Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[havingfitz]

Sorry...I was mid post and going off memory. There could have been worse names to come up with

Lol, the funny thing is that's not the first time someone's called me that.

Is iiSq an alt of yours?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I did say so at the end of that game, but given that that was the only game I've played with you, I didn't think you would remember it.

[Something_Smart]

This is the game in question, for others wondering what we're talking about. I was scum with fitz under the alt iiSq5024.

[texcat]

So it's confirmed that I have piss-poor charisma, at least in this game...

I want to hear

texcat

speak more and respond to

Almost50

, but my stances/reads so far have not changed.

I don't know why anybody who's read the game would think I'm playing survivalistically.

I'm willing to speak more, but I have no idea how to respond to A50's gut read. He says that deep in his gut I'm scum, regardless of my votes. I guess he thinks I've been lurking. But he doesn't seem to remember me arguing vociferously with Sando yesterday about lynching the guilty.

I'm guessing that A50 is really our last doc. I'm not sure why he's still alive, but the fact that he is still alive makes me think that scum is playing WIFOM with their kills. It's one of the reasons I'm a little wary of Taly's NK analysis.

I still prefer to lynch Fitz over KopHerald. The only case on KopHerald is Taly's NK analysis and my POE. Neither are very good cases imo. KopHerald has made a case on Fitz (1038 1093, for starters).

[havingfitz]

KopHerald has made a case on Fitz (1038 1093, for starters

Those aren't cases....they're piss poor whiney isos which point out no AI material that I can see. It comes off as policy-esque due to low posting and v/la's more than anything scummy.

[Kopherald]

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO.

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Sorry, 964 has the reads of not mafia goons on a few people. I missed it because he still said they could all be SK.

-Brass

[havingfitz]

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO

I vote players I suspect. I.e. votes are reads. I give a read on Shad (55) and Jimmy (775). And you (499).

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

While this is technically true...it's a bit misreppish as the people I have near the end of my lists equate to town reads.

I'm travelling the rest of today so essentially ~v/la soon.

I'm tired of Brass' bravado and the hydra's play in general.

VOTE: Kopherald

[Kopherald]

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO

I vote players I suspect. I.e. votes are reads. I give a read on Shad (55) and Jimmy (775). And you (499).

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

While this is technically true...it's a bit misreppish as the people I have near the end of my lists equate to town reads.

I'm travelling the rest of today so essentially ~v/la soon.

I'm tired of Brass' bravado and the hydra's play in general.

VOTE: Kopherald

To make it easier for those trying to follow the supposed reads of Fitz.

55 "His lone post pings me as well." That's not a read.

775 "Lean town on Shad" Okay 1 semi-read, no reasoning.

499 is a vote, not a read, like at all, I mean, there is no way to even frame this as a read.

Reads involve some reasoning, a few arguments. Even the "Lean town on Shad" has no apparent reason to it, if there was a reason, fitz certainly hasn't provided it.

As to people near the end equating to town reads, how the fuck am I supposed to know that? He never said that. Plus, it's a weird thing to do. I don't see anyone else saying "Well, I think A50 could be town, but he's also my last choice for SK." or anything like that.

I don't see what anyone is seeing from this slot that may indicate any attempts to gamesolve, no gamesolving is a scum tell.

-Brass

[Taly]

I'm seriously debating on going VLA for 3 days so I won't start screaming in-thread.

This is not a threat, I'm genuinely annoyed at Mafia in general, and in real life. I know this is not good for the game or for the towns wincon.

1)

I don't agree that people are minimizing my push on

Kopherald

as solely based on NKA. It's also based on an associative toward

Profii

, VCA analsysis, my SK-guess on

havingfits

, how people have reacted to claims, and the fact that I feel like these group of people:

{Ausuka, Almost50, Shadpearl, Something_Smart, texcat}

- are more likely town in my eyes. Yes, I am open to suspecting

texcat

, and broadening my view if I'm so horribly wrong; but if we lynch correctly today, town has 2 more lynch opportunities and more time to discuss who's who AFTER a flip, where we have more information.

