Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Maestro]

WCU

World Congress

Open Debate
(Day 4 - Update 8.3)

On Day 4, all players receive 3 delegates for assignment in the World Congress.
The Host receives an additional 3 delegates, for a total of 6 delegates.

World Congress resolutions may be affecting these numbers.

Your resolutions for open debate on Day 3 are:

Spoiler:

World Religion

The time has come to declare an official World Religion, which will grant modest benefits to those who have been converted to it and encourage internal faith dialogue at the nation-state level. When assigning delegates to

support or oppose a specific World Religion

, please specify the desired

Religion

. Examples include, but are not limited to: [

Atheism, Paganism, Unitarian Universalism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Pastafarianism, Scientology

] If successful, this resolution will be enacted

permanently

, and must be repealed for any effects to be disabled.

International Games ~ (Thor665)

The time has come to celebrate on a global scale, rather than punish. If proposed for debate, utilizes the World Congress as a committee-of-the-whole to discuss a specific Civilization's sponsoring of international competition in a variety of sports, games, and disciplines. The desired

Sponsor of the International Games

has been specified beforehand, and

Thor665

must publicly release a list of events for their "International Games". Assign delegates

supporting or opposing

the Sponsor specified. If a player is specified as the Sponsor, they

may

assign delegates to themselves. This resolution

may

be enacted consecutively. (

This resolution will most likely result in diplomatic as well as economic benefits for the Sponsor.

)

Remember, only the HEAL: and HURT: tags will be counted as valid delegate assignments for resolutions, for "support" and "oppose" respectively. Be sure to specify which resolution you are supporting or opposing when assigning delegates. Players will be notified in-thread if their delegate assignment is invalid for any reason.

[18]

HEAL:

[World Religion ~ (Taoism)]

:

OnTheMark (3),

brassherald

(

3

),

pidgey

(

3

), Gamma Emerald (3), marshy (3), Jodaxq (3)

[1]

HEAL:

[International Games ~ (Thor665)]

:

Klazam (1)

[6]

HURT:

[International Games ~ (Thor665)]

:

BuJaber (3), Ranmaru (3)

---

Spoiler: Delegates Not Cast (17)

brassherald

(

3

), Chara (3), Klazam (2), Shaziro (3), Joey_ (3),

pidgey

(

3

)

WC Notes

• [*]

  brassherald

  was elected Host on Day 4
  [*]

  Thor665

  was the runner up

VCU

Votecount 4.7

[6]

Klazam

:

marshy, Chara, Gamma Emerald, BuJaber, brassherald, Thor665

(L-1)

[5]

OnTheMark

:

Shaziro, Klazam, Jodaxq, Ranmaru, pidgey

[1]

Ranmaru

:

OnTheMark

---

Spoiler: Not Voting

Maestro? Nah, nobody.

VC Notes

• With
  12
  alive, it takes
  7
  votes to lynch
  
• Deadline in (expired on 2018-05-01 00:00:00)
  
• Deadline on Tuesday, 1 May @ 12:00
  MIDNIGHT
  EDT

MOD NOTES

• Gamma Emerald
  has apparently returned to the game.
  
• The deadline has been un-obscured.

[Ranmaru]

Best guess is three teams as three kills. One SK two mafia teams of three?

Mark you should know shaz claimed vig (the 3rd kill).

Lolz okay So Shaz is SK or a vig.

That makes life easy. Destroy mafia until three dead for each known color and if game continues lynch Shaz for being SK. If game continues after that then each mafia probably had four members. I would find that odd and tilting to say the least given a d1 lynch on scum. Or we just lynch Shaz now since 21/3 = 7 meaning Shaz likely SK but I wanna read Shaz ISO to see if there is any merit to the vig claim. I don’t see how it would make sense numerically to be a vig.

Scum Mark is pushing Town Vig because it helps him keep his mislynch options open wide. Also, his 4074 is not convincing. It shows he already had the vig as a pre-determined target and is painting Shaziro as a SK instead of determining his alignment

first

.

