Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[GreyICE]

Look at the setup again. Rolecop can only find the Innocent Child (pft) and the Neapolitan (okay). Everyone else comes back "vanilla" and they're one shot.
So basically it's a 2 shot cop and some bizarre nonsense versus the world.

Think it belongs in the theme queue myself, but if you know anything about balance then you know Hoopla's old standard was "three strong/four weaker town power roles versus little scum power, or four strongish/five weaker town power roles versus scum roleblockers and scum power" and largely that's proven balanced (although there's been a recent drive for more town power due to declining win rates).

Now outside of setup spec, yes, good job fishing out my role. What you also fished out is you're a mostly goon team. So thanks for the info!

[OnTheMark]

I have seen 4 townpowerroles in a mininormal before. (Mod: Zar
Yates (Town Role Cop) Survived and Won!
Zoroaster (Town Roleblocker) Survived and Won!
Johhog (Macho Cop) was killed on Night One.
Kingmaker (Compulsive Bodyguard) was killed on Night Two.

3 is completly normal against 3 scum

So huh?

The last question is mindblowing, why jk the claimed tracker?

We have found bad logic, have we found scum is the other question.
The last posts from OntheMark screams yes.

VOTE: OntheMark
I remember 1988, we nearly lynched one of the powerroles (and lynched the other)
Not they were 1-shot btw 2-shot. They only way they gave a guilty was when both investigated the same player what happened. (Or the scum fakeclaims) The Day 5-inochild never survives until day 5.

So the claimed tracker lives?

There is scum in MoI and Grey and Stefan mark my words.

[OnTheMark]

Look at the setup again. Rolecop can only find the Innocent Child (pft) and the Neapolitan (okay). Everyone else comes back "vanilla" and they're one shot.
So basically it's a 2 shot cop and some bizarre nonsense versus the world.

Think it belongs in the theme queue myself, but if you know anything about balance then you know Hoopla's old standard was "three strong/four weaker town power roles versus little scum power, or four strongish/five weaker town power roles versus scum roleblockers and scum power" and largely that's proven balanced (although there's been a recent drive for more town power due to declining win rates).

Now outside of setup spec, yes, good job fishing out my role. What you also fished out is you're a mostly goon team. So thanks for the info!

And you are scum or the world’s biggest can’t read for shit.

And I am willing to die on the first.

[GreyICE]

I'm blocking Cheeky tonight

That's for after I'm dead. Magna should get out one more good track, so that'll be two clears. Mass claim tomorrow, and work from there.

For the guide, there should be 3-5 town power roles. Tracker is a weak town power role, Jailkeeper is a moderate one, so I'd be leaning four, even against mostly goons.

POPCORN CLAIM.

Cheeky gets to pick if the kill goes through, otherwise... well this game will be very simple, yes? If you don't know what a popcorn claim is, I know Hiraki does. Stefan claims first, to lock in his soft claim.

[OnTheMark]

I'm blocking Cheeky tonight

That's for after I'm dead. Magna should get out one more good track, so that'll be two clears. Mass claim tomorrow, and work from there.

For the guide, there should be 3-5 town power roles. Tracker is a weak town power role, Jailkeeper is a moderate one, so I'd be leaning four, even against mostly goons.

POPCORN CLAIM.

Cheeky gets to pick if the kill goes through, otherwise... well this game will be very simple, yes? If you don't know what a popcorn claim is, I know Hiraki does. Stefan claims first, to lock in his soft claim.

When I flip town do not do this.

Fucking Lynch GreyICE

[OnTheMark]

Furthermore that is not how anything like works.

You also should be trying to save people who would likely die that are in the town block.

Unless you’re saying that MoI mysteriously won’t die again?

[GreyICE]

Well that'll be a different game, so we'll make a different plan for that game.

[OnTheMark]

What good is a result if MoI is lying on the tarmac dead?

The plan when I flip town is to have GreyICE flip.

That is the only acceptable plan.

[GreyICE]

Are you kidding me.
Are you fucking kidding me.
On low scum counts the Jailkeeper is MUCH more valuable as a cop than as a doctor. Cop is a better role than doctor 100%.
Mathblade, is that you?

[OnTheMark]

Are you kidding me.
Are you fucking kidding me.
On low scum counts the Jailkeeper is MUCH more valuable as a cop than as a doctor. Cop is a better role than doctor 100%.
Mathblade, is that you?

Doc > Cop

Every time

And yes god damn it

[Hiraki]

If you haven't read everything, then why are you acting like you have?

[OnTheMark]

This game is won through words and persuasion on a foundation of truth

Not mechanics.

I love mechanics

But lynches are what win mafia. Not oh I made a role thing

Which I just 100% do not believe you are a JK.

You even went along with the roleblocked bit

[OnTheMark]

If you haven't read everything, then why are you acting like you have?

Because I have skimmed enough to see GreyICE is full of shit. This isn’t him.

[OnTheMark]

After all no one can explain why the fuck MoI wasn’t killed the past two nights.

Day one is iffy if no one saw the claim.
Day two on the other hand why the hell was hoopla killed over a PR?

No one is answering this shit

[GreyICE]

Are you kidding me.
Are you fucking kidding me.
On low scum counts the Jailkeeper is MUCH more valuable as a cop than as a doctor. Cop is a better role than doctor 100%.
Mathblade, is that you?

