Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Implosion Flavor just soft claimed without details. What do you think about that?

[Flavor Leaf]

Good chance I’m still just VT doing that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

err damn phone soft claimed Cop.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t soft claim cop. I soft claimed an inno. And i hard claimed it basically

[Flavor Leaf]

I at least try to work with people, even scum reads, because unlike most people, I understand my reads can be wrong. I just need to understand why or have stuff happen to figure that out.

Too many towns don’t care about that, and it costs a lot of towns victory. Working with scum reads is a great way to figure out if you are right or wrong, and you can go from that.

[Flavor Leaf]

(I believe you work with your scum reads, MOI, that’s why it came up.

[UC Voyager]

Hello all. If you havnt noticed, I am generally V/LA on the weekends.

I have still noticed some things and Will try to see if I can make an update later today.

The reasoning I am posting at the moment is so I can request that if there is a hammer, or someone says they will be VLA[, or something I might need to be aware of, please send me a PM so I don't miss somthing or make a error.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ive been trying to look at why exactly I’m being pushed, and any reason i could find can just be canceled out with an “yeah, you’re right, that happened. It’s just coming from TownMe.” And I believe a big reason for mislynches with town’s nowadays is because people don’t look things through from a town perspective, because people don’t try to actually town hunt. I have a heavy town hunting playstyle, that people find weird, but it’s inherently townie, yet people see that as inherently scummy for some reason.

I just state my thoughts.

[StefanB]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

If I had an Inno, I wouldn’t be claiming VT. I claimed VT yesterday to backtrack my PR claim so I wouldn’t get roleblocked/killed by scum.

But this is blatant rolefishing.

[StefanB]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

If I had an Inno, I wouldn’t be claiming VT. I claimed VT yesterday to backtrack my PR claim so I wouldn’t get roleblocked/killed by scum.

But this is blatant rolefishing.

Nope, not when someone claims VT and an INO on the same page. Then its just addresing the elefant in the room.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

If I had an Inno, I wouldn’t be claiming VT. I claimed VT yesterday to backtrack my PR claim so I wouldn’t get roleblocked/killed by scum.

But this is blatant rolefishing.

Nope, not when someone claims VT and an INO on the same page. Then its just addresing the elefant in the room.

Fair enough.

I’m not VT, though, but it’s well known that I claim a lot of different things as town, so me doing this messes with scum’s minds.

I’ll give a hint to my inno, so at least someone will be able to pass on my inno if I die.

Lanky Kong, from the N64 game, DK64.

[Saudade]

Just die, man

[implosion]

All of this @MoI. Also others but particularly MoI.

Re: 1032. Meh. I see the line of logic but I don't buy it being a strong tell. There are things that scum have to go "out of their way" to do, and this is one of them, but it's something that I think scum at basically anything other than a really low level of play will do sometimes. I don't see why scum-CoA with Erika as a partner would be particularly loathe to post those interactions because I don't think they're the kinds of interactions that are likely to be scrutinized in the way you're describing. They're the kinds of interactions that scum has toward town to generically blend in, and has toward scumbuddies sometimes because they have to do similar things to scum as they are doing to town.

In particular, by that point in the game from CoA, she has reached out to Keely, Gamma, Erika and Saudade. And I think your characterization of her interactions with Erika as being "to discuss reads and share information" loosely applies to all of those interactions, and I don't think it's particularly unlikely that CoA as scum will have picked out a scumbuddy to interact with in that way by then. Or at least, I don't see what you're seeing that makes her interactions with erika more significant.

Basically, I don't think that it's something that scum avoids doing when they're in that mode of interacting with a bunch of players. I think there's solid chances that they'll ignore scumbuddies in that mode, but also solid chances that they'll intentionally throw one in there, similar to the old tell that if flipped scum lists 4-6 names in a post there's probably scum in there.

Flavor's play right now is all different kinds of gross. In terms of determining his alignment, I honestly just don't see a reason to read into the softclaim either way, at least not on its own without context since it's the kind of stupid gamethrowing shit that I could see him pulling as either alignment. Like this:

Ive been trying to look at why exactly I’m being pushed, and any reason i could find can just be canceled out with an “yeah, you’re right, that happened. It’s just coming from TownMe.”

is really fucking stupid, and kinda frustrating, but is ultimately mostly accurate I think. I'm not sure what to think right now of the reasons I scumread flavor earlier. The dumb half-softclaim inno makes me think scum a little, though. It's definitely the kind of thing that would come from a player who played like he did in nsg's normal and it has more objective utility as scum than as town because it lets him float value without actually doing anything in practice.

I need to sit on thoughts on him for a bit.

[implosion]

I also do really want to see what Hiraki has to say here.

[implosion]

I also am very much tossing around the idea of whether or not I'm just horribly misreading stefan and yeah I don't feel great about my reads right now ^_^

I still feel good about moi/gi being town though, and saudade and gamma.

[Flavor Leaf]

So basically the exact same reads as me minus the Piplup scum read.

Wait, you’re voting Pip. Nevermind. Same exact reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Usually when people are calling my play gross, it’s a town tell. I wish Mulch would come into this game, and see how obvtown I am.

[Flavor Leaf]

Or my Eddie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have an extremely easy time as scum when I play with a lot of players like the ones here, and I have a terrible time as town because people can’t comprehend certain things and only look a thing black and white. Mafia’s fluid, yo.

This being said, I actually do think players like MOI and Implosion are rather strong town, who I’d deal with early as scum. Never seen MOI’s scum game, but hopefully I will one day.

[Flavor Leaf]

With Implosion, I still think there’s some black and White thinking there, but he’s at least able to realize that.

Basically, Implosion comes off as a grumpy old grandpa.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m actually probably gonna replace. I feel that level of toxicity coming.

[Flavor Leaf]

I heated myself up moreso than any of you guys.

To be fair, Saudade should know that, as town, and when I’m being hard pushed like this for seemingly no reason, I can call out my town reads on said people still. He was scum in a game where the exact same thing happened.

I just think he’s NewbTown, though who won a scum game recently, so big headed.

GreyIce is just playing poor town, but I generally like GreyIce’s playstyle, and they make good points in between their tunneling.

Piplup is super scummy, and the way Erika was talking made it seem like they didn’t want to play a scum game with “normal queue players” even though I wouldn’t call at least 9 of the players here as Normal Queue players.

[Flavor Leaf]

Imma just spout any thoughts I have out, because what else am I gonna do.

People don’t listen to their scum reads anyways because they auto assume they’re right with no facts to back them up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Implosion is town because of agenda.
MOI stalls a lot when he doesn’t have to, so he isn’t pushing scum agenda.
Saudade in the last scum game, he found ways to go onto other wagons and make sense of it, so his tunneling looks more like newbtown than scum to me.