Interesting so my theory was correct. [That Shaziro is SK]

Let me explain again. Mark is a lone Orange scum. Mark's claim is fake. He didn't claim immediately. I have dayplay reasons for why he is scum. He knows there are 2-2-2 scum since he was scum with Varsoon. Titus voted along with Varsoon which implies they share an alignment. Mark is pushing for Vig because he isn't focusing on pushing a lynch, he was hoping town would push Klazam after the kills pointed toward him, while he 're-evaluated' Pidgey. He's pinning the weird kill on the SK when it was himself.

[Ranmaru]

Lol I mean on the vig, not SK.

[Maestro]

WCU and VCU updated into the pagetop. Players who are requesting replacement should not post in-thread. Doing so will be seen as a desire to continue playing in the game.

[pidgey]

We still have 4 hours, so join upppppppppp

[Maestro]

Chara is being prodded.

[Thor665]

Thor vote with me

I have described why I consider the Mark wagon bad.
You have not addressed my raised issues.
So - no.

[OnTheMark]

Ran if I was lone orange scum everyone would be my enemy and therefore would have hammered Klazam.

However stating intent here so we actually lynch when I get home and will put faith in conf!town.

[Ranmaru]

If you were Varsoon wouldn't need to 'communicate' across the scum teams. It seems more like cross scum are working together.

[brassherald]

VOTE: Mark

L-1, I changed my mind on Klazam Mark, not because Ran has made any good arguments though.

[Ranmaru]

Marshy, vote with me.

[Shaziro]

OTM, "I COULD HAVE SELFHAMMERED" is not an argument. Scum don't always selfhammer.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Mark

L-1, I changed my mind on Klazam Mark, not because Ran has made any good arguments though.

Brass not home yet but please explain why so that way you can find your error tomorrow. This better have a damn good reason as Gamma can just track me and demonstrate that I am town to everyone.

[OnTheMark]

OTM, "I COULD HAVE SELFHAMMERED" is not an argument. Scum don't always selfhammer.

I could have hammered Kalazam earlier.

That DOES disprove your Mark is scum argument especially Ran’s I am scum alone argument.

[Shaziro]

Except A: That would have been an even more blatant scum move, and would have gotten you turbolynched and B: You've claimed repeatedly to be at work/busy and unable to post consistently, so you could easily have just missed the opportunity and now are trying to claim that as a pro-town move. It's bullshit, stop trying to feed it to us.

[Ranmaru]

titus is scummy in the first 100 posts of this game in conjunction with her later play. if she flips orange shaz isnt her partner due to post 100 + post 125 tho im pretty sure hes clear anyway

Broski, remember this? Titus = Mark = Scum. Join this wagon. We have cookies. Conftown is on it, and so is the Vig. AND ME. AND PIDGEY. What more can you ask for?

[Chara]

hello i was prodded. i lost internet. but i have it back now

[Chara]

oh, and just in time apparently. i'm very sorry, i was expecting to have wifi.

[Shaziro]

hello i was prodded. i lost internet. but i have it back now

You need to vote Mark nowish, we're running out of time, they're scum, etc etc.

[Chara]

i won't let us no lynch. going to read first, i have time until deadline.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Chara.

[Chara]

was Varsoon actually communicating? i keep seeing people assume that because he flipped mafia but brass was not actually killed in spite of Varsoon claiming he would take care of it.

[Ranmaru]

I think so. I can bring up some quotes.

[Ranmaru]

Spoiler: Varsoon Comm

Aaaaah, I'm just gonna post this and hope I'm right. I've been debating it because I think that if I am wrong and we make these setup assumptions, it could really kick us in the ass.

I was thinking a lot about what's keeping scum from just completely gaming the delegates, especially considering the snowballing that happens if scum manage to get multiple delegates.
As an earlier post of mine implies, I figured it was initially just a balance point of either scum knowing resolutions already (no info to be gained from being a world leader) or that a lot of scum voting a world leader in would be very obvious.
I then realized that it's much more likely the setup is multiball and that scum teams are only two or three players. Why's that?

