Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Gorkington]

is there a reason that youre trying to convince hopkirk that hes obviously scum instead of the rest of us?

[Gorkington]

like, i get im being smarmy here, but you can probably be more productive here than just pointing at hopkirk and saying "this is scum", and instead try to make something thats palatable for the rest of the game if youre town here and you actually feel confident about hopkirk being scum?

[Hopkirk]

Thawtunately you're getting iced anyway. You're just sad town's going to be the winter. If you've got any hope of not being lynched you should let it go. There's absolutely zero reason you won't be. Snow chance at all. You're ice-olated here, nobody's going to accept the un-brrr-lievable that you're town. We can take a scumread on you all the way to the snow bank. Nero was right we should have done you frost. Don't really plan on responding to you, I plan on giving you the cold shoulder. I'm cold to your pleas for mercy. It's the end of the ice age. Enjoying the winter punderland?

[GreyICE]

Hopkirk doesn't care who he lynches

You can see two trends from Hopkirk's early game - he doesn't care who gets lynched, and he gets very angry if someone scumreads him. For instance, here's some of his reads:

Are there any people here I shouldn't townread: Panoptican, Brigand, Brian, Centipede, Creature, Cheeky

@Ausuka: how do you feel about large games?

I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)

Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh

Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, Centipede

I mean note that it's practically reversed from his initial list, with no real thought. In point of fact Centipede veers between the scum pile and hard town, not based on any interactions Hopkirk has with him, but just with how strong the lynch wagon was blowing. Here's centipede's wagon:

Centipede Syndrome(6)

~ CheekyTeeky(51), Creature(71), Gorkington(41), Quick(155), Tchill13(2), Hopkirk(51)

You can clearly see him hopping on here. Yet later he was convinced to vote for Maria late based on a town read on Centipede? Lets see just how true that is:

MariaR(6) ~ Centipede Syndrome(161), CheekyTeeky(107), Creature(152), Tchill13(70), Brian Skies(94), Gorkington(151)

MariaR(7) ~ Centipede Syndrome(180), Brian Skies(101), Gorkington(190), Spiffeh(112), Creature(238), Brigand Vvulf(69), Tchill13(92)

MariaR(9) ~ Centipede Syndrome(210), Brian Skies(104), Gorkington(180), Spiffeh(100), Brigand Vvulf(73), Tchill13(90), CheekyTeeky(127), Quick(315), Hopkirk(144)

Now we finally see a Hopkirk on, late enough to hurt. And his interaction? Try to support Maria's claim and focus on it. On the other hand, we're quite happy to see him around here:

Panopticon (4)- Spiffeh, Brigand Vvulf, CheekyTeeky, Hopkirk

Panopticon is falling apart so he hops on my wagon, with room to audible onto Screenplay.

This guy is transparently scum, and he's scum with Maria

[Hopkirk]

People are going to think this was scumtheater from the start aren't they.

[Hopkirk]

I stopped pushing Centipede on I think the first game day.
Centi was never a top scumread, as per lack of me pushing.
I reevaluated on MariaR.
There's much more credible ways to bus than unvoting after a claim then revoting.
I've been saying for about 2000 posts you/Pan are my top scumreads. You're ignoring that when you say I just hopped onto you there because Pan is falling apart. There's multiple posts where I say you're number 2 for me.

[GreyICE]

The second flavor of scumread from Hopkirk is people who scumread him. He's remarkably paranoid about people trying to lynch him, and very concerned that there's pressure building up on him - far more concerned then he ever is about townies. You can see some examples of his hypersensitivity:

Don't really get this vote.
1.) please explain where you think I'm placating in a mixture of your own words and my words (quotes of how). Most interested in why I'd push someone to say they scumread me, then 'placate' them when they aren't making the read independently.
2.) I explained my read on you and my intention and sort of answered that question. What didn't you like with my explination?
Why sketchy on Ausuka/Cheeky?