Doc > Cop

Every time

And yes god damn it

Okay, this was looking a lot like you. Your speculation hurts me inside.

And no, trust me. Cop's effects on win rates are enormous. Doctor barely has an impact. Cop always works, always. Doctor works IF you guess the night kill, and if you do the effect is barely better than a cop's (you confirm one person town, but it only gets you an extra lynch if you do it twice). In addition the doctor confirming someone town only happens on obvtown players, and is a weaker confirm than the cop's (scum can always no kill). Doctor can never find scum, cop can. Cop is the strongest role outside of weird mini-only roles, doctor is a role that I consider weak outside of certain PR interactions. I'd say an 11:2 with one cop would be close to unwinnable for scum, an 11:2 with one doctor would probably be balanced.

[GreyICE]

After all no one can explain why the fuck MoI wasn’t killed the past two nights.

Day one is iffy if no one saw the claim.
Day two on the other hand why the hell was hoopla killed over a PR?

No one is answering this shit

'cause scum had no idea what happened obviously. All they know was that Magna was claimed to be blocked N1, and they didn't do it. Spooooky. Scum hate spooky because it usually ends with them getting lynched. So they shot the obvious townie whose an incredibly strong player. It was arguing Gamma or Implosion to me, and this is settling it.

[OnTheMark]

Lol I win 9:2 with cop given an n0 for breakfast. Look at MU
9:2 with a doc fucking unwinnable.

11:2 with a cop only not balanced for town
11:2 with a doc balanced with maybe a minor PR.

Cop is hella easy to kill.

Like seriously dude.

[StefanB]

I had some thoughts if it was MoI, but for Grey to went along with it, would mean that Grey and MoI are scum together, that planned their whole game after that one fakeclaim...
That hurts.

I use the JK also more to catch scum, I think that doctor is a better role than Grey states here, btw.

P-Edit: And the cop a hell better role than OnTheMark states here.

[OnTheMark]

After all no one can explain why the fuck MoI wasn’t killed the past two nights.

Day one is iffy if no one saw the claim.
Day two on the other hand why the hell was hoopla killed over a PR?

No one is answering this shit

'cause scum had no idea what happened obviously. All they know was that Magna was claimed to be blocked N1, and they didn't do it. Spooooky. Scum hate spooky because it usually ends with them getting lynched. So they shot the obvious townie whose an incredibly strong player. It was arguing Gamma or Implosion to me, and this is settling it.

So you’re calling hoopla an obvious townie who is an incredibly good player?

Over someone who can guilty them?

Go on

[GreyICE]

You even went along with the roleblocked bit

And yeah, no shit, I didn't play into Stefan's rolefishing. I KNEW that scum would be rolefishing today. It was the dangling hook I was waiting for a fish to jump on.

It's really not hard to find the breadcrumbs to MOI:

Ugh. Reading Magna's logic, and it's unfortunately not bad. It's thin, but I see where he's coming from. In contrast, his setup spec is awful beyond all compare,

he should be locked up

for that sort of nonsense. But I'm not looking to

block

any lines of communication, so I'm not going to mock it too hard.

I think you're missing the

key

factor here, which is speculation about the scum having a roleblocker. As far as I understand it, scum roleblockers have dropped off significantly ever since it was shown that setups with a scum roleblocker were heavily scum favored. I don't think we should assume so quickly that they have one in setup analysis. While I'm not inclined to ignore cries of "I was roleblocked" completely, as it does happen, I don't think it's an excuse for everyone to have a

get out of jail free card.

[CheekyTeeky]

I suck at mech spec and the last few posts made my eyes glaze over so could someone break down the finger pointing like I'm 5?

Why is Grey protecting me instead of Mol?

[GreyICE]

So you’re calling hoopla an obvious townie who is an incredibly good player?

Over someone who can guilty them?

Go on

Isn't cop a weak role?
Since tracker is a garbage cop, I'd say tracker is much weaker still.

[StefanB]

Cheeky he is not protecting you.
Tracker is a role that is not that dangerous if the player is of course and MoI looked of course.

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh I saw he was blocking me. Are we mass claiming now?

[OnTheMark]

You even went along with the roleblocked bit

And yeah, no shit, I didn't play into Stefan's rolefishing. I KNEW that scum would be rolefishing today. It was the dangling hook I was waiting for a fish to jump on.

It's really not hard to find the breadcrumbs to MOI:

Ugh. Reading Magna's logic, and it's unfortunately not bad. It's thin, but I see where he's coming from. In contrast, his setup spec is awful beyond all compare,

he should be locked up

for that sort of nonsense. But I'm not looking to

block

any lines of communication, so I'm not going to mock it too hard.

I think you're missing the

key

factor here, which is speculation about the scum having a roleblocker. As far as I understand it, scum roleblockers have dropped off significantly ever since it was shown that setups with a scum roleblocker were heavily scum favored. I don't think we should assume so quickly that they have one in setup analysis. While I'm not inclined to ignore cries of "I was roleblocked" completely, as it does happen, I don't think it's an excuse for everyone to have a

get out of jail free card.

That’s what I get for skimming.

Damnit

Fucking mislynch me already

VOTE: Unvote

Just gonna find scum with what time I have left