In post 337, T-Bone wrote:You've effectively made my point, by the way. Thank you.
what point?
In post 338, Vaxkiller wrote:Mutante. Your town reads have legit people they are voting for, but your voting for no one? You also have your own scum reads... and voting for no one? I mean wtf?
VOTE: Mutante
I think you guys are ignoring mutante because its too obvious.
i think town loses a lot by lynching the townies who do outrageous things and ignoring the silently scummy players. i'm not sure if mutant can be classified as "townie" in that first part, but he's certainly "doing outrageous things". i prefer to focus on the second group.
In post 341, Vaxkiller wrote:It's not outrageous. It's nonsensical. I mean why post it? It comes off awkward an weird.
In post 344, Vaxkiller wrote:Yes! But not as direct as you are making it seem. I think he wants to be seen as doing something.
i mean, i think if mutant were scum who wanted to be townread for doing things then he could just do that by playing a normal scumgame, which he's done before.
i don't know – i'm not going to go into a hard defense here but i think there's almost certainly something deeper going on than "mutant is scum who's deliberately acting weird", and i don't think it'd be very useful for me to vote there right now.
In post 349, Vaxkiller wrote:I think hes acting weird and he is scum. Not deliberately acting weird to be scum read.
In post 350, northsidegal wrote:you think this is him attempting to play a regular scumgame (ie get townread by everyone)?
In post 353, Vaxkiller wrote:Why would you think that I think: he is scum deliberately acting weird?
and so on, didn't feel the need to quote the entire thing. i didn't feel like there was any scum intention in what he was saying or in his push on mutant, even though we disagreed.
I would most like a Fire lynch but I'm scared he'll hate me forever so he gets a 1 day pass. I'd compromise with AA9 or Mutant. All the people complaining about the day not ending yet could just vote AA9 to get the day over with.
Pine jumping from Mutant to Vax doesn't instill confidence in a lynch going through today, seeing as he's holding most of the influence around here. LLD needs to put down a vote too.
In post 1915, CheekyTeeky wrote:I've recently learned that scum are most likely to stay off mislynch bait especially when there's suspicion around the wagon so that drops Brian down for me.
In post 1915, CheekyTeeky wrote:I've recently learned that scum are most likely to stay off mislynch bait especially when there's suspicion around the wagon so that drops Brian down for me.
???
You staying off the AA9 wagon when it was under suspicion pings me given you've been happy following everything else.
Yeah, i don't actually think brian's 942 comes from town. It's incredibly similar to the case he wrote up as scum in touhou upick just recently on katyusha. I don't think town Brian actually makes cases on people like that: from doing a quick look over his ISOs from Beneath the Mask and A Mid-Scummer Night's Dream (other semi-comparable large theme games), both games where he was town, i didn't see anything like this. Now, that quick skim isn't a huge reason
for
him being scum, it's just a quick litmus test: i'm seeing something which i feel comes from scum!Brian. Has it come from town!Brian in the past? Well, not really from what i've seen.
Even without meta I think Brian's 942 is scummy enough to warrant his lynch. These are his points against T-Bone:
In post 942, Brian Skies wrote:A complete mess of pushing back and forth on Cheeky that culminates with teh response: 'At no point did I ever make a judgment about your alignment (or anyone else's for that matter). At no point have I suggested we lynch you.' Which begs the question of what exactly was the purpose of TBone's interactions with Cheeky in the first place.
Also not a stance.
He then continues to mock Cheeky without committing to a read either way on her and then feels the need to tell her that he's still not accusing her of anything.
Claims Cheeky has the most game-relevant content, but once again, no stance.
Admits his North vote was completely random. Ends the conversation with: 'I don't think you did anything scummy,' which begs the question of half his conversation with NSG and once again, not a stance.
Responds to Vax and talks about Mutant.
No stance on either.
Meh. One stance I guess. Although I'm unsure as to whether he's just continuing it on from the 'probably just a joke' from the beginning of the game or if there's actual reasons for this.
Didn't really say anything beyond this and didn't vote her with me.
Buries this in a spoiler tag, but doesn't go into why he townreads Cheeky or fight against her lynch in any way.
Eh. I guess this isn't a completely awful vote. But there isn't anything that makes me believe TBone believes this will flip scum.
Also, while I don't want to encourage VC burning, I just feel that scum blatantly going through them would be a completely unclassy move to make.
If I've somehow missed one of TBone's amazing stances this game, enlighten me
Let's lynch TBone for crimes against all that is good in the world.
