Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Quick]

i dont really get townreads on grey, even if my read there is mellowing towards null atm.
hes focusing on a lot of things that dont have much to do with scumhunting which feels like it could really easily be a scum strategy from him to generate content.

all of tnhead's scumreads out of panoptic arent really sitting well with me.
the reasoning for the townreads is pretty comprehensive which feels better, but he could just be properly assessing why people that he knows are town are town. :')

vote: tchill

choo choo

p-edit: does it really matter? >.>

Also Scummy.

[Gorkington]

ya?

[Thor665]

As they say, NAI. You pissed him off, he got pissed off. That's genuine. It's also not alignment indicative.

You don't think that him getting legit pissed about me mocking the entire concept of his town game as performed here is alignment indicative?
Why would he get legit pissed if he was scum?

[Quick]

ya?

You talked about everything except chill and then voted him in that post.

[Gorkington]

i feel like i just need to get off my chest that i feel really irritated that people are reading me badly and not even trying to engage me on their read in any kind of meaningful way.
which is probably hypocritical given my play earlier in this game but man it just feels like people are throwing reads at individual posts without any actual intention of trying to figure out if im actually scum in the process.

im going to make an active effort to not be a dick again this game.
so, if the hesitation on actually engaging me is that i might be a shithead about it, im going to try to be better, so go for it.
im gonna probably be dropping a lot of content this coming weekend if the cycle lasts that long.

better angles to approach me if you think im scum are to just ask me to do things.
or to poke me about the specifics of things ive done in some kind of substantive way.

if i keep getting "you are scum" posts im most likely just going to be distracted with wanting to call them annoying and i can do better things with my time in this game.
i would much rather get sorted now.

p-edit: theres a wagon on tchill?

[Quick]

p-edit: theres a wagon on tchill?

Exactly?

[Gorkington]

like, i think it should be clear at this point that actively pushing for a counterwagon when tchill is unsorted is going to derail the momentum of the game.
the best use for my vote is putting it on the main wagon unless im townreading tchill, which im not.

i dont understand what you think i should be doing right now otherwise?
especially since ive made it clear i dont have much time for actively reading this game this week?

[Gorkington]

can you talk about why youre taking stances on the wagon instead of the player?

[Hopkirk]

I kind of agreed with 53 at the time so I liked it.

Why was this so hard for you?

Probably because I didn't like it

enough

that it was immediately memorable 800 posts later.

It’d be funny if the anti-claiming mech is that Mulch told us there was an anti-claiming mech. The knowledge there’s an anti-claiming mech in of itself makes claiming dangerous.

I don't understand why you're speculating about this?

Because it's fun and I can't see any true negative outcomes.

Admittedly self centric, but It's painfully obvious there's a potential wagon hanging over me right now and I get the feeling Thor's waiting for it.

I'm waiting for a wagon that had very minor support and that I've been slowly pushing all the while softly gaining it town support by making people notice that you're kinda scummy?
Yeah, that's true.
Pretty sure it's called good wagon building play.

His early townreads (Torn/Quick/BB) don't add anything since they're common.
His defence of Quick was after the quick wagon played its course.
His scum leans on me/Screen don't add anything.

What did you expect/want my reads to add outside of me stating my reads?

-only gives reads on people Torn asked about and adds utterly nothing to any of the reads.

Are you complaining that I answered a question about reads, or complaining that I didn't volunteer more?
The former is silly.
The latter is only slightly less silly, because you could always ask me for reads yourself if you think it's an issue and *then* call me out if I don't give them.

-Slight reasoning given on Screen but doesn't actually move forward to vote screen. Could have potentially moved things forward but hung on me (non wagon that could bloom) instead for unclear reasons.

What do you think the reasons are, since you're implying it's scummy?

1080- An iffy reasoning to not vote Brian that doesn't really say anything about

Brian

You're right, it said something about *Thor*.

I'll admit I don't know his town meta, but it feels like he's added nothing and he's waiting for something. I don't really say any original thought/effort/proactiveness there.

I find the idea I haven't advanced original thoughts to be laughable and easily disproved - that said, presuming we accept this as true - why is my brand of lack of originality different and more questionable than other brands?
Because I feel like the legit answer is 'Because Thor is voting me" which is...silly.

-Good wagon building involves actually pushing the wagon/me. You've been voteparking without generating content that makes a wagon form.
-On 1136: given my vote justification is very clearly 'you aren't contributing anything new', it's pretty obvious my problem with you only given reads when directly asked is that it's an example of you not contributing anything new. The 'case' is that you've been reactive and done nothing proactive (as of it).
-Your brand of unoriginality is worse because a.) as you've said, yeah because you're on me. That makes it stand out more to me, and b.) nothing you've said has sparked me as having town POV/thought process.

[Quick]

like, i think it should be clear at this point that actively pushing for a counterwagon when tchill is unsorted is going to derail the momentum of the game.
the best use for my vote is putting it on the main wagon unless im townreading tchill, which im not.

Why?

i dont understand what you think i should be doing right now otherwise?
especially since ive made it clear i dont have much time for actively reading this game this week?