Kopherald

, please don't tell me to fuck off. I cannot tell you how much that pinges me, and how much I've had scum in the past give me such a similar response.

Havingfitz

, you keep going VLA so much after making very little impassioned pushes/votes, and it feels like you wait until someone's going to be wagoned/potentially-lynched before you throw a vote down...

At this point,

havingfitz

and

Kopherald

feel like scum to me just based on their responses.

But you know.... I know I'm just going to be told:

"

Taly's

stuck in conf-bias"
"

Taly's

case has flaws"
"

Taly

could be -insert any possible alignment here-"

So I'm just reserving judgement until after I have a clearer head, and probably do some more ISO-digging...

2)

I don't like that we have 3 people being voted on; there's only 2 scum left.

3)

I feel like I'm 1 of maybe, ONLY HALF the playerlist right now, that is actually making a stance and putting up a case.

Frustrates me more because almost every case I've made in this game have been blown off.

4)

Something_Smart

, you didn't read most of the game? Please fix that. Or at least ask questions.

~~~

I'll add more to my case on

Kopherald and/or havingfitz

when I can think clearly and won't drag town down with in text walls of emotion.

Coupled with exams, life events, and group activities... I'm exhausted.

[Almost50]

@Taly: I now what you mean when you say you're annoyed at Mafia. Here's something I sometime do (just sometimes): Type your response in the most offensive form you can. Let all your emotions show. Use obscene vulgarity. When you're done.. reared it.. then delete it. Trust me, it works.

[texcat]

Shadpearl and Something,
Are yall planning on voting?

[Something_Smart]

When I see fit.

I want to have some back-and-forth with Taly to get a better insight into the reasons for his reads, but I also want to give him some space.

[Something_Smart]

1038 and 1093 are pretty weak cases, in my opinion. They seem to be mostly cherry picking quotes and simply describing stuff that Fitz does. Why do you find them so compelling?

[texcat]

I don't think I'd characterize them as compellling. I just think they make a better case than Taly's NKA. (And I can hear Taly gnashing his teeth from way over here at my description of his case.)

[Something_Smart]

Do you have any of your own reasons for scumreading fitz?

[davesaz]

Prodding Shadpearl and Ausuka

[Ausuka]

i have been prodded!

my opinion hasn't changed since my last post and to be honest I doubt it's going to.

[Taly]

Are people reading the thread before they post?

[Taly]

Apparent not.

[Taly]

@Taly: I now what you mean when you say you're annoyed at Mafia. Here's something I sometime do (just sometimes): Type your response in the most offensive form you can. Let all your emotions show. Use obscene vulgarity. When you're done.. reared it.. then delete it. Trust me, it works.

Ehhh... I feel a little bit better.

When I see fit.

I want to have some back-and-forth with Taly to get a better insight into the reasons for his reads, but I also want to give him some space.

Give me a line of questions, that is easier for me to compile a list of thoughts and give you my thinking better.

I don't think I'd characterize them as compellling. I just think they make a better case than Taly's NKA. (And I can hear Taly gnashing his teeth from way over here at my description of his case.)

*points to 1384, and most of my posts this dayphase beyond to iterate how "NKA" is not an accurate description of my full thoughts.

Claps hands to avoid rolling eyes because I haven't just been talking about a case on Kopherald*

i have been prodded!

my opinion hasn't changed since my last post and to be honest I doubt it's going to.

What about your opinions of

texcat

and

havingfitz

?

[texcat]

I give up. We can lynch Fitz tomorrow.

VOTE: KopHerald

I believe that's L-1.

[Something_Smart]

Give me a line of questions, that is easier for me to compile a list of thoughts and give you my thinking better.

Okay.
What are some quotes from Kopherald that make you think they are likely scum?
Why are those quotes more likely to come from scum?
What are some quotes from havingfitz that make you think he is likely scum?
Why are those quotes more likely to come from scum?

[Ausuka]

havingfitz is probably more scummy than texcat.

[Something_Smart]

you keep going VLA so much after making very little impassioned pushes/votes, and it feels like you wait until someone's going to be wagoned/potentially-lynched before you throw a vote down...

Also this just caught my eye. None of this is alignment indicative.