Echo Bay Grits SEO [game over]

[Bins]

We now know that not everyone is town, which was probably always the overwhelmingly likely thing (yes, the post I made where I said we were all VTs was a joke) so, that means we have quite a few scum left. Generally, around a quarter of players are scum, so it makes sense that we may have 5 players on each scumteam; and yes, I am saying this is 2-sided multiball. Firstly, the flip of SnarkySnowman as "Echo Bay Grits" rather than just "Mafia" (which was the team name in Mafia Month) implies there is more than one mafia team. Secondly, the flavour implies this too; we have the bit where the munitions company sent people out, and they probably have agents among us, and are the second game. Obviously, Toby Determined and his Echo Bay Grits company are the second team.

How many scum are there? Without knowing all the roles, it's hard to guess, but I think it's likely to be 5 on each team. Around 25% of players being scum-aligned in any given game is normal. This isn't relevant now, but as we kill more and more scum, it's likely to become relevant. I'd also like to note here that since Echo Bay Grits have a traitor, the Ammunitions company probably does too.

So- who's scum? {Taly, Ausuka, Sando, Creature, Vaxkiller} probably aren't, {Bins, the worst, BBMolla} I kinda think are probably town. Literally everyone else are very possible scum and I think those players should probably do more things. In particular, I'm looking at the PRICKS bloc for remaining scum. They can join a bloc that prevents town from shooting them at no cost- what kind of scum wouldn't take the offer? {Wingedcatgirl, hebichan, TheBrie, Theta Alpine} are all COMPLETELY legitimate slots and I see absolutely no reason why shooting any of them should ever be a scumclaim- in fact, I think that if you shoot someone for shooting one of them, that's likely to make you scum trying to shoot a townie. We shouldn't be protecting scum from being dayvigged because some players wanted to have a shootout later than everyone else.
There are almost certainly scum in low-activity players, too, and that goes for ANY game, but ESPECIALLY this one. I reccomend looking in {Not_Mafia, light_ganski, hebichan, TheBrie (who is a borderline case w/ activity but I like her for scum anyway), Theta Alpine, katokashi, wingedcatgirl} because IMO they're great candidates for scum players.
But right now, if I want anyone dead, it'd be Srceenplay. The gimmick where he insists we're all town just feels like a fake scum thing to me. It's overdone and he has far more conviction in it than what I think any townie should realistically have to the point where it's totally unnatural. Like, is 398 a real thought? It's basically Srceenplay engaging with the game normally except he adds "OH YEAH BTW WE'RE ALL TOWNIES LOL" at the end. Like, why write this as town who legitimately believes that we're all echo bay citizens? It'd be interesting to see what he does when he realises that he was wrong about us all being townies, in any case.

wow please tell me ths is town

[Bins]

wait mom didnt die so like

[StefanB]

Mom has claimed BP before, and what you hope is town is Ausuka the scumkiller (with help from Vaxkiller)

[Bins]

Ohh hey!

When when it's resolved do that again and when I'm shown as town shoot Dav

oh I thought she said she'd flip here I misread


also snarky was a traitor
so

[Ausuka]

well yeah but I'm still AUSUKA THE SCUMKILLER

[the worst]

This is spicy. I kinda wanna try shooting Mom

[Davsto]

So, was shooting

Mom

solely to test the BP claim?

I don't even know your read regarding this.

No I think they're scum lmao

Hence why I got someone else to agree to shoot them after me to avoid largely wasting my bullet

[Vaxkiller]

DONT SHOOT MOM, will talk about this later.

[the worst]

intent to be patient and wait for vax

[Davsto]

Why not? Mom has been very scummy, with a lazy accusation of IIoA and then when I quite effectively put down that point it was entirely ignored and so Mom is still scumreading me despite it, random accusations of players being scum with justification either none or buzzwords, an incredibly bad kill in their first post without having even read much, etc.

The only possible defence is that killing such a potentially effective (Eddie Cane is known for being good as town I believe if Team Mafia is anything to go by) town player in the second post with no justification is too risky for scum. In my head I recognised this, and had the idea that Mom was, if scum, very likely a bulletproof - maybe it was even organised with their scumteam to kill Eddie since it could be done with much lower risk. The fact that Mom turned out to actually BP largely confirms this theory to me.

Randomidget, if you could do the honours. Or anyone really.

[Srceenplay]

shoot:mom

YOLO

[Vaxkiller]

Im still not really seeing it with Creature

I actually think this is kinda towny. Creature is obv town and if mom were scum they would just sheep that read and kill creature tonight. Looking through the past few pages and thier reads arent great, but Id like to do a small iso dive later tonight.

