Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[mutantdevle]

What you have to look for in the tin foil is Town thought process and Pint is ripe with it. He can't fake shit that well.

I've played with Pintu in a scum team. He is most certainly good at faking shit and manipulating people. Don't underestimate him.

[mutantdevle]

1. Why don't you believe him then? You think alonzo is wrong about the worst?
2. Are you saying that being busy IRL and lurking is AI?
3. Rvs scum claim??? NAI. Quick vote? He said himself that it was an rxn test.
4. Too bad.
5. Define his town attitude? The way he helps town? The worst practically said earlier that being helpful is NAI for him.

I don't have to justify my vote. I was sheeping momomen like I said earlier. You can't judge me for that since you tried to sheep too

1. Just because he raises a few points that doesn't make him right. Ofc I think he's wrong, hence the town lean on the worst, but that's blatantly not the point. His criticisms of him come from a town PoV and I like that.

2. Again, of course not. My read on Korina has always been that he's scummy. Being inactive isn't going to make my read reset to null.

3. For the RVS claim you are either refusing to acknowledge context to how I view it or have simply forgotten. Go back and read the posts I made about it at the time and you'll understand. Furthermore, I don't believe that was a reaction test. People were criticising it and he backed out in a clever way. The reaction test achieved nothing. Everyone of either alignment is going to criticise you for such a stupid case and there are no conclusions to be made from such a test.

I wanted to see what people would do in reaction to what I said.

I'll post what I got from it later when I have my laptop.

I'm not sure if I'm being blind here but I never saw him say anything about what he got from this. It was a pointless reaction test, it achieved nothing, and, in my opinion, he only claimed that to get out of a shitty read.

5. Town attitude is general game solving and coming from a PoV that he doesn't know people's alignments. Thank you for pointing out what he said about his helpfulness, I've just realised I've been overlooking that. However, there's still a difference between helpfulness and being town since town doesn't know people's alignments.

6. I'm not criticising you for sheeping at all. You're right that you didn't have to justify your vote, so why are you? You're now only just criticising me for things that you could have done any time throughout the game. That sounds like scum trying to justify themselves in light of a potential mislynch. If you are actually just sheeping, what's with these criticisms you're now throwing at me? You're not sheeping MOMO, you're currently building your own reasons to be on my wagon.

[the worst]

devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio

[mutantdevle]

devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio

That website? Awesome.

Pintu? Scummy. His defence of Oxy is weird, especially since he said myself and Oxy could be scum buddies earlier and has barely interacted with him since. He was also using a bit of appeal to emotion in your little argument with him which I saw him use in our scum game together. Other than that, alarm bells are ringing in my head and my gut when I read Pintu's posts and my gut reads are usually more accurate than my more reasonable ones. So take that as you will but just know I am fully up for wagoning him.

[the worst]

farts.

I think he's town.

[the worst]

the initial lurk-lurk-lurk-defence manoeuvre pinged me too but his response was outstanding.

rate the hydra for me?

[the worst]

could you link me to what you perceived to be AtE in your last game with scum!pingu btw?

[mutantdevle]

the initial lurk-lurk-lurk-defence manoeuvre pinged me too but his response was outstanding.

rate the hydra for me?

I trust some of their opinions but not their motives. If they ever flip town then I'll probably sheep some of their reads in their absence.

[mutantdevle]

could you link me to what you perceived to be AtE in your last game with scum!pingu btw?

Spoiler: Pintu being emotionally manipulative

@NSG, I really don't know what to say to you, because you haven't said where the hell are you coming from with your read on me, sorry

Ok, first of all: I am the better vig option. Sorry Gamma, but Dino is right: the stupid wagon on me was a death sentence as I'm not a PR. Town already made that mistake and there's no turning back. And yes, stupid wagon, fucking stupid wagon, because almost all the reads about me on this game were "that post from Pin looks like newb!town" or "I've seen "newb!scum playing like Pin". I subscribed to this game to play with experienced players to learn quickly and be contributive, but no matter how much effort I took (and yeah, a lot of effort using google translate almost the entire time to use the exact words I'm trying to say), no one really cared about what I had to say in this game. "You overexplain yourself" of fucking course I do, I don't speak fluent english, I'm here because of that. I really tried to be helpful, but it was impossible. Please, lynch or vig me this day, as I assume I will be more helpful being dead than alive in this game.

