowledge of the game and he seemed like he knew what he was talking about. Everyone has a bad game from time to time and his attitude made it worse. If Kookoo was town that was convinced screen was scum i can easily see an egotistical player fake claiming (in line with the "im better than yall and i can afford to play the game MY way to win" reasoning) to push a lynch through because they are awful at convincing players due to the fact they egomaniacs think they are better, therefore their explanation isn't worth their time because you can't comprehend on the level they can. I've seen this line of reasoning multiple times on this site from players i consider to be good but can hurt town from time to time due to their "im better than everyone else, I can get away with this" attitude. I've yet to see scum fake a guilty multiple days before lylo. It just doesn't make sense for scum in the long run.

I thought Screen was town at this point because he was the opposition of this attack. What do scum have to gain from faking a guilty to get someone lynched? Then admitting to it on top of that? It gaurantees they'll be lynched the next day phase which puts scum in a worse position in the long run. Thats my breakdown of why it was TvT to me.

[Tchill13]

I don't think I should. At least not if I want to be alive tomorrow.

From a game theory perspective, i would support massclaim, from what my role is, I don't support it.

ok this clearly looks like tiam is hinting at a miller claim. How these could suggest a motion detector claim i do not know.

I am town motion detector.

Night 1: eth0s - No movement
Night 2: Not Known 15 No movement
Night 3: Tchill - No result

TAKE YOU'RE VOTES OFF. ONE MISS VOTE WINS SCUM THE GAME.

We have to finish the massclaim yes, but it's a lot more useless in lylo when anyone can fake claim yolo and if we mislynch its over.

TIAM saw no movement.
I am a Non-Consecutive Night Doctor.
No action Night 1.
I acted Night 2.<-and TIAM saw no movement
No action Night 3(obviously)

TIAM is lying.

So Tiam lied about a fake claim that ONLY interacted with NK then NK's claim specifically countered tiam and only interacted with him. This is why at some point i believe NK and tiam decided to bus they'd be ok with bussing Tiam. Tiam was clearly hinting at a miller claim Then BOTH of their claims only interacted with each other??? Very odd.

Not lying. But I really don't have any defense so do what you must, it will lose you the game.

Tiam holds to his guns. If town he is willing to LOSE THE GAME on an outright CC from NK.

but if he's scum with NK here and Tiam was lynched immediately wouldn't this get NK STRONG town cred?

Ok, I admit it I am lying.

I am actually town miller and forgot to claim and thought it would get me lynched.

then Tiam defaults back to the miller claim which he hinted at earlier. Which leads me to believe his fake claim was planned because not only did he hint at it earlier but his fake claim, that he was willing to lose town the game for, only involved NK and NK's claim only involved Tiam.

They are confirmed scum together due to Tiam originally bread crumbing a miller claim then changing it, then changing back to the miller.

[Eddie Cane]

despite my doubts a big reason i want to lynch not tchill is hes the only one tryna solve besides me and idc if effort =alignment it does =my desire to not lynch u

[Tchill13]

Heyoka is hard null, but if they're town RB, Pisskop, Screenplay, Tchill contains 2 scum.

Pisskop, eth0s, Not Known 15, and Mohab have no tangible content.

I just noticed that they put Pisskop in both the no tangible content and the contains scum categories, for no apparent reason.
VOTE: Kookoobird

Heyoka is hard null, but if they're town RB, Pisskop, Screenplay, Tchill contains 2 scum.

Pisskop, eth0s, Not Known 15, and Mohab have no tangible content.

I just noticed that they put Pisskop in both the no tangible content and the contains scum categories, for no apparent reason.
VOTE: Kookoobird

I don't see that this has been answered or responded to. I guess it is because Kookoo is scum wanting to hide this scumslip.
After we lynch Kookoo and they flip scum we need to take a look at Pisskop because they were probably misplaced as scum partner of Kookoo.

Lynch Kookoo

If Kookoo is some strong mafia power role I'd say the Screen accusations could be a bus; more so because they didn't claim ascetic Day 1; you just need to look which role died last night to know why this would be a terrible idea as Town; it is more likely to come from scum.

No I'm not saying that's his personality. I'm saying because of his personality he's probably town. I highly, highly doubt a decent player fakes a guilty as scum there.

Oh really.
Decent players would do that there. Provided they think that they can get away with it. And it looks like there are too many town that think that way, so it is not entirely unreasonable. I am pretty sure that if Kookoo is a decent player they thought they can get away with it. Don't fall into that trap.

No I'm not saying that's his personality. I'm saying because of his personality he's probably town. I highly, highly doubt a decent player fakes a guilty as scum there.

Oh really.
Decent players would do that there. Provided they think that they can get away with it. And it looks like there are too many town that think that way, so it is not entirely unreasonable. I am pretty sure that if Kookoo is a decent player they thought they can get away with it. Don't fall into that trap.

