Micro 798 - Splatoon Mafia - Game Over

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka: Thank you. So it was

only

Voyc and not "people" that I presumably trued to "make look less townie". Now let's go back to how you

know

she's town as opposed to "think" she is. And why does it make me scum if I won't yield to your will of determining who is town and who is not for weak sauce?

This has NOTHING to do with Voyc's alignment and it has EVERYTHING to do with you not scumhunting. Simple as. I don't know Voyc is town, but if you are indeed scum like I suspect, that makes her town for almost certain, yes.

[Gamma Emerald]

That line was there because there could be a plurality mechanic introduced and I want it to be clear how it would function. Everyone assuming Mylo was lynched was an action that I am not responsible for.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

but if you are indeed scum like I suspect, that makes her town for almost certain

Nice phrasing, but I'm almost certain when I do flip town that you'd still assert my play was awful and that she is still town for you. I was just trying to see how Ausuka plays in general for future reference. If you're town your reads are to be ignored, and if scum then you likely are defending a partner.

[Ausuka]

yes, if you're town, your not claiming was god-awful play and borderline gamethrowing. that has nothing to with anything to do with Voyc, and you jumping to conclusions about my character is totally unjustified. But I guess you're just scum here and it doesn't matter.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

No intent was stated and nobody asked me to claim, but that's beside the point. The point is if I claim I will be shot at night anyway, so what good is it for me to claim? Suffice it to say I'm fucking Macho-something. I cannot be protected at night, so it gives me the satisfaction to punish the stupid townies who followed your case on me to know they killed me and not the scum NK.

FTR, in my first game on MS I was also lynched on D1, and I didn't get to claim. I was the Town Gunsmith.

In my previous scum game I endgamed with relative ease.

In the third game I was the Town Doctor and I was pushed on D2 so fake claimed, got another townie lynched and got lynched myself on D3.

This is my 5th game and I can't talk about the 4th yet, but I think you can see the difference between my town and my scum games play skimming these 3 games.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Btw, the 3rd game is what go me to be skeptical of my own reads and not wanting to push anything hard nor defending anyone hard.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And my reads didn't get any better in the 4th game either, I just don't push my reads that hard anymore and let the whole group decide the day lynch while I rely on my night action, if any.

[Ausuka]

Please just out your role if you're town. There is literally no benefit to not doing so.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Macho Non-Consecutive Watcher

[Ausuka]

Claim: Marie, Town 2-shot Watcher

Glad to see my original read was correct. Tbh, you kinda gave me doubts towards the end

[Ausuka]

It would have been better if we lynched jjd without a claim but I think town swings somewhere else if we don't get a CC and that this was the right play. idk.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Your CC isn't really a CC considering this mod's meta. Check this game out.

P.S. Be sure to check the flips and role cards. Nero and Fuzzy in particular. I think you'll find them interesting.

But anyway, there's no time for us to even consider another lynch, and besides if I live I'm the NK and you won't get any info/results from me, so I think I'm the best lynch option how things are.

[Ausuka]

Gamma isn't SS???

[Ausuka]

and, I mean, that's still not the same thing at all. their roles in that game were different in many ways.

But w/e. If you're town, I'll gladly admit I really fucked up here, but I don't think you are.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK, try this one

He had a BP, a JK, a JOAT with a Doctor shot, a backup JOAt all along with a Hider, all in a 13 players game.

The point is Gamma is used to setups with overlapping PRs. whether he plays or moderates them. This is a fact I know about him.

[Voyc]

@Judge what's your flavor?

[Vartsun]

What was the point of 225, then?

Kindly read my follow up post. I demonstrated that there were others who reached L-2 before and after Voyc. My problem is with treating them differently. "No resistance" could very well be applied to my slot as well as it got to L-2 on page one. Not even everybody had posted by then, so if Voyc's was a no resistance wagon then so was HS' and a couple more.

Oh fuck. I meant 229

What wagons do you think are being treated differently?

Question: Why are you townreading them for producing townreads when the townreads are all really meh?