Secondly, and to be a little more positive, I did learn a lot with this game, so thank you all. Hope my flip helps anyone to build better cases on D2 as I feel every single case on this day was Dino talking shit and trying to be MVP.

@pintu: i'll listen to your reads if i'm still alive btw

hope you don't fall into the "fuck the community for D1 lynching me" mindset tbh
the first game i played with hyper-experienced players got me D1 lynched for bullshit reasons
sometimes it's more about charisma than anything else, which can be annoying but things get better

Don't worry, I'll keep playing as my english has already improved and I learned a lot from this game: I need more confidence on myself and my own cases and reads. I know you took time to read what I had to say and there are others that did too, so sorry for generalizing but that's how I felt this game.

Jay: I know.

But right now I seriously doubt if I did anything that would change anything.

I took a look while I was working and I saw no cases. Players are sheeping sheeping players. That's all I can see. Even during a brief look at all the pages I saw plenty of scummy posts from almost all of you. (You're no exception.) Would it be worth pointing the out? I'd spend hours with posting only to face the fact: noone would care.

Exactly how I feel, and it's even more unffair for you since you have done a lot to contribute. It just feels like people took two random wagons just to have a lynch and a vig target. Even if you flip scum, I would say it was just a lucky guess.

This is exactly the shit I was talking about: you guys just like so much the smell of your own farts that it's impossible playing along with you. "I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, THIS WAS ALL PLANNED ALONG!!1!ONE!1" Nicely done, A50

Fair enough Pin, but why not vote Mutant when the wagon built? He was clearly your favoured lynch, or so it seemed.

"Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all", said Pinturicchio, but nobody cared. I will be vigged today as it is the best for town, and I'm town, so now I don't like that strategy.

@Pin:

But then if we followed you and voted A50 then presumably that would also draw out a claim, so...

I'm voting for the player who I now think is the most probable scum of all; if you wanna follow, that's up to you. I'm playing my game now that I'm certainly a dead man walking.

This is Almost's ego finally reaching critical mass. I knew he wouldn't stay silent for too long, especially after he let Dino build it up to be shot Night one by the mafia instead of him.

Pintu, you also have to realize the Vigilante DOES have a mind of their own too. They may very well shoot someone elsa.

Sure, but Vig SHOULD shoot me, as it's better to shoot a VT claim than someone who could be a PR. It's the best for the team, and I'm going to fuck up the vig if he doesn't following the best for the team and trying to be the hero. The ONLY way I survive this is if 1. The JK REALLY thinks I'm town, which I really don't know, or 2. If we get 2 more claims, one of those gets lynched and the other looks scummier than me. I don't expect neither of those happening

Sorry Luca, I'm tired of this bullshit, not giving my thoughts again to not be useful as it had been the entire game. People like NSG and A50 comes from nowhere, starts a wagon without arguments and now I'm 99% dead. Want some quick thoughts? You are locktown, win the game for us and keep pushing those who are playing like shit.

I don't really know why I have to say this, but again: I wasn't voting for mutant, I was voting for Aneninen. Could you stop making assumptions that started off from a lie? Just lynch me already, you qill get more info from that than from A50 lying to get his "I KnEW YOu WeRe gOIng TO do ThaT!!1" gimmick

The lesson here is that I'm right about not being considered in this game. As A50 said in his first read list, "literally, WHO?"

Not gonna lie, this lynch feels wrong
But I just don't see other viable lynches right now with 3 days on the deadline
I guess A50 could be scum but we're not d1 lynching him
I'm pretty low on townreads :/

Why are "WE" not D1 lynching A50???? Because you say so? Because he's not expendable like me or Aneninen?? That's what's going on this game's D1 tbh. Just kill us already without trying to be sweet with us, if you want to play only with experienced players, don't let us in in the first place.