I'm not understanding the assumption that he's a decent player.

I am not really convinced that Kookoo is a decent player, hence the "if"
I am convinced that Kookoo is scum.

OK the only real push NK makes is kookoo/eddie. He doubles down on it after kookoo fakes a guiltie. If NK is scum and Kookoo/eddie is town NK gets no blame for the mislynch due to the awful fake guilty from town. It never picks up traction and Nk just seems to drop his push.

NK you don't think it's odd that tiams claim contradicted yours then morts?
I think TIAM is scum desperately trying not to get lynched.
No.
Just coincidence to you?

Why not?

You know eddie replaced into this slot that you were determined was scum right?

Oh yeah eddie was kookoo.
But I am still sure that you and Mohab and TIAM are scum, so I guess I was wrong at that point.

Now why would NK be willing to lock town Kookoo/eddie after that first push. Especially after screen flipped town? (i've went in depth as to why i think kookoo is town but from eddies perspective shouldn't this further his suspicion of kookoo scum?) I dont think i even see a mention of kookoo/eddie scum from nk after screen flips town.

now obviously if Nk is scum he's dropped his eddie push for a Tiam/mohab/tchill push because my claim is awful from everyone's perspective. Not only that but it fits his "bus TIAM" plan very nicely.

This means if Nk is scum (he is) Kookoo/eddie is a mislynch he pushed that never went through. I don't see a scenario where NK is scum with Eddie. He flat out just dropped his distance of his scum partner if so and thats too risky for scum to do. Ususally thers some explanation for not being suspicious of your partner anymore and NK provides no reason why he's not suspicious of eddie anymore after in fact he should be MORE suspicious of eddie due to screen flipping town.

[Eddie Cane]

case the third for me. more interested in that.

[Tchill13]

im getting there. thats the most difficult one due to the toss up between RB and Mort. Give me a b it more time because i had those 2 planned bore i got home. I don't have the RB case ready yet entirely.

[Tchill13]

Not lying. But I really don't have any defense so do what you must, it will lose you the game.

This does not come from a town mindset.


Tchill, you have not claimed.
rb has not claimed.
Mohab claims VT.
Eddie claims VT
I claim Non-Consecutive Night Doctor
TIAM claims Motion Detector.
Mort claims Neighborizer

now Rb claimed VT. I've never seen the entirety of the scum team claim a role. One always claims VT.

Mort claimed neighborizer miller and that would be the Boon role for this game. Boon always has one weird role and mort could be it. An insane fake claim from scum if thats the case rn and i don't believe it is.

Eddie and mohab are locktown for me so via PoE the VT claim that is scum is RB.

not the entire case... just the first step.

[Eddie Cane]

doubt there's any merit in the first point of all pr claims but yea I was thinking morts claim sounds boony

[Tchill13]

i almost feel bad about how transparently scummy 2iam is

Was serious with my question to rb. How do you read tiam?

hes scum with screenplay

im fine with lynching screen/2iam/pisskop/eth0s

all who object, please report to the headmaster's office for corrective procedures

RB is scummier than pisskop I think he was on both town wagons.

um

um

VOTE: 2iam

Rb mentions how scummy tiam is several times before voting him.

and you're kidding yourself if you think I wouldn't.

im pisskop. ive voted dead players in lylo. and still won

VOTE: pisskop

ye

That tiam vote doesn't last very long. Quickly finds a reason to vote someone else.

Okay i have a serious problem with dunker here because i think 2iam is NOT his town meta, and his reason for townreading him is the exact opposite to me

thats not cool m8

mentions again disagreeing with a tiam TR.

Can people give me their opinions of NK15

Cant read them

this is his first mention of NK i do believe. Very nuetral stance.

well either 2iam or NK15 is scum

AND THIS IS WHERE THE PLANNED BUS COMES INTO PLAY.

if youre scum you arent gonna go for perfect victory if its less likely than overall victory

Si if RB is scum do you think he'd go for a perfect victory based off this statement? Seems like he wouldn't to me. Which once again lines up with a planned bus of tiam.

It makes you a 'conftown' as insurance after 2iam is lynched as well

And here it is. Bus tiam, convince others Mohab and Tchill are scum. Then scum win.

[Tchill13]

Scum obviously planned the bus because Tiam was clearly crumbing a miller claim.

At some point scum decided tiam would fake claim something that would contradict scum to get them Town cred.

That is why RB/NK/tiam is the scum team. They came into today saying bus Tiam. Use the town cred to finish the game the next day phase. RB even has a post stating how difficult a perfect scum victory is LMAO.

[Tchill13]

lock it up. GG's.

[Eddie Cane]

Mechanics can go first, and then it'll go on.