Obviously i'm just quoting what he said and so removing the context of what T-Bone said, but on their own and as a whole i don't think the reasons that he pointed out are actually scum-indicative. I think this is scum looking at a townie doing things that can easily be pointed out as inconsistent, weird or just as seemingly scummy ("not taking a stance, doesn't explain things, etc.")
For your convenience, this was Brian's case on Katyusha in touhou upick:
Spoiler:
In post 405, Brian Skies wrote:First of all, if you haven't caught on already, I strongly believe that Kat's scum here, and I'll break it down for you.
Using your spell card today is a scumclaim and will be met with a policy lynch
I have a vig that only works on wagons that have gone to L-1 and I feel it’s best used as a double lynch today - I realize a lot of people may think I shouldn’t claim this but
when I roll town I find I play better while conftown
-
and this role is pretty strong and obviously town when it’s coordinated by town
, most L-1 wagons either end in a lynch or are bad lynches anyway. And yes it’s stage 1 so it works at day
We should try to decide on a first lynch around 4-5 days into the DP, and then use info from that for the next lynch. I will not shoot a townread (or Purrcocet unless I’m 100% sure they are scum) however.
In post 63, Katyusha wrote:As I understand it, L-1 in the past as long as it’s in a VC
I can double check though
In post 0, FakeGod wrote:It must be your stage or past your stage for you to be able to use your spell card.
She opens up by saying he wants to use her role and anyone who decides to use theirs instead is scum (strong fearmongering, favored tactic by most scum; coupled with the fact that she's claiming a 'vig' type role, this makes for an effective tactic for scaring townies into following them). This irked me because there was no discussion as to whether her role was best for the day or that if someone else had a better role to use that she'd be open to it. This felt more like a power play by Kats to confirm her role and hope that by claiming and confirming her role people would townread her for it, rather than trying to see what was best for the town and making sure she would take the best shot (emphasized by her stated desire to be conftowned and treated as town by confirmability and wanting to make sure she got her vig shot off and getting a second flip rather than making sure it was the best thing to do). From my experience, town are less concerned about being treated as conftown, but scum prioritize it since it gives them more influence over the playerlist and also lets them skate by on bad towncred.
Also note that nothing about her role or the setup states that she
has
to use it today, so her pushing to use it feels more like someone who wants to take advantage of it immediately and get rid of a potential threat rather than someone hoping to optimize its use.
In post 4, Katyusha wrote:I will not shoot a townread (or Purrcocet unless I’m 100% sure they are scum) however.
In post 12, Katyusha wrote:but i highly doubt there's a better PR to use D1, it's basically a free cop on me too
Notice how she reemphasizes that her role is best for today (debatable) AND that by confirming her role, she's be basically conftowned (confirmabilty != town).
none, my chakras are flaring tho theres something with them i FEEL IT
but yo purrcs i got a counterproposal for u:
VOTE: purrcocet
She subtly instigates Purrcoat and then jumps on him when he suspects her.
In post 37, Katyusha wrote:I agree that what they haven’t done is like scummy and that elbirn’s push is townie but they’re capable of doing that as scum and are probably memeing. Either way they need pressure
Doesn't think Purr is scummy, but he needs pressure?
In post 58, Elbirn wrote:I reside in a serene and peaceful world where no moderator is enough of a bastard to grant even more killing power to the team whose power it is to kill people. It is wonderful here. There is birdsong, and the gentle pitter-patter of the snowmelt dripping off of the tree branches and into the lake below. I breath out, and with my breath go all of my troubles. Because FakeGod knows that if there's a scum vig I am going to frown at him.
In post 59, Katyusha wrote:agreed on you about scum vigs - when i was thinking about claiming i wasnt sure if FG's design style is different for this sort of game,
i've only read the alice in wonderland games
and all of the games that've been played during my time. i probably should take a look later, i'm honestly not sure what to expect if we're getting basically a D1 double lynch and probably 3 scum.
In post 103, Katyusha wrote:oh shit scum did have killing power in that one, hm
i guess i'm not an IC, which is fine, but still.
i still think we should use my spellcard asap
In post 124, Brian Skies wrote:Kat, you said you read all the Alice in Wonderland games, but did you come across that one? It's the sequel to his Through the Looking Glass game.
That setup was built around giving clues of that role’s existence, which Kagami figured out pretty quickly (though she did have the flip to help her)
I figured if FG were to include a scum vig it’s going to be more clearly scum by set up spec.
Notice how Kat agrees with Elbirn that vigs are less likely to be scum and how she brings up other games to support her claim. When I brought it up to her, I was expecting her response to be more along the lines of 'I forgot that game' or 'I didn't see that one because it the title didn't fit the theme' or something along those lines. Instead she admits to knowing about it but didn't bring it up, and the explanation seemed to be more of her trying to explain her way back into her original narrative and how it didn't apply rather than any acknowledgement of why her role could be suspicious.