Because unlike half of the playerlist at the moment,

Mylo's

also focused on figuring out who is town.

I guess talk to me more about Doom? Mainly what I'm getting from you is that you think that he's being disingenuous and hedging his bets by voting one person but leaving room to vote other people?

Is this scum-indicative for you?

Yeah, I think it's more likely coming from scum. I can see town trying to look at all possibilities; but

doomfeathers'

approach does not strike me as having that motive.

What town looks at their reads and says:

"Wagons are good."
"Let's lynch this person due to a policy lynch, even though I'm not going to elaborate on my scumreads or let me assessments over my wagons be known."
"These other people are scum."
"But I'm going to wagon this person."
"And this person responding to me is scum, but I'm not going to explain why other than make an associative on them, with the person I'm wagoning."

That's how I'm seeing

doomfeathers

right now.

You said varsoon disagress - what does he think about Doom?

I feel like doom's kinda happy to wagon whoever, if that makes sense?

It makes total sense, and that's why I think

doomfeathers'

pushes are more likely scum-motivated. It's good to wagon and gauge for information, but that's not consistent with who he thinks is scum, who is in his lynchpool, who he thinks warrants pressure, and what he thinks about certain wagons.

Also,

Varsoon's

busy, so I haven't been able to speak to him. :/

I feel like you're overly focused on this and that this convo isn't directly relevant to solving the game.

I made a point. Vartsun asked about it. I responded. If nobody asked I would not have been discussing it over and over again. Stop bringing it up and I will stop talking about it.

This is a weak dodge.

As for reads, it's so funny you should ask me for mine when you yourself say everyone is scummy. I do not want to block anyone's lynch, but I also don't have a confident scum read yet. Mylo's lynch was as good as any to me.

Generally speaking my reads are bad anyway (you can go read any of my previous game. I only have 3-4 finished games anyway). When I try to be a hero it most likely backfires. I want to learn to develop my reads more reliably, so I'm going to wait and see how things go before I have a solid opinion on anyone.

P.S. The last game I played I faked a guilty on someone I was confident being scum, and they flipped town. Go figure. I'm good with game theory, but in application I still suck.

And it really doesn't help when you say something and people tell you you're wrong, and you explain and then they say "that's a lot of words to say YOU'RE WRONG" without showing you how you're being wrong.

I don't get why your thinking here... Are you suspecting

skitter30

? At least she's explaining her thought process for her reads.

Town NEEDS to start somewhere in gamesolving, and while she thinks people have done scummy things

((which I think the entire playerlist has done to a degree))

- she's willing to look beyond the surface, and I think that's town.

So yeah. Tell me your reads.

~

I'm more interested in Voyc post-flip.

~

@Ausuka: In what ways is the scumhunting (or lack of it) that you see from those slots indicative of a town mentality?

-V

Hunting for scum in an organic way is towny. I see that in nero and I saw it in lycanfire. To me, two towny players in one slot makes for a very towny slot.
I'm definitely starting to think Vartsun is town, now. They look genuine, and interested in finding scum.
I like the mylo wagon because Mylo has been consistently scummy; first in 31, which I have explained in detail already, and then in 200, where he's really fence-sitty and doesn't give strong opinions apart from on me. I think mylo is a good lynch today, in general.
However... deadline is in 21 hours, so, I have to compromise today.
VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd

I still think the scum are JJD and Mylo; JJD has been arguing a lot about how Voyc isn't as towny as people think, but not really anything relevant. I kinda like Ruby so far. My vote on voyc was based on 70, not 68; I thought voyc was at least a little scummy so I decided to hop on the wagon and see what happened. Not sure why Ruby thinks mylo is a townie, and Taly's reasoning for that is also really ??? to me. I like the skitter lynchpool of {jjd, mylo, voyc} I think; voyc popped in when she got wagoned but now isn't really doing anything again?

This post isn't nearly as big as I thought it'd end up being but, oh well.

