Newbie 1862 - Game Over

[RedFlavor]

I could say hws is town because if he were scum he could hust silently kill me but now that he is trying to lynch me I think he is trying to kill 2 conf towns

[HeWhoSwims]

What i'm trying to say is, that discussion should still be focussed on actual scumhunting because the PR is not gonna be as strong in this game.
Would like everyone to provide a readlist on the remaining players.

IC-moment: Townhunting is underrated. Don't focus only on finding scum, but also on finding town.

The ice cream was a very big crumb.

Claim VT

For those who believe Red is the Neapolitain, why would he wait until D2, until after a flip that can give Mafia security over what setup is being used, to crumb? And not do it literally anywhere on Day 1?

Town benefit of doing that - zero, your credibility goes down.
Scum benefit - You can say you have crumbed something when you claim, and you know for certain you can pull off this fakeclaim due to the setup info you have.

I still think lynching Red today is our one and only hope, these are the potential outcomes;
Town!Red dies today - we have a clear on Walkor.
Scum!Red dies today - I don't need to explain the benefit here.
Town!Red is roleblocked - no new action and a heavily discussed slot is possibly entering LYLO.
Town!Red is nightkilled - Can happen but scum would probably rather roleblock for WIFOM purposes than kill
Town!Red is not killed nor roleblocked - scum trying to WIFOM, however, they may very well consider this too big a risk.

In short, town!Red is killed or roleblocked tonight - I doubt anything else is going to happen - which gives us 0 benefit (he's not conftown until the flip) and leaves his slot and the dubious game in the game and possibly in LYLO. Lynching him gives us a clear (Walkor) and solves a difficult situation which may carry over ot LYLO if we don't lynch him. If he's not town, he's scum, and that's even better.

[ceejayvinoya]

I don't see the benefit of lynching Town!Red. Scum would just NK walkor and we lose our clear.

[HeWhoSwims]

But we'd have other townread players and the entire situation would be solved.

[RedFlavor]

The thing is, last time as doc I made a crumb and got killed n1 because of that
at d1, I though I would not need a crumb but after cop died, I knew the rolelist and scum could easily CC me and I would probably be lynched cuz Im a usual suspect so I crumb in order to prevent cc

[HeWhoSwims]

Yeah, the crumb is just awfully convenient you know. If you'd crumbed D1, sure I'd have believed you. But now you could just be scum who knows he can fakeclaim. And why would scum ever pass up this opportunity if they can do it relatively free of worry?

[RedFlavor]

Yes but you are assuming the setup is 1C

[HeWhoSwims]

Yes, it's convenient if you're scum which would

make

it 1C

[ejjinami]

@Red why did you check walk?
and by that:

At d1, I wanted to bait scum to fakeclaim tracker because It's somehow benefical to them in some cases but I could just CC if they did and lynch a scum

did you mean the tracker-claims conversation?

and @HWS god no, we're not lynching red. I get your point of not wanting him in LyLo, but he's really unlikely to be scum even if only because of the night kill. Besides, if that's it, he did crumb.

[HeWhoSwims]

I never remotely implied anything about the nightkill I think?

Can you see how this could easily be a fake claim? The odds of us being in the Neap-Cop setup and Cop-VT setup are equal!

[ejjinami]

ugh, I don't feel he is scum. The d1 "bait" and the way he suddenly changed his opinion on walk d1 kinda make sense if he was neap. like, I know it wouldn't be hard to fake, but lol, it looks natural. That would be a cool care for detail if he was scum. :/

if you want to lynch red, make a case on him. Like, I don't really feel him being scum rn. I don't have much time today, but I'd like to lynch in Ico/cee. Gonna paste the read tomorrow. I'd like everyone to say who do they wanna lynch and why (if they didn't do it yet after the claim).

[HeWhoSwims]

What exactly appeals to you about any of the scenarios I posted earlier where Red lives past today?