1) Because your accusations on Nero and I weren't that developed and the instant we both pushed back and engaged you, you backed off and just said we were town (or in my case just indicated that you thought I was). This is what I mean by poking and running away.
2) When did you explain your read on me? All I got from you was 'this is the reaction I was expecting so it wasn't entirely useless' which neither explains your original read of me (or my post) nor does it answer my original question of why you thought Brigand's post was good.

1.) Why does scum me push people then 'back off'? What do I gain there? Think about actual scum motivation before saying it's scummy since scum have no incentive to do that. You're scumreading style rather than motive.
Why can't town me like responses? Why do I not move on to other people when I'm happy with what I have?

2.) The initial engagement wasn't leading anywhere. Not sure why you think it's scummy to try and make it something meaningful.

Admittedly self centric, but It's painfully obvious there's a potential wagon hanging over me right now and I get the feeling Thor's waiting for it.

He called his initial vote of me a sheep.
His early townreads (Torn/Quick/BB) don't add anything since they're common.
His defence of Quick was after the quick wagon played its course.
His scum leans on me/Screen don't add anything.

661
-he's now got me as more scummy without explaining. Ignored a request to explain.
-only gives reads on people Torn asked about and adds utterly nothing to any of the reads.
-Slight reasoning given on Screen but doesn't actually move forward to vote screen. Could have potentially moved things forward but hung on me (non wagon that could bloom) instead for unclear reasons.

737- Doesn't add anything to Spiffeh's Pan read. Urges a move to me again without giving any reason (hence no reason to expect anyone to move, hence no forward momentum from Thor).

1080- An iffy reasoning to not vote Brian that doesn't really say anything about

Brian

1082- No original thoughts.


I'll admit I don't know his town meta, but it feels like he's added nothing and he's waiting for something. I don't really say any original thought/effort/proactiveness there.
I think I remember hearing Thor's name in a list of really good players back in like 2014 when I was new and while I don't know how he plays town, this isn't what I'd expect.

-Wagon energy is building on me because assorted (mostly scummy) people are saying they don't like me but not voting me. You aren't doing anything to push it. Like I said, it feels like you're waiting and hoping it builds from the undercurrent.
-I was claiming you did both from the start. As of the iso i did, you had next to noghting new.
-If you think I'm reactive you aren't reading me. Especially when you're trying to say you aren't. Although people generally find how I look at stuff strange and you might want to do some meta sometime if your problem is with my thinking style.

And of course his response to me.

Hell, he even says everyone who scumreads him is "scummy"

[GreyICE]

I mean look at his response here. He knows even if he lynches me that for a fact this will look awful for him tomorrow.

It looks awful for him today too.

[GreyICE]

I stopped pushing Centipede on I think the first game day.
Centi was never a top scumread, as per lack of me pushing.
I reevaluated on MariaR.
There's much more credible ways to bus than unvoting after a claim then revoting.
I've been saying for about 2000 posts you/Pan are my top scumreads. You're ignoring that when you say I just hopped onto you there because Pan is falling apart. There's multiple posts where I say you're number 2 for me.

Would this be post #2572 where these were your top scumreads:

Pan/Bins/MariaR- to lynch
The wost/Grey- to reread and sort
Thor/Centipede/Spiffeh- to sort post d1

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Nero Cain]

Nero was right we should have done you frost.

As much as this feeds my ego I think lynching Maria was a good call. May have not gotten Grey if we hadn't lynched Maria.

[Hopkirk]

This is wrong because

: Although I townread plenty of people who don't scumread me, remember Brian/Nero at the start? Nero is near the top of my townpool, Brian is solid.

Even if it was accurate then it would be wrong because]/b]: I take it you aren't aware of my meta if you think disliking people who scumread me is a scumtell. Plenty of games will show that. Funnily enough, Winter Wonderland is a good example of that. Scumread Kat/HeM much of early game, partly due to their perspective of me, then correctly adjust the reads as it goes on.

[Hopkirk]

Nero was right we should have done you frost.