What?

A50 is a player I have a good record of sorting given time and flips. I can generally tell which players fall under that category. It has nothing to do with experience. I'd just as quickly say we're not d1 lynching Paradox.

Again, WE'RE not d1 lynching Paradox? Good for you if you can sort A50, I don't trust you and your reads as me being in this position is partly because of you. The possibility of you being scum with A50 and winning the game just by saying "hey trust me we are not lynching this guy on D1" is getting more and more plausible. What's going to happen tomorrow? What changes between D1 and D2 for A50? He automatically get's his role pasted on his forehead and it becomes obvious what his alignment is?

I'm tired of your leadership, it's full of manipulation and making the game go the way YOU want, but not the rest. Tired of "I know the best for town" vibe

One thing I find fun is after being accused of being on a scum motivated wagon Anen tries to wagon Mathdino.
Like I'm seeing less and less that I like. Fuck it I'm following this lead.
VOTE: Aneninen

He was not accused of being on a scum motivated wagon, the wagon started MUCH AFTER he placed his vote on Mutant. I'm really tired of people reading the fuck they want on this game. Gamma, if you don't trust A50, don't make the game easy for him voting the wagon he is trying to push without reasons.

ME WALLPOSTING? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOW MUCH FUCKING POSTS DO YOU HAVE IN THIS GAME, DINO????

You saying I make wallposts when the only really big post I made was full of spoiler tags is just the cherry of the cake of this game. Saying that the reason this game is mainly to wallposts and not because of your fucking lame 1v1 with Luca to see who has the longer dick is just painful, and the lack of posting of other people could be mainly because of neither wallposts and said 1v1, so could you make any good reads at all, Dino?
P-edit: apology accepted, still thinking the 1v1 was much more determinant

Actually I just want this day finished so I get vigged and look what A50 says when D2 comes. Spoiler alert: "whatever, he was the better option"
VOTE: Aneninen

You saying I make wallposts when the only really big post I made was full of spoiler tags is just the cherry of the cake of this game. Saying that the reason this game is mainly to wallposts and not because of your fucking lame 1v1 with Luca to see who has the longer dick is just painful, and the lack of posting of other people could be mainly because of neither wallposts and said 1v1, so could you make any good reads at all, Dino?
P-edit: apology accepted, still thinking the 1v1 was much more determinant

i neither started that nor insisted that anyone do anything more than skim that

every time that happened i actively asked to disengage

but then it became "yo mathdino is scum for dropping the conversation"

like obviously games are much better without 1v1s, i think the content of 1v1s is barely alignment indicative and should largely be skipped

Disengaging throwing shade in those posts is not disengaging at all, you knew Luca was going to reply to you. Don't try to sell me that shit. I tried to disengage that 1v1 telling Luca to back off, because you were clearly going to keep saying "smarter" shit

If Paradox or Creature claimed VT would you be saying they would have to be lynched at some point? Of course you wouldn't.

creature is just gonna get NK'd

paradox i guess is policyviggable, i wouldn't mind a vig there if he just claimed VT out of nowhere (which would be inherently scummy)

So now you're saying that you wouldn't mind to vig your locktown (as said by you)... I don't really know why the fuck I trusted you

The thing is, if you were townreading someone, there's no chance he would get to L-1 because "we are not lynching him today guys", so let's cut the hypothetical crap?

Well then, what are you waiting for. Jump on the wagon again, let's lynch Aneninen and if he flips town, the vig shoots Dino. If Aneninen flips scum, we follow the first plan and the vig shoots me.

You being scum is in no way conditional on Anen being scum, and obviously verbalising this plan is a bucket of WIFOM.

Do you believe you're never getting lynched given the circumstances?