[Walkor]

so fucking sorry exams and shit oh my god

I am a

Vanilla Townie

. I'm getting the sinking suspicion that all of my town reads are wrong, or Red is scum trying to cover himself by confirming me. Either way, one of us is dead tonight, and it's probably him, unless WIFOM and RB blocks Red. If Red is alive tomorrow and has a result, he's scum.

I'm already drawing up theories as to why there hasn't been a hammer yet with 2 scum in game still, but it's...Meh. (Hence why I'm kind of reeling back on the Walkor thing but it's not really and wholly tangible).

Not sure if this makes HWS more likely to be scum, or it means that you're scum trying to get towncred by not quickhammering HWS. Either way, I think cee is probably it.

If ejji is scum, he's fooled me.

I would be voting Cee here if it wouldn't put him at L-1.

@HWS: If we lynch Town!Red today, I don't see how clearing me helps when I'm NK'd after.

[Iconeum]

I'd like to hear everyone's reasons for wanting to lynch ceej. I believe I'm the only one who has actually cased him.

[DirtyDishSoap]

The two biggest tells for me was when CJ made a post in fugly yellow and I'm not entirely sure what his reasoning is to do this. I don't remember him ever using the format in such a way and it feels like an imitation of Ejj...Which, please no, I have hard enough time reading his red.

To the post itself, he just contradicts himself. (I'm not going to quote the abomination, the mod had said not to use it and I'm too lazy to try and fix it).

Ico - Using wifom here is bad. Also, explain how Leaven would be mislynched later? He was acting very scummy D1 and wasn't getting lynched for it.

CJ - Well, he had a playstyle that reeks scummy, and I also scumread him earlier back in d1.

If leaven was still alive, I would have been okay with a lynch on him today.

HWS - I didn't like his d1 attitude of "Leaven is probably town but I'm fine with it if you all lynch him anyway." shown best at post 305

There's a number of reasons why this is wrong - If you're not fine with lynching a player that is acting scummy, but would rather keep him alive for D2 and THEN lynch him, what's your reasoning? How is that better than HWS reasons of doing it now rather than later?

CJ - I also think he's doing less of gamesolving and

more of just info giving.

Red Has a pretty vague sr on Walkor, one that when he explained later seems like reaching. Now he trs walkor on posts also done earlier than when he srd her. I'm not convinced that he just didn't catch on in those towntells yesterday.

IT'S HIS JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB

In red's case, he sheeps my case on Walk and then hammers Wheme later. No argument that I feel like Red is scummy but I don't see it likely.

CJ - What question? I merely expressed my opinion on ejjs question on wether pr should out. This is:

- pr should only out when he has a result on scum
- if hes doc he should forget about claiming because I won't believe him

Multiple ways of playing that I won't dive into.

Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:16 pm - Time stamp of when he made that post that I'm indirectly quoting.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

This is L-1 @everyone.

This is one hour later. He somehow drew the conclusion that putting HWS at L1, one hour after making the yellow post. Like...Why? Where? How? HWS and CJ has never interacted, once until yellow abomination. I don't recall them actively engaging each other to really get a feel for one another, and I don't believe CJ has really mentioned a read on him other than the Leaven incident which is weaksauce shit to begin with.

so fucking sorry exams and shit oh my god

I am a

Vanilla Townie

. I'm getting the sinking suspicion that all of my town reads are wrong, or Red is scum trying to cover himself by confirming me. Either way, one of us is dead tonight, and it's probably him, unless WIFOM and RB blocks Red. If Red is alive tomorrow and has a result, he's scum.

I'm already drawing up theories as to why there hasn't been a hammer yet with 2 scum in game still, but it's...Meh. (Hence why I'm kind of reeling back on the Walkor thing but it's not really and wholly tangible).

Not sure if this makes HWS more likely to be scum, or it means that you're scum trying to get towncred by not quickhammering HWS. Either way, I think cee is probably it.

I'm saying that you being inactive when there was at least one scum (more than likely CJ) on the HWS wagon made it sus. This is your...2nd post in D2? How would you like me to slot you?

