In post 2173, MOMOMEN wrote:I don't consider that a crumb from the worst. Oxy might be scum who killed what thehy thought was a crumb and got a false positive.
This was my first reaction but now that he's explained a clearly town-motivated but completely abnormal and unexpectable strategy that explains how he played after finding the crumb, and it appears he also outed that he thought it was a crumb unprompted before he did it just now, he's basically locktown.
It's too out-there as a strategy for scum to think of it as a way of looking town, imo, so it must be town doing the town thing. Oxy is locktown.
Going roleplaying, this was a last check before I do so
"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle
In post 1983, Not_Mafia wrote:The ceejay wagon composition stinks, more votes on random pls
I was about to ask why you'd say this but then I realised it was you saying it and hence you'd be unlikely to explain so now I'm just stating how I would have wanted further detail on this in a sentence that slightly shades you in the hope that you might actually explain.
Did a skim on my phone and logged votes. Was making some notes but screwed up around post 1300 and deleted unsaved what I had. So that was really annoying and killed desire to take notes any further vice just catching up and going off memory.
I plan to read closer tonight when I'm on a pc and will elaborate on/refine asap the current reads I give here:
Town: Quick, MOMOMEN
Town lean: mutant, pintu
???: Not_Mafia
Need sorted: Sando, jjh, Oxy
Scum: Alonzo, ceejay (else Oxy)
In post 1912, mutantdevle wrote:Honestly though I've had a busy few days and mafia has not really been in my mind. I'll probably push you tomorrow if I feel like it but if not then probably Tuesday.
Tuesday, Thursday, what's the difference?
It's probably best I waited though because now I get to push ceejay on his Birthday, yay!
So first of all, the main issue I have with ceejay is that most of what he writes feels like commentary rather than any actual attempts to game solve. Even then, his slight 'game solving' of asking a few questions here and there leads to almost nothing. Now, I'm not just saying that in the sense that he doesn't really make conclusions or follow up on his questions, it's more to do with how most of them just seem pointless. This overall feels mundane and gives the impression that he's trying to look busy. I would give examples of this but honestly all you have to do is read his ISO with this in mind and you'd see what I mean. I don't think ceejay has actually made any meaningful contribution to this game.
Originally, I did think some of Ceejay's earlier stuff (particularly posts 207-259) was decent game solving. But when you properly look into it, there really isn't much going on and nothing is really achieved; especially if you put his overall effort throughout the game into context. At the time, these series of posts were Ceejay's standard. If that had continued, I'd feel a lot better about him. But in hindsight, when you see that that's the best he's done this game (in my opinion), the idea that he's town really begins to fall apart. From there, it's mostly shit. (The only possible exception would be his later case on me. Which isn't shit but I'll explain why that is scummy a little later in this post). And by now, his input is worth almost nothing. I mean, has he actually done anything day 2?
Part of this is probably that he rarely gives reads unless asked to do so. He isn't volunteering us anything to work with. In fact, he only solidly gives reads on his own accord
Their general attitude towards each other shows intent and not just the SvS kind. It reads like they are fighting each other earnestly and that most often comes from TvT.
Idk I could see this as comig from TvS just as easily
If my little theory is right, Pintu can't be scum.
@oxy may we see how your PoE goes?
*that's if you don't count his position on my wagon. I don't personally because he opportunistically jumped on me and I was heavily discussed at the time. But even then, 6 times is hardly anything to be proud of.
And even then its never very extensive. Every other time he has either been directly asked for reads or been purposely ambiguous about them (stuff like saying he's going to reconsider something but he doesn't update us on the conclusion of reconsidering). He's also been asked to give reads A LOT because he gives them himself so infrequently. So most of his content is either because he's been directly asked to produce it or simply commenting on whatever is happening.
I also feel like he's consistently been very opportunistic. On some occasions more so than others. His first one was quite small and not very noticeable at the time. This was when, upon hearing about the liability of N_M, he suddenly become very fond of having him policy lynched. He was encouraging others to join his position. But as soon as he saw that few people were interested he immediately backed off. That doesn't feel natural. IMO, a townie in his position would have first questioned why people weren't sheeping the idea before deciding to back down. What he did feels like too much of a snap. At worst this is opportunistic scum but at best it's another attempt to look busy early in the game.
Then his first vote of the game against me seems like it was done out of obligation. He had described me as scummy in the previous post and felt pressure to vote me over it - probably because he was the only person he had named as being scummy thus far in the game and there's that whole site meta of having your vote on your 'strongest scum read'. I'd argue that town doesn't really feel this pressure as much as scum do.
It didn't at the time, but now even his unvote of me pings me a little. It feels less like he thinks my posts were genuine and more hopping off an opportunity that gained no traction. But that comes from the mindset of assuming Ceejay is scum and knows my alignment which on the one hand feels like I'm being biased here but on the other makes me think that well this makes sense as him being scum. So take this point against him with a grain of salt.
My original suspicions of Ceejay grew roughly when his activity seemed to drop off. This is not because of his activity, it's because I found I was having to ISO him to remind myself of what stances he had only to find he didn't have many. By comparison, he looked much scummier compared to many other people who had earned a town read by that point. Since considering him as scum via PoE, I've been more critical of him and been able to see his lack of reads and opportunism more clearly. Just in time to have his next 3 incredibly opportunistically scummy votes ping me.