1) TIAM claimed Miller after MD. Mort claimed neighbourizer miller. NK claimed non consec doc. Tiam claimed weak friendly neighbour. Eddie, RB, and Mohab are all VT claims. Following,
2) It is an empirical fact Mohab and Tchill are aligned together. The only way this isn't the case is if town!Tchill targeted Mohab last night, Mohab roleblocked him and then successfully claimed to receive the weak shot. This scenario is so unlikely that we are not going to consider it a possibility and if we lose to it so be it. So, yes, for the remainder of the game consider them a pairing.
3) Miller usually is a valid CC to miller, ya. However, there's no cop (claim) itg anyways, so miller shouldn't exist. Neither makes the other any more likely to exist and I'd recommend you treat them separately. I really, really hope TIAM is scum because otherwise I have no words, but regardless they are seperate entities and if real are just named townies.
4) I went into the day thinking town had to have another investigative. This makes Tchill probably town. However, a lot of his play has pinged me, as has Mohab's. Very annoying, but their claims make them very likely town I reckon. Helps that Mohab is pretty townie in reviewal of meta (I'll get into that later). However,
5)

I'm a town 2 shot weak friendly neighbor.

I shot screen night one, which is why I was against his stupid lynch.

And I shot mohab last night.

Mohab please confirm.

This doesn't make sense, because if Screen was scum he was Ascetic so nothing would've happened anyways.

I straight up forgot about the weak modifier. Tried to save screen because it was an obvious TvT discussion. Then I honestly didn't know who was town but mohab just gave off a very towny vibe and I just picked him for the sake of more information for somebody on town. I didn't realize it would actually clear him for me personally until that was brought up.

Still doesn't make sense. It clearly wasn't obvious TvT because the rest of the entire game had one or both of us as scum. I need clarifications here on your thought process. Also, why you wouldn't crumb a weak role which is p much your only job.
6) Mechanically, TIAM actually is almost certainly scum. This isn't gonna be something people in this game are gonna have the experience to know just from saying this, but bear with me. Every single player alive believe's he's scum. This indicates he is scum and is being bussed. He is less likely (not impossible) to be partners with Mohab and Tchill. This fits with my presumption that Mohab and Tchill are likely town.
7) Similarly, no player aside Mohab thinks I'm scum and Mohab doesn't want to lynch me today. This makes me very likely town. There's also other things that make me very likely town, mainly everything Kookoo did bleeding town, but I don't think I need to expand on this because I'm getting killed tonight.
8) Following the above, this means scum team is a subset of {Tiam, NK15, RB, Mort} roughly in that order. I do not read Mort as lock town anymore because his engagement has been pre low and his pushes have been pre bad, but I think he's still the most likely town in that 4 (we need to talk about that though). I don't TR MohabChill enough to say I'm confident in this, but I TR them enough to say in all likelyhood I won't be voting them and the rest of you have been scummy to the point that I'm alright losing. I really do hope Mort is town because it means my reads aren't actually as awful as I thought they were, but I am pinged by a lot of things.
9) Speaking of being pinged, Tchill has done it a lot. A lot feels buddy'y, even though I'm hesitant to treat being nice as "buddy-y" because that's a really bad precedent to set. His reads have been pretty good, but I don't know how much I believe they're reasonable to have based on his knowledge as a "weak FN". Also, the claim janky stuff kinda worries me. Overall though despite those negative points, I think I want to trust my predecessor and Pisskop on him being town.
10) People don't respect dead people's reads, but following the above yes that is something you should do if they are at least semi competent and despite how much disdain I have for Pisskop intentionally playing to annoy me and faking his role ye he's decent and so is Screen. Piss had Chilly as town, which good. Screen having Tchill as scum worries me, but meh, he's clearly awful itg cause his top two scumreads were me and Piss and sheeping that on Piss did not resolve well.
11) Actually, just remembered Lovebird was Vanilla Cop which makes life harder aaaaah
12) Dunker kill clearly implicates NK15
13) Ugh. This game is really hard. Dead players with a lot of Tchill experience afaik are scumreading him. Ugh x2.
14) ...However, he also had Mohab as town, so lets solve it from that end if possible.

-

going out but i need to finally post something LoL

gun to head im still at tiam / nk15 / (rb > mort)

in a different town this would be so much easier

i'll finish later, gonna do invididual stuff

and

i am CLOSE to wanting to vote tiam / nk15 / rb and b done w it

but not there

no votes please ill finish writing later

[Eddie Cane]

same post as before, just formatted right lmao

i make sure my walls are easy to digest, i'm an english minor and i like to think my writing is very easy to absorb.

[Tchill13]

I'd like Mort and mohabs opinions on the case

[Eddie Cane]

viewtopic.php?t=75496&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

sjofosdjf why does this have to look so goddamn partnery

[Eddie Cane]

I know I already asked for this, but

everyone please reply to this with your scum team guess, all 3 people, and any addendums u wanna make

.

[Tchill13]

I'll do my best to convince you I'm the one that's right.

I'm more sure of nk/tiam/rb than anything else I've ever been sure of on site.