I didn't understand a single thing of your post. I want this day to end and I'm persuading Luca to lynch Aneninen so we can go on. This has been an eternal dawn for me

Fuck it, I'm not following scum. A50 is pocketing Dino without even trying. Dino: "I'm starting to think that NSG could be scum. A50, what do you think?" - A50: "lynch NSG" - Dino: "Yeah, I agree". WHAT. THE ACTUAL. FUCK.
VOTE: Almost50

OK. So Dino wanted a readlist? Here are my final reads:

1. Mathdino (Town)
2. JaydragonKing (Scum)
3. Almost50 (Town, of course)
4. Luca Blight (Shitty Town)
5. northsidegal (Scum)
6. Creature (How is this still in the game?)
7. Pinturicchio (Shitty Town)
8. Aneninen (Town)
9. Gamma Emerald (Town)
10. TheGoldenParadox (80% Shitty Town, 20% Scum)
11. jmo16mla (Town_
12. mutantdevle (80% Scum, 20% Shitty Town)

Oh, so I went from "the best lynch today because you are clearly scum" to "shitty town"? Throw me some shade, sugar!

Does anyone here legitimately believe that I'm town and A50 is scum?

Because I'm telling you right now that out of anyone in this playerlist, town-me has by FAR the best shot at determining A50's alignment, and I'm saying he's town. If he's not, he's going to be incredibly easy to sort tomorrow.

You guys are utterly failing to understand his progression this game and are essentially proving correct the idea that it's better off to not show up in the thread at all.

The fact that no one sees that A50 and I have a legitimate argument for NSG being weird (and she is in fact posting in every game other than this one, I CHECKED) and that A50 is being explicitly wagoned for it is extremely concerning.

If anyone thinks A50 is scum you're gonna have to make a real nice case for an A50/Mathdino scumteam because you're not going to make a good case for "Mathdino is just fucking wrong about A50 here".

"town-me has by FAR the best shot at determining A50's alignment", "I have a legitimate argument for NSG being weird"... GTFO with your MVPness and accept you are wrong for one fucking time, as you were wrong jumping on Aneninen's and my wagon for no single reason at all

Or either. Man, fuck english

In today's premiere, we have Dino as Anakin Skywalker
Almost50 as Sheev Palpatine
Pin as Mace Windu

Come to the light side, Ani, and prevent shitty prequels

Also Jay as jmo as Jar Jar Binks

Oh, so I went from "the best lynch today because you are clearly scum" to "shitty town"? Throw me some shade, sugar!

Making sarcastic statements like this does basically nothing to convince anyone or advance the gamestate.

Not voting for obv!scum A50 neither

You want to turn this into a "I'm right" "No I'm right" argument?

Like jesus fuck dude this isn't being clever and this isn't adding anything to the discussion. No one has made a good argument for A50-scum yet.

It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?

It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?

Because you and Paradox aren't good at recognising pocketing.

Because you say so, right?

@Pintu: Would you be willing to be called "The Definition of Stupidity" once I flip? I know you think high of your game (almost everybody does) but you are not as good as you may think. Not even close. Nor even remotely close.

I SAY GIVE ME SOME SHADE, SUGAR

It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?

Because you and Paradox aren't good at recognising pocketing.

Because you say so, right?

Because I've pocketed Paradox before and he didn't recognise it at all, and now he thinks that me doing something reasonably different from that is actually pocketing.

And because you're fucking wrong on 2 counts.

If you're interested in improving, you own up to being wrong. If I'm wrong on A50, then yeah, I've learned something. But I'm not wrong here.

Um, I'm not wrong until I see the flip, thank you. Or do you alredy know what's he gonna flip because you are scum? *Shitty Dino argument*

Behaviour like this is essentially exactly why you're playing badly tbh.

Because you say so, right?

Calling pintu/Jay/NSG, outside chance of Luca and jmo.

Edit: pintu what are you planning on saying here if A50 and I both flip town?