1. What really tipped me off was the non-specificity of my role PM and the opening posts in regards to a 'scum team'. There's mention of eliminating 'all threats to town', but that's it.
2. I thought for sure the 'all threats to town' was an absolute nod to the game being multiball because of the wording, but after digging Venmar's mod-meta, I've discovered:
--a) Venmar uses the same wording even in his singleball setups with exclusion of an open setup he ran way back in 2012.
--b) Out of over 5 different setups of Venmar's design, only one of them was singleball entirely.
3. Given the flavor of the theme (multiple civilizations forming alliances, the fact people often play multiple 'teams', the multiple wincons in the game that different civs shoot for, etc.), there are several avenues to make this a multiball game
4. Singleball would actually make the World Congress mechanic unbalanced in favor of scum.
5. If anti-town factions have daychat, then there's NO WAY that the game is singleball, because the amount of co-ordination a full-size singular scumteam could do in this kind of setup with daychat would make the world leader mechanic almost pointless for town. However, if there are multiple smaller teams, daychat makes a lot more sense. I did not check Venmar's previous games to see if daychat was normal in his setups, but I do recall there being encryptors in the setup.

I had this revelation awhile back, between posts 100 and 200, because I had a pretty dynamic shift in how I was viewing the game/mechanics by 226 and forward.
Assuming multiball, we should be a lot more critical of the people who are laying low and self-voting, like Klazaam, because in multiball:
1. Scum players are likelier to self-vote and get a partner to boost them.
2. Scum players are likelier to avoid voting people they don't have a hard townread on because they need to avoid the other scum team become leader, too.
2. Scum players are likelier to lay low and not draw a lot of attention to themselves because they don't want to catch a cross-kill because cross-kills are what makes scum lose very fast in multiball.

This is why I townread Elbirn so hard, because he self voted but didn't seem aware of the mechanics all that much, then voiced support for Kokichi, who is not likely to be on the same scumteam as him if he was scum--if Elbirn were scum aware of multiball, he'd be way more hesitant to couch support of someone with some votes on them already. Furthermore, Elbirn's opening posts draw a lot of attention to him, imo, and wouldn't make sense coming from a multiball scum player PoV.

No, Joey, you don't understand
If there ARE multiple teams and more than one of them tries to kill Brass, then we end up with less dead town than we would have otherwise.
Alternatively, scum avoid Brass, which makes it more likely that they cross-kill and easier for us to win.
Making Brass world leader is pretty much a win/win. Only way it doesn't work out is if
1. The setup isn't multiball, but I've already outlined why it's got to be unless we're screwed when it comes to world congress anyway
2. The different teams/SK manage to all co-ordinate such that only one kill ends up on Brass.

No, Joey, you don't understand
If there ARE multiple teams and more than one of them tries to kill Brass, then we end up with less dead town than we would have otherwise.
Alternatively, scum avoid Brass, which makes it more likely that they cross-kill and easier for us to win.
Making Brass world leader is pretty much a win/win. Only way it doesn't work out is if
1. The setup isn't multiball, but I've already outlined why it's got to be unless we're screwed when it comes to world congress anyway
2. The different teams/SK manage to all co-ordinate such that only one kill ends up on Brass.

I don't think that number 2 is that unlikely to happen even if they dont coordinate and its just by chance. Also theres the obvious off-chance that only one of those team have the "tools" to assure that brass is getting killed (strongarm) which means that said team will probably be the only one trying to make the kill, anyway i understand your point but it wasn't really what i was trying to get to.

I wanted to find a way to keep the delegates in town hands by electing a block to receives the delegates day after day

I don't think that number 2 is that unlikely to happen even if they dont coordinate and its just by chance. Also theres the obvious off-chance that only one of those team have the "tools" to assure that brass is getting killed (strongarm) which means that said team will probably be the only one trying to make the kill, anyway i understand your point but it wasn't really what i was trying to get to.