I mean I missed the BP claim, but why does that make them scum?

[Vaxkiller]

sigh

[Vaxkiller]

Well, thanks Screen. You saved me reading.

[StefanB]

Vax: Continue, may prove usful.

[Srceenplay]

Well, thanks Screen. You saved me reading.

You can’t use me as an excuse. Others won’t allow it.

[Davsto]

Im still not really seeing it with Creature

I actually think this is kinda towny. Creature is obv town and if mom were scum they would just sheep that read and kill creature tonight. Looking through the past few pages and thier reads arent great, but Id like to do a small iso dive later tonight.

I mean I missed the BP claim, but why does that make them scum?

It doesn't make them scum independently, but it somewhat counters the main argument for them not being scum (that they wouldn't make such a risky daykill as Eddie so quickly) to the extent I had it in my head that they were likely BP if scum, and so them claiming bulletproof makes it more likely to me. The read is not based on that alone. It's based on scummy behaviour, particularly how they acted with the IIoA towards me (I generally find that particular buzzword is bandied around a lot more by scum then by town particularly in regards to my particular brand of so-called IIoA).

[BBmolla]

Screen is town

[Ausuka]

Screen is town

Why's that? Because to me the opposite seems to be true.

[xyzzy]

Srceenplay has already used his kill for the day, so post 560 has been ignored.

[Taly]

shoot:mom

YOLO

1)

You've made no assertion at all about any of the BP claims.

2)

Thanks for ignoring me, and

Vax/TW

for being sensible, and

StefanB/Ausuka

for directing a post about you.

3)

You've already used your shot, so this is a borderline shitpost. 29

VOTE: Screenplay

If anyone wants a shot on

Screenplay

, I encourage votes here. I'm still pushing for the Vote Count idea even though

Sando

and

StefanB

are the only people that's recognized its existence.

So, was shooting

Mom

solely to test the BP claim?

I don't even know your read regarding this.

No I think they're scum lmao

Hence why I got someone else to agree to shoot them after me to avoid largely wasting my bullet

Why not? Mom has been very scummy, with a lazy accusation of IIoA and then when I quite effectively put down that point it was entirely ignored and so Mom is still scumreading me despite it, random accusations of players being scum with justification either none or buzzwords, an incredibly bad kill in their first post without having even read much, etc.

The only possible defence is that killing such a potentially effective (Eddie Cane is known for being good as town I believe if Team Mafia is anything to go by) town player in the second post with no justification is too risky for scum. In my head I recognised this, and had the idea that Mom was, if scum, very likely a bulletproof - maybe it was even organised with their scumteam to kill Eddie since it could be done with much lower risk. The fact that Mom turned out to actually BP largely confirms this theory to me.

Randomidget, if you could do the honours. Or anyone really.

Mehhh.... I can see the possibility and I didn't like the shot on

Eddie

, but I'm a bit torn with

Mom

.

Also, I don't think it's known whether or not being BP is AI? I highly doubt it is, so I'm iffy here.

~

I'm also feeling much better about

Ausuka

after 547; really detailed and I honestly feel like these types of posts are unnecessarily scarce in this game.

@Her

1)

Can you explain

TheBrie

scumread? I'm having a hard time reading multiple people in this game and I'm working to fix that.

2)

What makes you think

Bins and BBmolla

are likely town? I haven't seen a lot of content from

Bins

and I forgot

BBmolla

was playing this game...

3)

What do you think about the lurkers in general in this type of game? I agree with the idea that lurkers in this setup are more likely anti-town because it's survivalistic not to throw yourself into a fray where you could get killed.

I'm gaining a townlean on

Vaxkiller

, I do not want a shot here, they're looking beyond the surface level and I'd like him to continue his assessment of

Mom

.

I'm also a bit less certain about

Chickadee

after reading the past few pages, she's been present throughout this game but relatively ineffective.

Not_Mafia

also posted in other places before even daring to look at this thread. His debut post was unbelievably underwhelming. 553

1)

Do you have a strategy for the town to go about this gamestate, or do you agree/disagree with the ones stated? Why?

2)

Thoughts on shooters that are alive?

light_ganski's

most recent post aside from 545 was posted on April 27th.

So I think their activity is completely NAI.

[Taly]

Srceenplay has already used his kill for the day, so post 560 has been ignored.