I think you are town, stop saying the opposite. If A50 flips town, I will say I was wrong about the pocketing thing and I will move on, as any normal person would do. Or do you think I'm the kind of douchebag that would go and say "well this is Dino and A50's fault because yaddah yaddah"?? Nah, I know one or two guys who would do that here, but not me.

And may I just add that this emotional display essentially got Almost50 lynched instead of us 3 in the scum team who were

all

promising wagons day 1.

Do not underestimate Pintu.

[MOMOMEN]

let's just hit the obvwolf ico

[Sando]

I'm going to bed, got a new gig tomorrow so gotta be sharp. Some thoughts:

a) Oxy's "case" was indeed pretty terrible
b) Duckling response struck me as "jesus dude, THIS is the town I've gotta deal with?!" - but then maybe I'm looking for that since it was my response to Quick. It did seem out of character from duckling though.
c) Pintu's "dun be toxic" is fine in isolation, but given some of the shade thrown around this game, I find it odd that this was what he decided needed attention
d) The overly placating (ok this is the wrong term, but he's kid-gloving duckling here) tone from Pintu strikes me as very odd as well
e) In light of mutants posts (and this is why I want to keep this fella around), Pintu is clearly capable of the level of toxicity he's accusing duckling of, which to be fair is not very high toxicity.

Overall, while I didn't like Ducklings response on a scummy scale, I'm probably biased from my Quick interactions which I felt were fairly similar so I'm not giving much AI points for it.

Pintu's reaction here really does not sit well for me, the effort put in not to actually make a judgement either way while also throwing toxicity charge at Duckling and nicely sneaking in the "this is Oxy's first real game" comment there...

Oxy was town making a bad case imo.

[pisskop]

Ummm I don't want to read but I cannot justify

not

doing so because I have most of my day free . . .

[pinturicchio]

@mutant for the record: me defending Oxy doesn't mean I think he's town. I didn't like Duckling's tone, so I asked him to be careful. You're over reaching with your gut read on me! Either you're very very wrong, ir very very scummy.

[mutantdevle]

You're over reaching with your gut read on me! Either you're very very wrong, ir very very scummy.

You missed the third option where defending someone can easily be interpreted as the defender town reading who they are defending due to that kinda being the whole point of defending someone.

So what is your read on Oxy?

[Oxy]

Just read Mutantdevle's ISO

Somewhat hesitant because the hydra seems pretty confident here

but this is town. There are a few posts that I just don't see coming from scum.

[pinturicchio]

You're over reaching with your gut read on me! Either you're very very wrong, ir very very scummy.

You missed the third option where defending someone can easily be interpreted as the defender town reading who they are defending due to that kinda being the whole point of defending someone.

So what is your read on Oxy?

I think he's town, but I feel he's scum, but I have no sustent to townread nor scumread him. So the real question is: are my gutreads good enough to follow them? And the answer is I don't know.

[Quick]

In no particular order:

Piss
Pint
Despite all Oxy
Mutant

So, Quick, since you said you have a good track record with TRs, I'm going to make an effort here. Have you played with Mutant scum? It doesn't shock me a more competent player seems townie in a game with a bunch of completely useless slots.

-ed

I have not played with Mutant Scum and this doesn't matter until you list examples that this is his Scum play.

[Quick]

Okay. Explain how

How are you going to force people to explain when you don't?

[MOMOMEN]

jesus fucking christ

[Randomnamechange]

ok so my pc decided to break down. i am more or less caught up now, any questions?
i wont be long posting for a little bit while fixing my pc

[Randomnamechange]

oxy, sando
momonen, the worst, CJ
NM, Pintu, pisskop
Ico, nm, mutant
alonzo

reads atm

[pisskop]

Im town.

And finally forced to read. Im gonna not read the middle of the game. Tips and hints?

[Oxy]

oxy, sando
momonen, the worst, CJ
NM, Pintu, pisskop
Ico, nm, mutant
alonzo

reads atm

Where did you actually mean to put NM, and what was the train of thought that led to him being mentioned twice? I'll take as much detail on part two as you'll give me.