I wanted to find a way to keep the delegates in town hands by electing a block to receives the delegates day after day

So what? We force a prisoner's dilemma situation on scum.
If one happens to have a strongarm/strongman, then it's very likely not unlimited use, so them having to burn a use just to get rid of our IC sounds like a win to me.

I do think that we can keep delegates in town hands, but the best place to start is with the confirmed town player, no?

Aaaaah, I'm just gonna post this and hope I'm right. I've been debating it because I think that if I am wrong and we make these setup assumptions, it could really kick us in the ass.

I was thinking a lot about what's keeping scum from just completely gaming the delegates, especially considering the snowballing that happens if scum manage to get multiple delegates.
As an earlier post of mine implies, I figured it was initially just a balance point of either scum knowing resolutions already (no info to be gained from being a world leader) or that a lot of scum voting a world leader in would be very obvious.
I then realized that it's much more likely the setup is multiball and that scum teams are only two or three players. Why's that?

1. What really tipped me off was the non-specificity of my role PM and the opening posts in regards to a 'scum team'. There's mention of eliminating 'all threats to town', but that's it.
2. I thought for sure the 'all threats to town' was an absolute nod to the game being multiball because of the wording, but after digging Venmar's mod-meta, I've discovered:
--a) Venmar uses the same wording even in his singleball setups with exclusion of an open setup he ran way back in 2012.
--b) Out of over 5 different setups of Venmar's design, only one of them was singleball entirely.
3. Given the flavor of the theme (multiple civilizations forming alliances, the fact people often play multiple 'teams', the multiple wincons in the game that different civs shoot for, etc.), there are several avenues to make this a multiball game
4. Singleball would actually make the World Congress mechanic unbalanced in favor of scum.
5. If anti-town factions have daychat, then there's NO WAY that the game is singleball, because the amount of co-ordination a full-size singular scumteam could do in this kind of setup with daychat would make the world leader mechanic almost pointless for town. However, if there are multiple smaller teams, daychat makes a lot more sense. I did not check Venmar's previous games to see if daychat was normal in his setups, but I do recall there being encryptors in the setup.

I had this revelation awhile back, between posts 100 and 200, because I had a pretty dynamic shift in how I was viewing the game/mechanics by 226 and forward.
Assuming multiball, we should be a lot more critical of the people who are laying low and self-voting, like Klazaam, because in multiball:
1. Scum players are likelier to self-vote and get a partner to boost them.
2. Scum players are likelier to avoid voting people they don't have a hard townread on because they need to avoid the other scum team become leader, too.
2. Scum players are likelier to lay low and not draw a lot of attention to themselves because they don't want to catch a cross-kill because cross-kills are what makes scum lose very fast in multiball.

This is why I townread Elbirn so hard, because he self voted but didn't seem aware of the mechanics all that much, then voiced support for Kokichi, who is not likely to be on the same scumteam as him if he was scum--if Elbirn were scum aware of multiball, he'd be way more hesitant to couch support of someone with some votes on them already. Furthermore, Elbirn's opening posts draw a lot of attention to him, imo, and wouldn't make sense coming from a multiball scum player PoV.

Mhm this makes a lot of sense. So I'm going to be on the look out for those who are scummy in general and not associative clearing, then.
Also this feels like town because it's such a deductive method that if it were scum they probably wouldn't be doing it cos already aware it's multiball/singleball and as such not as incentivized to look this stuff up

I think it's more likely that there's just multiple NKs present.

It's possible, I could see a SK actually. I'm not too sold on 2 mafia, and I don't think it's really needed to be discussed right now until we see night kills.

I've explained why it's important to consider right now.

I think the setup is either: 14-3-3-1 (bulletproof SK, lots of town power, protectives in scum/town), 15-3-3, or 15-2-2-2 or something similar to that.

Not a huge fan of you undermining the IC.

Ehhhh anything beyond 15-3-3 I don't wanna think about

I tried to pick what stood out, earlier I was searching for 'three teams' in the search bar and I found these.

[Ranmaru]

How goes the reading, Chara?