First of all, he votes for Icon despite
quite literally
never mentioning him before under the excuse he is just going to be sheeping MOMOMEN. Prior to this, he had never given a read on momomen and given a throwaway town lean to fumuki in post 248. I'd argue that 700 posts and 1 replacement later this read might need a little updating to be genuine. So why has Ceejay either been holding out on telling us that he strongly town reads momomen enough to sheep his every move OR why is he so willing to sheep someone he barely has a read on? To me, the answer is simply that he doesn't actually care about the reads he just wants to be on the wagon. Might I remind you, a wagon he has given no reason to be on.
Next is his vote on me again. Votes rapidly changed to me and he decided to jump on that bandwagon despite his most recent read of me claiming he thought I was town. Though admittedly that post was over 600 posts ago. But personally, that just puts us in a situation where he's either just opportunistically jumped on a town read or failed to give read development. Either way, it's scummy. He did push me a little at this time which I find contradictory to the claim that he was only on me because he was sheeping, but I explained that point in point 6 of post 1326. After this, once the heat on me was dying down, he switched back to Icon - still without ever having a read on him.
Now we get to day 2 and Ceejay immediately votes for MOMOMEN.
The very person that he was blindly sheeping for no good reason.
He clearly uses MOMOMEN as a scapegoat for blame of the misslynch whilst also tying him to the night kill. Despite there not being any clear indication of it, I also think this was 'opportunistic'. This is because I think it was clear by Ceejay's tone that he was expecting other people to suspect MOMOMEN for having 2 of his scum reads flip town. This is scummy in 2 ways as it opportunistically starts a wagon on MOMOMEN in anticipation of one but, more importantly, it also suggests ceejay knew what the night kill was going to be and had a plan for the start of the day.
From then on, he's posted very little. But here's a few quotes of his that gave me additional scum pings:
Spoiler: Quotes in a spoiler because this wall is ugly enough
Quick, cmon man, you're one of the more conf-town players in this game, let's actually make use of it and push people who are valid scumtargets please.
CJ - I personally don't think a Mom led scum kills the duckling, thoughts?
Yeah I'm dum. Thanks for pointing it out. UNVOTE:
Personally I'd argue that MOMO not leading the kill has nothing to do with MOMO being scummy for having 2 of his scum reads flip town so why this would cause Ceejay to unvoted if he truly believed his first point I don't know.
In post 1725, ceejayvinoya wrote:Glad to see something more progressive than back and forthing is happening.
VOTE: mutantdevle
I'll be more cooperative with everyone if this guy gets lynched today. Now lemme lurk in peace.
Whether or not I am alive has nothing to do with whether or not he is lurking and does not restrict how much effort he can put into the game. What, he's going to lurk because he can't get his own way with the lynches? Then maybe he shouldn't do so much sheeping. This just feels like an excuse for lurking.
I'll be more cooperative with everyone if this guy gets lynched today
. Now lemme lurk in peace.
why is your cooperation based on him being the lynch, exactly?
"Because he's scum" lols.
Seriously tho. I think he's sus.
Does he actually answer the question here or is it just me that thinks he hasn't and just used this opportunity to reaffirm a scum read? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't stop cooperating with the town because there is scum in the game...
Lurking isn't scum indicative, I'll be very hesitant in lynching there.
@Pintuchurrio you got a case on me?
So first of all, he doesn't become more active after this (though I'm not one to criticise for not following up with what I've said I'll do considering how overdue this case on ceejay is). Secondly, just because you think lurking isn't AI, doesn't mean you should be hesitant of lynching lurkers. Surely you should then decide whether or not you want to lynch lurkers based of your reads on what they have posted? Oh wait, I forgot that Ceejay barely has reads and the ones he does have are probably fabricated anyway.
So:
TLDR:
If you're one of the people who has been wanting for this case for a few days now you can damn well stop scrolling past this post, scroll back up, and read the whole damn thing. I haven't been avoiding my friends for nothing y'know
Most of what Ceejay posts is comments on situations rather than too much game solving.
Even with the occasional game solving he does, the majority of it is pointless and leads to nothing.
He barely gives reads on people and only mainly so when directly asked to - but even then he doesn't seem to stick to them.
He sheeped MOMOMEN who he barely had a read on into voting for someone he had never mentioned before and someone else who he also barely had a read on.
He then tried to shift the blame of Icon's mislynch onto MOMOMEN whilst also criticising how the night kill was also one of MOMO's town reads.
This was clearly a planned stance which suggests Ceejay knew what the night kill was going to be.
Since then, Ceejay has had some very shitty posts after coming under a bit of pressure and generally continues to have no meaningful presence in the game.
Obviously, you might not agree with every point I've made against Pintu. But even if that's to the extent where you don't somehow see his actions as scummy then surely you acknowledge he's not exactly the most valuable player?
So we have a player who has a high likelihood of being scum and not much to lose if we're wrong. Sounds good to me.
In post 2187, mutantdevle wrote:
Obviously, you might not agree with every point I've made against Pintu. But even if that's to the extent where you don't somehow see his actions as scummy then surely you acknowledge he's not exactly the most valuable player?
So we have a player who has a high likelihood of being scum and not much to lose if we're wrong. Sounds good to me.
VOTE: ceejayvinoya
Dude you are tunneling so hard that you even said my name instead of CJ
Your case is so good it seems that you KNOW he's scum!! Nah just kidding, that was really great, mutant.
In post 2077, jjh927 wrote:Nah your predecessor's take on slayer's was all I needed lmao
HAHAHAHA you can read right?
Why the fuck does the fact the two subs TR you mean at all other than that they TR you? They could be Scum with you or TRing you when they are Town and you are Scum or They could be Scum and TRing you as Town. Your comment is completely pointless.
I mostly just lurk now.