Also note how even after it's made clear to her that there were scum killing powers in other games, and that her role wouldn't make her town, that she still wanted to make sure she could use her power. Feels like she's getting antsy and wants to make sure she gets her ability off.
In post 143, Katyusha wrote:didn't even notice the brian wagon but i like its composition so far and i'm not townreading him
VOTE: Brian Skies
Another vote on someone who openly suspects her, but fails to explain why I'm worthy of a vote other than 'I'm not being townread.' Probably her looking to shut down those who suspect her and get rid of a threat.
In post 149, Human Sequencer wrote:if ur all wagoning him cuz his posts are ugly that's something I completely understand but gamma deserves it too and maybe even Kat
HS openly suspects Kat as well, and once again, see where Kat ends up going.
In post 185, Text Generator wrote:Eddie and probably one of Kiana or Lexa are scum; BS is provisionally town. The composition of the BS wagon, for the record, is actually bad. Gaiden might be scum too.
Katyusha changed her claim and should vig the L-1 wagon
after
an unvote to prove that her role is actually what she just said. If she can vig anyone who has ever been at L-1, I'd agree that that seems unlikely as a scum role.
VOTE: eddie cane
In post 190, Katyusha wrote:I’ve never changed my claim, what are you talking about?
Can you expand on your Eddie read?
In post 191, Text Generator wrote:You claimed you could vig the L-1 wagon initially. Then you claimed you could vig anyone who had ever been at L-1, which is very different in my mind.
Tentatively EC's reads look easy or spurious. He has a pool of mostly low content posters, and his preferred lynch order is nearly the opposite of the order I read the slots in.
To a certain extent, I'm waiting for Kiana and Sky Paladin to do something, but I don't want to make them post because I want to see if they'll continue to lie low.
In post 194, Katyusha wrote:Meh, I figure the “have gone to” shows it works on past wagons but I get you
I can kind of see where Eddie’s reads are coming from as well and am not sure if viewing the gamestate differently is scummy at this stage - if anything I kind of think it’s better to see where he takes them since that’s how I usually read stronger scum players
Not sure if “spurious” is the word i’d put to them. They seem like reasonable gutreads as well - especially considering how he’s not really strongly scumreading anyone. I feel like people faking reads don’t just “wind up” faking poe reads and if I nailed down a reason for why his reads seem genuine it’s that. Not to insinuate scum are incapable of faking reads, I just don’t think with the persona Eddie would put up this game it fits that well
Plus one on Kiana and Sky, though
Kat's quick to defend Eddie, who she'd bee trying to warm up to and who also has 'POE' reads in her favor. She claims to 'kinda see where Eddie's reads are coming from,' but fails to discern how or why she feels this way, just that she thinks he's town. I still have to go through Eddie's posts, but I find this noteworthy and possibly indicative of a buddy.
In post 198, Katyusha wrote:Purrc idk if I’ve ever agreed w ur votes this game
Awkward reaction considering Purr doesn't even townread Kat, Kat doesn't have any strong feelings on Purr either way, and she even tried to wagon Purr before moving on after realizing people weren't interested in flashwagoning him.
In post 207, Katyusha wrote:{Elbrin, DLE}
{Dunnstral, Purrcs}
{Eddie, Gamma, hebi}
{Gaiden}
-----------
{Kiana, Lexa, TG}
{Brian, HS}
Suddenly Purr is town, which is mostly an Eddie read, and her scumpool is comprised of lurkers/lynchbait and players that have openly suspected her or questioned her claim.
In post 145, Human Sequencer wrote:96 is a really bad post
it's not even that scummy
it's just bad
i don't wanna live in a universe where people actually vote other people for knowing who is and isn't in the game
this is kind of a weird thing to say about the person you're voting for though
Another awkward comment, because apparently HS can't have conflicting thoughts about someone he RVS-voted.
It bothers me that Eddie feels the need to state the same scumreads over and over with minimal changes (which are mostly lurker/inactive players as well as those who openly suspect or don't immediately accept Kat as town), but I feel like Kat wouldn't brazenly copy Eddie's scumreads (in that she only omits Hebi and Sky) if this was an Eddie/Kat scumteam. The overlap here though is a big red flag (mostly for Kat since I see this more as her sheeping his reads than buddies pushing the same thing).
In post 243, Human Sequencer wrote:Kat is a towny town
why do we have to waste an easy townread on a confirmable slot zzz
This is a questionable post, especially since HS openly suspected kat earlier (without explanation). Not sure if this is actually how HS feels about Kat or if he's just giving in to Kat's intimidation.
