Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[OnTheMark]

Its not really dificult to find out who OntheMark is.

And I would appreciate it if you don’t out that.

It may be more obvious than oxygen is required for breathing but I am trying to work on my game without the stigma of my prior.

[OnTheMark]

Suggestion: Scum was bussing d1. Who and why?
If you attack the suggestion: Why not?

[StefanB]

StefanB

(1) ~ implosion(53)
implosion(2) ~ Hiraki(26), Prism(17)
Prism(1) ~ Erika Furudo(50)

Flavor Leaf

(2) ~ Saudade(75),

CultofAthena

CultofAthena(lynch): GreyIce, Gamma Emerald,

Hoopla, Cheetory6, StefanB, Flavor Leaf

, MoI

I would argue not. (Yes I collored myself green) MoI is the tracker, Grey is scum is somethink that would require a lot of huh, really????. And the other player is you...
And scum (and we) are bussy killing the waggon off.
A busser has really little to hide.
Since Saudade is town and I have a townread on Prism, that means I look of wagon.

[OnTheMark]

To be fair anyone who is really worried about Hoopla today consider Burden of Proficency. Realistically Hoopla (and Grey and Cheet) are all in the same boat as me. As someone with long histories of quality play on site we can’t be left alive long term by scum as Town. Certainly any of the four of us kicking around near LYLO is a danger sign. Keep that in the back of your head if you are Town.

Erika would be my pick in those voters as most likely scum as it stands. Really have already said my piece on that issue.

You mean this? Can someone explain to me why scum didn’t kill the tracker claim and instead kill others? Yes I say claim because I am sorting it. Deal.

[OnTheMark]

Also help me find Magna’s results?

[StefanB]

The tracker claimed day 2 as a counterclaim towards fakeclaiming town.
So it is only Hoopla that was killed instead.
He claimed to be roleblocked night 1 and followed Saudede who went nowhere (this is correct)
MoIs theory is that they were afraid of a watcher, Greys that scum screwed up.
Hoopla could have been more dangerous than MoI for the scum, that is my theory, because she was on the right track, while MoI hasn't been on the right track since the hammer.

[OnTheMark]

The tracker claimed day 2 as a counterclaim towards fakeclaiming town.
So it is only Hoopla that was killed instead.
He claimed to be roleblocked night 1 and followed Saudede who went nowhere (this is correct)
MoIs theory is that they were afraid of a watcher, Greys that scum screwed up.
Hoopla could have been more dangerous than MoI for the scum, that is my theory, because she was on the right track, while MoI hasn't been on the right track since the hammer.

How do we know Saudade went nowhere? In other words I ask to verify the events?

Also if scum roleblocked him thinking he is a PR why did they stop?

I ask not to be an asshole but to make sure there is a firm foundation before going forward.

[OnTheMark]

Was there another significant event like a claim that caused them not to roleblock MOI?

[OnTheMark]

Let’s examine MOI’s reads versus Cheetory’s at EoD1

[StefanB]

Well MoI told us and Saudade can verify it.
And they aren't scum together.
If it is enough I can garantie that the result of MoI is not wrong.

Claim: A fakeclaim and perhaps a softclaim they could have picked up.

P-edit: Cheet was more sheeping Grey (and a short time me) at the point.

[OnTheMark]

I think this is where I'm at atm?
My scumreads feel so consensus right now :').

Gamma
============
implosion, COA
============
GI
============
Erika, Stefan, Hoopla, Saudade, Hiraki
============
Prism
============
MOI, Flavor

@UCV

can you update the OP playerlist please?

Obviously the COA being town was wrong. But having voted Stefan later means that his bottom tier is [Prism,MOI,Flavor,Stefan]

[OnTheMark]

Well MoI told us and Saudade can verify it.
And they aren't scum together.
If it is enough I can garantie that the result of MoI is not wrong.

Claim: A fakeclaim and perhaps a softclaim they could have picked up.

P-edit: Cheet was more sheeping Grey (and a short time me) at the point.

How can Saudade verify it? Is he a self watcher? If he is a VT that means MoI could be a role cop.

I can agree to that. I am trying to see if I can townfirm MoI here. But what it looks like is his claim and then mysteriously NOT dying.

[StefanB]

And also perhaps important Grey and MoI (who started fakeclaiming Mason) were at each others troths for a long time this game, so scum hopped for a lynch there perhaps.

P-Edit: MoI is not a rolecop, that is one think that I know.

[OnTheMark]

The large number if Singleton vanity votes. Since Flavor has been the leading wagon there really has only been one even middling counter wagon attempt - me. Scum have made no significant effort to find another lynch. If Flavor was scum and he’s being bussed there would be a stronger effort to get the Bus pushed through for Town cred. Instead we get neither and a weak wagon with a large number of people sitting on solo off votes waiting for momentum to end Flavor.

Willing to bet at least one of the solo votes is scum.

The voters - Grey, Erika slot , Cult, Prism

I don’t like this composition really, but I didn’t like Cult’s vote and made me uneasy about the Hoopla wagon.

This is the epitome of a compromise wagon. But I think it’s telling

VOTE: Flavor

ISO Flavor and do a search for Cult. Notice how there is a complete lack of mentioning Cult in any capacity until this vote.

Then decide - does it really make sense that Flavor is "bothered" by Cult's vote when he has expressed zero worry about him previous and said vote is on Hoopla who is supposedly one of Flavor's top scum reads?

Nah, don't think so.

Pedit how do you know it:

Grey Erica Cult Prism << at least one scum in here on D1 and Cult flipped scum.