*1v1s the moderator*

[light_ganski]

Okay I've skim-read the whole thread now, I'm gonna go through everything in detail here:

Pages 1-10

Neither town-reading nor scum-reading page 1 shots, if anything Eddies/Cheekys shots are

slightly

townie on the basis of recklessness but it all looks like RVS would in a normal game

Your reads are always horrible.

shoot: cheecky

No need for this shot on the basis of random stage shooting/reads... slightly scum-ish

I'm pro the PRICKS/non-shooting/townbloc idea merely on the point that it adds a level of control to who we end up shooting rather than leaving it to peoples whims, considering that there's 13 dead by the time I've got here we've already cut down some of the mess you'd expect from a game this size and to keep having people shooting semi-randomly is just lowering the number of people scum need to hit to win (I'm presuming they still have nightkills in this setup or have I missed something here?), since you're mostly hitting town with these shots.

Sidenote we should be keeping a FOS/votecount IMO

Circular protection might be easier to document moreso than votes, but I still want people pushing their town and scumreads as if we were thinking about someone to lynch.

Votes is fine to scumhunt, the protection strategy is just to impose some controls on the randomness, it has nothing to do with scum vs town, other than town preferring order while scum prefer chaos.

To an extent yes, we may be "thinning the crowd" with chaos shooting but I'm the fact that half these people have been shot without properly being analysed first suggests that coming out of RVS the strategy is anti-town.... I'd rather not shoot anyone than randomly hit a load of townies.

Eddie's right that Cheeky's Ari shot was really scummy, so I already feel townish on him.

Ehh... I like that he used his shot to form reads, but I don't think shooting randomly helps town at all, and I don't think he's working for town to congeal at the moment. I want him to respond to me more before I have a more solid read.

To what degree, and what warrants someone being killed early like this?

Eddie said they are scum.

So a sheep?

I'm guessing

Cheeky's

flip will give you more insight into

Eddie's

alignment?

I like this actually trying to solve the game early on without shooting > town-reading this.

Why are we trying to be serious and game solve this early?

Why not? Because you're scum and random shooting hits more townies?

I think taly also seems like scum

Yeah! Scum who's trying to break the game and minimize the casualties.

Can come from scum

Comes more from town though... scum wouldn't be trying to find strategies to hit more scum?

Idk. I think scum who don't want to get shot know that they have to be obvious town really quick. Or, that's what they expect they need to do, at least.

So your strategy is to FoS anyone who looks townie early on? I was always under the impression that if you think someone looks like a townie its more likely they're town than the reverse.

In this type of game,

early attention = B A D

Why state the obvious?

@Taly, let's make a townbloc mmmk.

You state you'll shoot anyone that shoots me, I've stated I'm shooting your shooter. As people join townbloc we create a circle of protection via mutually assured destruction. People without a shot left can't join, since they can't "protect" anyone else.

Keen?

Let me make sure of how this plays out-

We protect each other by shooting who shoots us.
People who don't join the townbloc and wavelength with the protection won't be apart of this.

My biggest worry is, how would we have a strong idea someone is town who assures protection/a shot against a shooter? It's a bit early to form reads.

Townbloc is sort of a misnomer, more a non-shooty-bloc.

Step 1: Person A says they'll shoot anyone who shoots person B. Person B says they'll shoot whoever shoots person A. Thus anyone wanting to shoot A or B gets shot themselves.
Step 2: Person C wants to join. A shoots anyone shooting B, B shoots anyone shooting C, C shoots anyone shooting A. Thus you have circular protection.
Step 3: Keep extending this out as people join.

If we decide that someone in the bloc needs to die, we just nominate someone to shoot them, I'll take that as first responsibility if required.

That said, I think this would work if we just all said "we'll shoot anyone that shoots into the bloc" without the whole circle thing, but I'm just spitballing at this point.

Fluff?

I don't think so...?
This gal's giving me bad vibes on the basis that he's scum-reading people trying to implement ordered, townie strategies.

Shoot: Gorkington

I'm going to be dead by the time I'm home from work tomorrow so I want somebody fun to talk to in the dead thread.

Have a good night everyone!

Can we PLEASE stop this anti-town play? It isn't helping

Why are you waiting for a flip?

Maybe gork flips scum.

In my opinion, a game this big implies at least the possibility of multiball, ergo an early scum hit shouldn't lead to a straight up town read.

I wonder if the random shots are more towny than scummy

I would have thought random shots were more scummy. At least they benefit scum unless they hit town by chance, and scum isn't going to shoot scum, but may very well shoot a townie under the pretence of randomness.

Or they may just not be thinking this through.

Coming out of the random stage they look more scummy than at first but I'd argue that they look as much reckless/poor townplay at least initially. Personally I'm more likely to read people that at townbloc-ing as more intelligent town on the basis that they actually want order and to work out the game but it's too early IMO to put anyone random shooting down as scum.