Def not just jumping on the biggest BW with a naked vote like that is magically going to do something

@Thor, Why was Gork Town for that post?

[GreyICE]

As they say, NAI. You pissed him off, he got pissed off. That's genuine. It's also not alignment indicative.

You don't think that him getting legit pissed about me mocking the entire concept of his town game as performed here is alignment indicative?
Why would he get legit pissed if he was scum?

1) I wish you'd respond to the entire post, this chopping posts to bits and responding to a small part makes me not want to talk to you
2) Yes, responding angrily to mockery is NAI. It should not be hard to figure out why.

[Quick]

can you talk about why youre taking stances on the wagon instead of the player?

I'm not taking a stance on the wagon. Whether Chill flips Town or Scum here you look bad both ways. If Chill is Town, it's opportunistic, if he is Scum, it's a buss without reasoning attached.

[Quick]

As they say, NAI. You pissed him off, he got pissed off. That's genuine. It's also not alignment indicative.

You don't think that him getting legit pissed about me mocking the entire concept of his town game as performed here is alignment indicative?
Why would he get legit pissed if he was scum?

1) I wish you'd respond to the entire post, this chopping posts to bits and responding to a small part makes me not want to talk to you
2) Yes, responding angrily to mockery is NAI. It should not be hard to figure out why.

I sorta agree... I actually think where people react angrily to a push on them it makes them more often Town, but given the nature of Thor's push, I would say it's pretty NAI.

Do you know your role yet, or do you want to keep up the charade a bit longer?

[Hopkirk]

I hope Grey does sub out like he said. Not a fan of people with awful attitudes. Especially when they aren’t even pro-town. Atm he’s non-contributing vig bait at best.

Last game (Floral), Tchill insisted that he wouldn’t play as badly as he was if he was scum. Noting this and seeing if it comes up by the time I’m caught up.
-kind of in 1218 but less blatent

@Creature: Why am I not on your townlist? Asking since we just finished a game together and three other players have put me as town from meta. Do you disagree with Ausuka about my play vs my play in Floral? If so, does that affect your Ausuka read at all?

[Gorkington]

or it could be that tchill is low on content and pressure is a decent way of trying to enforce him following through on delivering that content?

youre acting like voting someone does nothing, but if i voted another player, the momentum on tchill could have staggered and then he would essentially be allowed to continue lurking if hes scum with no repercussions. its not as though its "magically" doing something, but it is reinforcing that i personally want to see content from him and until he delivers im continuing to vote him.

we could get into a big argument over whether votes actually cause pressure on players, but we're literally 8 days from deadline at this point. regardless of whether im town or scum, it shouldnt be hard to piece together that my intention isnt to lynch, but to cause pressure or to fake the intention to cause pressure. i doubt i would ever vote someone with the intent of getting a mislynch as scum at this stage of the game.

[Gorkington]

how often do you see someone get lynched 4+ days before deadline?

[Srceenplay]

in short, instead of focusing on the intent of that post, screen chose to focus on the semantics

Yes. Because that is what you do. You look behind the intent to get a feel for them.

[Brigand Vvulf]

say what

[Quick]

or it could be that tchill is low on content and pressure is a decent way of trying to enforce him following through on delivering that content?

youre acting like voting someone does nothing, but if i voted another player, the momentum on tchill could have staggered and then he would essentially be allowed to continue lurking if hes scum with no repercussions. its not as though its "magically" doing something, but it is reinforcing that i personally want to see content from him and until he delivers im continuing to vote him.

we could get into a big argument over whether votes actually cause pressure on players, but we're literally 8 days from deadline at this point. regardless of whether im town or scum, it shouldnt be hard to piece together that my intention isnt to lynch, but to cause pressure or to fake the intention to cause pressure. i doubt i would ever vote someone with the intent of getting a mislynch as scum at this stage of the game.

I can see that as a possible alternative to why you voted them, but then why didn't you state your reasoning that you have here when you originally voted them? You can see my point has merit right?

[Quick]

how often do you see someone get lynched 4+ days before deadline?

A lot?

[Hopkirk]

@Toran/Nero: please townread each other.
VOTE: Panoptican
First five Tchill votes are still nice. It gets a bit worse as it goes on.
Hey Tchill, I asked you one question and you didn’t answer it. I dislike it when people don’t answer my questions. (ok Brian)
Thor’s Screen interaction isn’t great.
I’ll sheep Chara/Elli unless it’s on a strong townread.

[GreyICE]

It's amusing to watch the high pitched whining from scum when they're convinced someone isn't playing well, and yet is on to most of their scumteam.

[Gorkington]

i said "choo choo". its basically an implication of "this is wagoning for the sake of the wagon". the follow-up question i had for tchill was asking for a timeline on his reads.

p-edit: on d1?

[Gorkington]

It gets a bit worse as it goes on.

why are you being vague instead of direct about the votes you find questionable?

[GreyICE]

Hell yeah. I've had a game where I voted three people on day 1 and my vote never left scum.

If you think it's impossible to have good reads on day 1 you might just be bad.