[OnTheMark]

Oh right, like 90%

Vote: Cult

This may be a scum claim from Grey let’s see if MoI’s reads changed to townread Grey.

[OnTheMark]

Quick phone post .. did a detailed read and have some quick thoughts -

UNVOTE: Grey

I’ve got two people I’m torn between on where my vote goes. Need some input on a couple of things before I commit -

Stefan - why shouldn’t I see 1083 as scum thinking? A clear on a VT is an absolute win for Town when PRs exist.

Hiraki - why is Gamma’s vote on Saud from a scum perspective?

Finally the first play to state what I find interesting about 1270 gets a cookie and vote amnesty for today.

Hmmm interesting. Why did MoI stop pushing Grey and why did MoI stop being blocked?

[StefanB]

To you P-Edit that I will answer when I have to.

[OnTheMark]

Consider this you have to then.

You could (assuming MoI is town as you claim) confirm MoI as town, and if you are a PR as you claim you could then force scum to roleblock one of you kill another then have the other of you be around for leading the lynch tomorrow. Now you have already strongly hinted PR so if scum is competent then they’d be doing that anyway. So answer me this: why do you hold back?

[OnTheMark]

VC day 1:
StefanB(1) ~ implosion(53)
implosion(2) ~ Hiraki(26), Prism(17)
Prism(1) ~ Erika Furudo(50)

Flavor Leaf

(2) ~ Saudade(75),

CultofAthena

CultofAthena(lynch)

: GreyIce, Gamma Emerald,

Hoopla

,

Cheetory6

, StefanB,

Flavor Leaf

, MoI

VC day 2:

Flavor Leaf

(6-LYNCHED) - Piplup, Saudade, GreyICE, StefanB, MagnaofIllusion,

Flavor Leaf

Piplup (2) -

Hoopla

, implosion
implosion (1) - Prism

Not voting (2) -Hiraki, Gamma Emerald

Hiraki, Implosion and Prism haven't been on the lynchwaggon all game. Piplup and Saudade were of the scumlynch but on the townlynch, but both with very believable reasons.

VOTE: Implosion
I had a scumread here some time ago. Since that is my only scumread I am sure about, I will vote here.

Calling it here one of MoI or Grey is likely scum.

[StefanB]

Because everyone has pretty much ignored me since day 1(and I think I claimed PR since day 1) and everythink will be crystal clear upon my dead.
I can't confirm MoI as scum or town, I can confirm that he isn't a rolecop and I belive him to be a tracker.
Since MoI has made it clear that he will lynch confirmed town if he thinks they are bad players because they believe that he is scum, I am a bit unsure what the best option here is.
And now scum has to guess where the better roleblock is.

[OnTheMark]

Because everyone has pretty much ignored me since day 1(and I think I claimed PR since day 1) and everythink will be crystal clear upon my dead.
I can't confirm MoI as scum or town, I can confirm that he isn't a rolecop and I belive him to be a tracker.
Since MoI has made it clear that he will lynch confirmed town if he thinks they are bad players because they believe that he is scum, I am a bit unsure what the best option here is.
And now scum has to guess where the better roleblock is.

Interesting. Where did you think you claimed day one? I am forming a theory and I wanna see if it has juice.

[StefanB]

Okay, $20 bet, MOI, Flavor Leaf, StefanB. That's my money, that's where it's at.

Please do consider alternatives. Okay your flavorread is indepent of me beeing scum.

Yeah that stefan case is actually pretty good. I think 383 is the thing I was initially townreading him for, mostly off tone. But looking at it more closely it's the kind of thing that can be genuine from

a player

who has no idea how to react to

Flavor.

I bolded what has really happened. I have said everythink I can say to my defence until I am at L-1. Mostly the people are sheeping Grey at the moment. I would probably considering doing this myself if the case sounds belivable. I don't think it does, read my Posts 582 and 598 at last. You can still call he scum caught for the wrong reason, but please don't say the case has merrit.

Here was the first hint.

Btw: I would prefer to not only having only sheepers on the waggon easier.
If you want to sheep Grey this is the wrong waggon to do so.
Have a good reason if you are on it would be good for you.

I also don't think that Greys case is good enough to sheep here. It is so that I believe he believes it, so he is not scum for it.
But at the moment players are sheeping Greys personality not his case.
Since I want to have fun with it and get somethink out of it, can those voting me state please why they believe I am scum, so we can find the scum on the weagon easier, thanks.

Here I was very much softclaiming PR

Btw my prediction for today is actually an Implosion-lynch.

And the weakest vote that is at the moment at my weagon is getting lynched, should have been another strong hint.
I knew I needed to say one word here btw.

[OnTheMark]

Because everyone has pretty much ignored me since day 1(and I think I claimed PR since day 1) and everythink will be crystal clear upon my dead.
I can't confirm MoI as scum or town, I can confirm that he isn't a rolecop and I belive him to be a tracker.
Since MoI has made it clear that he will lynch confirmed town if he thinks they are bad players because they believe that he is scum, I am a bit unsure what the best option here is.
And now scum has to guess where the better roleblock is.

Okay now let’s look at what you said very carefully (under the assumption you and MoI are town temporarily.)

1) You can confirm him to not be a rolecop. This means you have an active or a passive that gave information to you that is a day or night power. This would mean town would have two investigatives that would act/receive information on D1/d2.

2)

Returning "No Result" to Trackers who do not see their target go anywhere (in favor of "Your target did not visit anyone")

[OnTheMark]

Then my theory is likely correct more than likely Cheetory6 was killed for his reads.

[OnTheMark]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

FYI link I am using for the “not normal stuff” above.