I've decided that the circular protection scheme is just too much admin at the moment, and I think just group-think is fine for now.

So I'm starting the Players Rightly Impressively Correctly Killing Scum club. Anyone who wants to join the PRICKS club just has to say that yes they want to join the PRICKS club. I'm going to assume Taly is part, and I'm also part. To join you must still have your Day 1 kill.

Rules:
1. You can only kill people who have shot a member of PRICKS, unless...
2. A majority of PRICKS members decide to kill someone (this could be inside or outside of PRICKS), in which case someone can shoot that person or will be nominated to kill them
3. Shooting outside of 1 or 2 will result in removal from PRICKS, although not being shot unless you shot into PRICKS.
4. You retain membership in PRICKS if you shoot within rules 1 or 2

Rule 2 will not come into effect until there are 11+ members of PRICKS or ~48 hours from now.

Remember reading this on my skim through which is why I requested to join in my first post... it's better than no strategy.

This isn't a townbloc. This is purely self-preservation.

Do you honestly think everyone who shot already is scum?

If not, you seem very happy to not include them into your 'town circle'. If it's a townbloc, you'd be letting people in based off of reads and/or gut. Not having a shot left.

Not so much, but they're useless in the circle since they don't have a shot anymore to offer protection to the rest of the circle. Maybe once we get critical mass they can join, otherwise they're on their own till tomorrow.

Agreed. If we can get PRICKS big enough it means we can at least act as a voting quorum would in an ordinary game and I think that's the best strategy we've got right now (NOT that I would necessarily say we should continue it into day two when we've got more evidence to go on, although keeping the element of collective control is probably a good idea. Allowing individuals to act on their own generally never leads to best results for the group as a whole and I would expect to see scum exploiting that fact).

Shoot: BBmolla

I realized something.

Shit wait, he's probably a cit

Exactly the point about not leaving it to individuals to act of their own. Let's have some collective unity as a town.

EBCs (my acronyms are better, mod) know that they win once they're the only faction, so if we're all EBCs then the game is over. You not realising this says you're not an ECB.

Stating the blatantly obvious, the post you're referring to as a scum-slip objectively isn't so why do it? Apart from to push wedges between people and set up targets for mis-kills? (This is an all round silly post from either alignment)

Recommended shots:
McMenno, Chickadee, Momrangal, Not_Mafia, Davsto, Austerity, randomidget, Kokichi Oma, SnarkySnowman, Vaxkiller, TheBrie, Harambey180, StefanB, light_ganski, Theta Alpine, katokashi, Archwing, wingedcatgirl, Gammagooey, Bins, ooba

I do get the point of just shooting people who haven't posted as opposed to those who have in the early stages but it does minimise the information you end up with and your proposed shots list is far too long to even have a majority chance of hitting scum, even if by pure dumb luck all the scum were in it. Try developing some actual reads based on posts and tell people what you're thinking, worst case scenario then if you're town is that you're wrong but other people can glean information from what you're thinking. Super long lists like this make me think you want to LOOK like you're looking for scum without putting any effort in to solve the game.

Everyone is an echo bay cit.
it’s the apocalypse and it’s the last man standing wins.
Game broke you are welcome. Continue with your killing.

Are you scum or just nihilistic?

My bet is scum.

Cool.

I wake up to see shots fired and quite a few people NOT following an ordered strategy, and all 6 of the people killed during this time flipped town.

>

There's very minimal possible reason as to why they'd be shot this early, and there's no answer better than the other for the most part. WIFOM.

*If there's anyone that has any decent argument behind the motivation of a kill; then explain it to me, because I'm failing to find reasoning behind people dying.

>

We did not get ANY valuable reads, or discussion from these killed people, because someone just shot randomly without really engaging.

Numerically, it's more difficult for town to win now since we've had plenty of townkills and very little reference over them.

Does anyone STILL want to keep "thinning the herd"?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking sense. At the moment the most townie person in this game.

[Davsto]

Also, I don't think it's known whether or not being BP is AI? I highly doubt it is, so I'm iffy here.

Oh I don't think that BP is alignment indicative independent of other factors. It's just that it counters the main reason for discounting Mom-scum and also makes sense with their actions.

Maybe it's just sorta the fact that my theory for Mom!scum involved them being BP and they turned out BP that's making me see it as a bit of a confirmation so maybe it has the potential to be a little biased. I still think they're scummy regardless. It's just a final little bit that settles it for me yk?

[Davsto]

@light_ganski - have we played together before? Your name and avatar seem familiar but I can't place which game exactly and the ones my instincts said you were in you weren't. Any chance you remember?