If ejji is scum, he's fooled me.

I would be voting Cee here if it wouldn't put him at L-1.

@HWS: If we lynch Town!Red today, I don't see how clearing me helps when I'm NK'd after.

I cant find any scum motivation in Ejj when it's been pro town hero.

If we lynch Red, he flips Neo, that will confirm his read on you, assuming scum aren't stupid, you'll die, we'll be in LYLO with CJ, HWS, Myself, Ico and Ejj.

Play like this Walkor if you have time and look at these five players -

CJ, HWS, Myself, Ico and Ejj.

Who do you would likely be a team?

[HeWhoSwims]

I think Walkor needs to put out all her thoughts on all 5 of those today. I still think we should lynch red. If he's scum, yay. If he's town, we cleared the situation and we have reads from a conftownie which doesn't make them correct but at least we know they're genuine.

[ceejayvinoya]

Lols. @DDS I'm not going to quote your post I'm just gonna answer here.

- aight I'm not gonna do that fugly yellow thing again. I just thought it was a nice way to answer a post with THAT many things to answer. So it's less of imitating ejj and more of borrowing.

- I mentioned earlier I scumread leaven on d1. I also said i gutread him as town. That's why I said on d1 to

Sort him later.

So I would have been fine with a lynch with him today.

- I pretty much tr Red rn so lets leave him alone. As for HWS, I mean he does give info as IC, and also as him. Maybe it would have been better if he has a way of letting anyone know he's speaking as IC from time to time.

[ceejayvinoya]

Here's where I ended up.
So Red is pr, and walkor is his inno.
I also tr ejj, and to a lesser extent, DDS
So I'm fine with lynching in HWS/Ico today.

[HeWhoSwims]

Ceejay. What are your reasons for townreading Red? What do you think about the 8 possible/probable outcomes for the Red situation?

Also whenever I'm having an IC moment after like the 10 first pages I've mentioned it or just say "Pro tip" and that kind of stuff.

[ceejayvinoya]

Ceejay. What are your reasons for townreading Red? What do you think about the 8 possible/probable outcomes for the Red situation?

Also whenever I'm having an IC moment after like the 10 first pages I've mentioned it or just say "Pro tip" and that kind of stuff.

I'm not lynching the guy who claimed PR.

You can't make me.

He strikes me as towny because of that weird 180 on walkor earlier. If I was pr, I'd do the same thing. That is, investigate the guy that I find sus. Now Neap!Red upon finding out that walkor is town, now townreads her. I can't see scum acting like this.

[HeWhoSwims]

I've also made 180s as scum before.

Why do you think Red's claim is to be believed as easily as you seem to believe it? Why is crumbing after the cop flip acceptable?

We can't draw anything from the Walkor investigation if Red turns out to be scum. Sure he could try to clear his partner, but he could anticipate on this and name another person who, mind you, he is sure is a VT (because scum!Red makes it setup 1C) but he could anticipate on THAT and try to clear his partner so... Nothing to draw from that. I don't think you can predict how scum!Red would react and ergo I don't think his post-investigation reaction would indicate any alignment. Surely it would make sense as town though.

[ceejayvinoya]

Hmp. I wouldn't crumb on d1 either. Why risk scum seeing it and getting nkd?

[HeWhoSwims]

Why risk being mislynched in a scenario where scum fakeclaiming is more than plausible, then?

I still haven't seen you talk about what you thought of the scenarios I listed.

[HeWhoSwims]

^To add to that I've in the past crumbed Neapolitain in my first few posts of the game then claimed D3.. it's not impossible.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 2.6

ceejayvinoya (2) - DirtyDishSoap, Iconeum
HeWhoSwims (1) - RedFlavor

Not voting (4) - ceejayvinoya, ejjinami, HeWhoSwims, Walkor

With seven players alive, it takes four votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is Saturday, 5th May, 9am BST, (in (expired on 2018-05-05 09:00:00)).