In post 263, Human Sequencer wrote:can you really not see how a slot having a lot of one line, unimpressionable posts can cause them to mentally slurry together with other players
maybe it's from doing an iso? i don't know, having read this game entirely in context and not yet doing an ISO i feel like Eddie has been kind of echoing what I've been thinking in my head a lot, maybe change a thing or two.
and yeah, don't force reads if you don't have to. i have full faith if you're town you can towntell and scumhunt fine but right now I don't really see it. If anything you kind of remind me of your play in that shitty micro from way back when? it was literally your last game iirc, you felt kind of potatoey i guess and just kind of floating around. if you're just in a rut though let's try to get out of it
the difference is i'm not thinking what you're thinking
i've asked him to explain the whole brian thing like twice and he's just stonewalling me so i don't know how i'm supposed to see what he's seeing
if the micro was the nano multiball with luca blight (which was my last game before hiatus i think) then i was in a massive rut then, but i was also town in that game
i don't feel particularly rutty rn tho
In post 274, Katyusha wrote:also the possibility i'm getting pocketed exists etc
i dont want to paranoia lynch eddie d1 though i'd feel like a shitty friend
HS tries to air his suspicions on Eddie, and Kat continues to strangely buddy his reads and defend him.
From my experience, scum struggle with reasons for scumreading someone, and so far, Kat/Eddie have mostly been just townreading players (something that's far easier for scum since they already know their alignments). Elbirn's confusion over Kat/Eddie's Gaiden townread (someone I alway struggle with reading, although I think I remember Kagami claiming to have a good grasp on him), resonates a little with me.
Also, HS is right in that Eddie mostly just reiterated his POE pool instead of explaining his reads in any way.
In post 120, SXTLHGaiden wrote:I also just learned that going to night phase advances the stage.
feels like an oddly specific thing to try to derptowntell with as scum, i think it's more likely genuine
scum probably have had some time to discuss the setup and mechanics considering how much it's centered around the game, if he's scum i think he just doesn't mention this while giving setup info since it's not on his mind
nothing conclusive i'd like hard-whiteknight him off of but it's a preliminary townread.
I'm also not really buying this as a reason to townread Gaiden. Sure, it seems a little odd for someone to state openly in thread, but fake towntells are a thing and I don't see how this reaction couldn't have been faked. Not to mention it's not like Gaiden's really done anything that I find even moderately helpful or insightful.
In post 302, Eddie Cane wrote:where? also, i've posted about why i scumread brian at least a while ago, you literally just iso'd me.
For the record, the only explanation I've found regarding his BS/HS scumreads thus far are that he thinks we're 'buddies.' But the only reasoning I can infer from his posts is that HS doesn't understand why I was being wagoned and that we've both suspected Kat to some degree.
In post 302, Eddie Cane wrote:Brian has seen one of my worst town games on site, that was mostly because my hydra partner told me someone was 100% scum and to push it and they had a 10 game track record of reading that person flawlessly and they were town.....
Lol.
Kiana spamming the thread seems like a good stopping point for now. I'll go over more reads in my next post.
I also don't really feel the need to claim, but will if needed. My role does play into my scumread of Kat a little bit.
My quoting of 954 was more to show off your scumread of T-Bone than to comment on any of the content in that post specifically. I suppose 955 would have been a better example.
I still stand by anything I said about TBone outside of the 'no stances thing's. Obviously not the case, but the other things I pointed out were why I was scumreading him to begin with.
Once upon a time, there was a Rabbit who was once a chronic lurker. He would join as many games as would interest him, mostly just out of curiosity to see what role PM he would get, not caring that his attention would be split between several games or that he would constantly fall behind. Every time he would return to a game he joined, he would forget everything he read, thus rereading the game several times and from different perspectives. He would make giant walls full of content, sometimes mostly serving as a sort of transparent thought process to remind him what he was thinking the last time he visited the game.
Then one game, an angry Wolf constantly berated his posts. He called them unreadable and threatened to torture the Rabbit to death with Justin Bieber music. The Rabbit was concerned about his play, and respected the Wolf. So the Rabbit approached the Wolf and asked for his advice. The Wolf, who was once very angry and irritated, was instead very kind to the Rabbit, telling him not to be overly concerned, but to lurk less and do his best to help the town play to their wincon.
And thus began the Rabbit's journey to becoming a better player, making the concerted effort to join only as many games as he was able and changing his playstyle so that he could be a more engaged and readable player.
The Rabbit sometimes misses the Wolf, but at least the Wolf is probably happy wherever he is not playing Mafia.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