Mylo and Skitter30

are town to me because they're focusing on acquiring townreads, and using that to also help improve their perception of the game.

I sympathize with

Mylo

as well.

Sorry guys for being useless this day phase, I just always struggle in the early stages of the game. When suspicion was on me, particularly early, I generally just freeze up and end up typing posts before immediately backspacing through them.

I... could root against my lynch here but I just get everyone's reasonings. My vote is still on a virtually RVS reason, I've made no solid town posts and my read post was terrible. I feel like not lynching me would just create problems in the future. Thankfully I'm only a vanilla townie, so we should still have most of our PR's in day 2.

My only proper reads before I die are Vartsun and Nero Cain town, and I'm suspicious of JJD and Voyc. Mostly just for the style of all of their posts, I can't see Vartsuns or Nero Cain from scum and JJD and Voyc have always seemed a bit further away from the game.

I apologise again, I'll eventually evolve into a player who is good at day 1.

UNVOTE:

You're town to me, and you're not getting lynched.

~~~

I have no clue how to read the claims at the moment, but my scumread on

JJD

has not changed, and I'm still figuring

Ausuka

out.

Varsoon's

very busy, so I'm kind of acting a bit more singular at the moment... but hopefully he'll be able to post before the deadline is reached.

By the way: Judge is at L-1... Announce this next time, Ausuka...

~ Taly

[Myloninja13]

What just happened?!

So... JJD claimed and Asuska counter-claimed. Generally, counterclaims are town so we should lynch JJD. But then why would JJD claim a common PR? But why would Asuska make it up as scum? And what if they're both trackers? But there's like 1% chance of that! But what if they're both town and Asuska just wanted to get a lynch on JJD? But why would any self-respecting town player do that? And suddenly no one wants to lynch me?

Overall, I'm inclined to think that JJD is lying scum and Asuska is truthful town, even if just for my previous scum read on JJD and my town on Asusuka. But I am very confused right now.

[doomfeathers]

so basically dredd's entire iso is just talking about how the wagon thing doesn't make ausuka town

Why is that scummy?

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving.

I can kinda see scum finding an easy mislynch in town!vartsun by pushing it as policy tbh.

For the record, I was not saying we should policy-lynch now, after Varsoon has apologized and everybody who is going to replace out already has. That'd be pointless. But we should have at least considered the option of doing so before so many people left the game. Unfortunately, I didn't think of it in time. (Again, no offense intended to Vartsun. I'm not mad or anything.)

As it is, I do think the whole fight was worth a few scumpoints. In my experience, scum are more likely to act hostile or superior and pick fights.

@Vartsun I'm not sure exactly what you're going to say about 257 in particular, but if you have revelations, feel free.

I'd want to PL Ruby b/c calling ppl wolfy is annoying as fuck to me.

I'm opposed to PLs and especially so in a 9 players game. We only have 2 mislynches and I'm not going to waste one of them on someone I'm not SRing.

Okay, that was clearly a joke.

FFS, we're less than 48 hours from a deadline, and you're continuing to push someone with low content, furthermore; I'm assuming you

STILL

scumread this slot? For reasons you haven't stated much at all? Please tell me I'm wrong.

You are. I dedicated about half a wallpost to my reasons for scumreading this slot. Yes, I hunt lurkers. And I've seen them flip red. It is possible, in fact, to read someone who doesn't post very much.

The fact that you keep doing this thing where you vote someone, but continue to say things like

"this isn't my favorite lynch"

or

"I'll make a case here... maybe, when I want to"

is completely disingenuous.

I'm not here. Mylo is my top scumread. There are plenty of people investigating you right now. Town should be able to tell your alignment. But scum want to hide. So I look where others aren't.

If you have such an issue with our gameplay, don't fencesit while advocating for another lynch.