[pisskop]

Spoiler: page 40-44

Are you saying that if I vote Icon, you will vote Icon?

What is this whole thing?

You would be okay putting it at L-1 with NM having just signaled with his vote?

Oh shit... No, I wouldn't. I would, however, be comfortable placing intent to hammer if you and not_mafia were on the wagon.

ummmmm

maybe post something game advancing instead of lurking and/or taking days to catch up an hours worth of trading

maybe is going to take me longer than expected to catch up in a game that doubles in length in the space of a day. i see why people dont like your posting style.

#def_not_going_to_read

Like seriously, are you 3 really voting me because I evaluated my reads of the people wagoning someone in my null pile but didn't count the number of people on said wagon?

Like seriously you're going to defend yourself instead of attack or admit your flaws?

Oh lol. The pressure of restating his vote certainly worked though.

Is this town unsettled?

I don't like how quickly all of the sudden Mutant is getting these votes. Seem like a Scum fabricated wagon to me.

hmmm? It seems kind of legit, considering I walked into idkwhat.

whaddup pk

\o
Hi spammer without an avi!

pisskop replaces Korina, effective upon PM confirmation of role and alignment.

pisskop, you did this, your replacement is effective

I . . . didn't see this lol.

Greetings PK

Hi you.

IDK who exactly the Scum are on the wagon. That's not what I am claiming. I am claiming that it's very possible that this is an Scum produced wagon due to Mutant getting so many votes in such a short time. I am claiming there is a great lack of resistance on the Mutant wagon so that might indicate he is Town.

Do you not understand this or something?

This is kind of town. I'd argue against it, but it was 3-4 votes in as many posts. I would wager that it could be scum saving another scum, or trying for creds.

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

ummm no they can. What they need to do is point out which one of the sudden wagoneers is scummy for it, and which ones are associations. They dont need to do wagon comp, though they should. Demanding they produce concrete results is just another way of defending a victim. Saying 'scum on wagonz' is too vague. Saying 'you need to show me which' is too concise. The burden of proof is in the middle.

Ceej -- in your words, how do you consider this read list ugly?

Yes

Ok I get why it's an ugly readlist, and this isn't just for you but all voters of mutant if they want to use the readlist as evidence:
Why is it scummy?
What are the implications of it being scummy, is he implicating partners do you think?

Holy dingleberries, this is complex questioning. I'd settle for people actually just talking about each other.

it's scummy because his likely partner is low enough to be considered bussing but not low enough to be actually for the lynch. it's scummy because the two easiest mislynches in the game are his bottom. it's scummy because me and nm are null when at least one of us is clearly town. it's scummy because it looks like devle has tmi reads on oxy and sando. it's scummy because alonso and the worst are also way too high for what they've done.

don't get me started on the bad tone and overarticulation of literally everything by devle.

ewwww This is blanket. And if the mislynhes are easy, why aren't they dead? Scum often hard-bus each other, or did in my day. And scum often conf each other. This reeks of agendaism.

You should judge me based on the content I create rather than me reads. Otherwise, I'd like to know why I am bad? I've maintained about a 50% win rate as Town on this site for a long time, so please tell me why I am bad.

Actually, your intentions are more important than your content. Reads are content, but basing reads on people based on their on reads is judging them based on ability or judgement. And a joke.

probably 85% of the time in fact.

LE LUL

His whole post is "Look at how I'm analyzing the wagon to decide if it's likely a good wagon or not. Isn't that townie?" but he couldn't have actually analyzed the wagon because then he would know who and how many votes were on there.

And he says this is normal for him

but for whom is faking wagon analysis a town tell?

omg you're melt-in-my-mouth town

Why is any of your scumreads more than 25% likely to be right?

ummm because scum is comprised 25% to 33% of the playerlist? duh

and because the whole idea of skill is the ability to filter the odds and make better odds. What a bad use of logic.

[pisskop]

VOTE: unvote

Townbloc is

[pisskop]
[oxycotton]
[pinto]