As much as this feeds my ego I think lynching Maria was a good call. May have not gotten Grey if we hadn't lynched Maria.

I mean before Pan. You went on Pan, I said Grey was my 2nd choice and voted Pan.

[Hopkirk]

This is wrong because

: Although I townread plenty of people who don't scumread me, remember Brian/Nero at the start? Nero is near the top of my townpool, Brian is solid.

Even if it was accurate then it would be wrong because]/b]: I take it you aren't aware of my meta if you think disliking people who scumread me is a scumtell. Plenty of games will show that. Funnily enough, Winter Wonderland is a good example of that. Scumread Kat/HeM much of early game, partly due to their perspective of me, then correctly adjust the reads as it goes on.

this is @'And of course his response to me. Hell, he even says everyone who scumreads him is "scummy"'

[Hopkirk]

Lets vote Pan and/or Grey.

Lynch Pan, daykill Grey tomorrow.

Screen is townie and the wagon composition there is awful.
Tchill is a worse wagon.
Grey is a fine wagon.

This was very much a sideways swapout for the Quick slot.

Screen is townie and the wagon composition there is awful.
Tchill is a worse wagon.
Grey is a fine wagon.

I agree Tchill is a poor wagon at this stage - what's the beef with the Srceen wagon comp? It looks fine as long as you ignore the random and unsupported Grey=scum concept.

Grey/Pan scum and Thor possible scum.
Counterwagon to Pan wagon.
I like Screen's tone. Hang on a minute here.

[Hopkirk]

Those four posts (I think all are when Pan is leading wagon and you have 2-3 votes) show very clearly you're in my top two.
There's earlier posts where I say I heavily scumread you, but those are the only post MariaR lynch.

[Hopkirk]

Managing to miss those is just... not even bad. It's just sad.

[Gorkington]

@grey

:
i) how often do you get mislynched in general?
ii) whats the difference between me getting mad at the people pushing me and hopkirk getting mad at the people pushing him?

[GreyICE]

See Hopkirk is operating at an enormous disadvantage here. If we lynch him, then everything I'm saying looks even worse for him. That's why he's trying hard to make my read look bad when he has what, all of two votes on him? While I just want his red flip, and don't care how I get it.

[GreyICE]

@grey

:
i) how often do you get mislynched in general?
ii) whats the difference between me getting mad at the people pushing me and hopkirk getting mad at the people pushing him?

1) never or day 1. Scum always shoot me.
2) you know you're being a dumbass. Hopkirk is scum.

[Gorkington]

can you give me 2-3 games where youve been mislynched on d1 before?

[Brian Skies]

Screen is townie and the wagon composition there is awful.
Tchill is a worse wagon.
Grey is a fine wagon.

I was just reminded that Hopkirk openly decried the Srceen wagon, which is another reason I've been pushing him on that read.

I don't like Hop pushing srceenplay for the resistance thing and demanding for a response in his next post before jumping onto the Grey wagon. I think if he seriously had somewhere to go with that, he wouldn't have been so eager to push Grey closer to a lynch. Idk, it kinda feels like a slimy setup post to justify his later Grey vote (in that Grey has also claimed to not look at his role, except these are two different games and srceen isn't even claiming to have done that this game, so...?).

I can sort of see what Grey means regarding Hop and his srceen stance, but I still just want to lynch srceen. We can add rolefishing to the list of crimes, that most of you probably didn't even notice because most of you are avoiding or ignoring him this game.

[Chickadee]

@Gork, Can you present me with 2-3 town games where you asked for people to present so much self meta?

Please do your own dives for out of game information.

[Chickadee]

Also, never lynching hopkirk, for the puns.

[Gorkington]

lol.
grey knows what games hes talking about better than i do. if he has a track record of getting lynched d1, id like to take a look at them and i doubt its that much effort for him to recall examples.
but okay chick lets make the most pointlessly aggressive post deriding someone trying to figure shit out.

[Gorkington]

hey guys im chickadee and my idea of contributing to the gamestate is shitting on it actively.
:V