If you're talking about my post associating you and Myloninja, that was because I thought Mylo was scum and you looked to be the best candidate for his partner. I had the post half done by the time the mod said he wasn't lynched after all, so I went ahead and finished it.

Will post more either in a little bit or later on.

[skitter30]

@gamma:

Is deadline in ~4 hours from now?

Cuz if yes, we need to, like, figure out who's getting lynched.

(Also, can we maybe get a vc?)

So, just to summarize where we're at:

-> mylo claimed vt

-> jjd claimed macho non-consecutive watcher, has four votes

-> ausuka claimed two-shot watcher.

I kinda think that jjd's reaction to my intent was townie tbh. Incredibly anti-town, yes, but I'm having a hard time seeing scum *not* claim a PR out of spite when they're given intent (specifically 309)

[Gamma Emerald]

Deadline is how it is in the most recent vote count.

[skitter30]

I'm *pretty* sure that jjd is at L-1, and I think mylo has two votes, and I don't know where everyone else is voting atm.

jjd - voyc, ruby red, vartsun, ausuka
mylo - me, doom,
voyc - jjd (although I think this is where HS last voted cuz jjd didn't vote anyone)
vartsun - nero

not voting: mylo,

I don't know if anyone else is going to be around before deadline, which is apparently in ~4 hours I think?

I guess I can hammer but I kinda think he's flipping town? I don't really want to no-lynch though but I'm not sure if any other lynch can happen in this timeframe.

[Voyc]

I'm probably gonna be around by deadline

@doom,
What do you think of the claims?
What's your stance on the Judge wagon?

@skitter
Judge actually says he missed the intent to hammer in 329, not sure if this changes anything of your view on 309 though?,
I just noticed that and if it's an important factor, Ig it's good to know

@Judge,

He had a BP, a JK, a JOAT with a Doctor shot, a backup JOAt all along with a Hider, all in a 13 players game.

The point is Gamma is used to setups with overlapping PRs. whether he plays or moderates them. This is a fact I know about him.

Overlapping PRs, which I'm guessing you're taking to mean the JOAT and

Backup

JOAT, are not the same to identical//near identical roles

About the claims

I'm believing Ausuka over Judge
I think Ausuka is genuine, bc, imo, Judge accepted her CC by trying to defend the possibility of both of them being watchers

If Judge is scum: He knows Ausuka's claim is legit, panics, and attempts to create a world where they could both be town (what I think happened!)
If Judge is town: He's scumleaning Ausuka ( 310//this is in general what I've gotten from Ausuka vs Judge) but when she claims, accepts it without doubt and tries to understand how they could both have the same role

Why wouldn't his reaction be disbelief? In any game, if I truthfully claimed, and then got CC'd, my first thought would be: "oh, they're scum fakeclaiming, that's my role"

@anyone/everyone, what would your reactions be in this situation? Do you think Judge's makes sense??

[skitter30]

@skitter
Judge actually says he missed the intent to hammer in 329, not sure if this changes anything of your view on 309 though?,
I just noticed that and if it's an important factor, Ig it's good to know

I mean, in 309 he quotes me giving intent and then tells me 'go ahead'. I don't know what he means later but from 309 it definitely looks like he's acknowledging the intent and isn't claiming out of spite, and, like, I just don't think that's what scum does there. I think they just claim in the hopes of getting a cc to kill.

But anyway, there's no time for us to even consider another lynch, and besides if I live I'm the NK and you won't get any info/results from me, so I think I'm the best lynch option how things are.

This doesn't really come from scum also imo. Like I don't think scum encourages their own lynch here.

Also if he's scum and ausuka is town, it's kinda weird that he managed to fake-claim a very similar role that town actually has.

Why wouldn't his reaction be disbelief? In any game, if I truthfully claimed, and then got CC'd, my first thought would be: "oh, they're scum fakeclaiming, that's my role"

This is a very good point though. Idk. I just don't feel like scum ask to be lynched? I feel like they're more survivalistic.

[Ausuka]

JJD fakeclaimed my role. He was just unlucky. I called him out for it, when there was 0 chance of me getting lynched. I'm town, there aren't 2 watchers especially in a micro, and deadline approaches. Please, just hammer.