Star Wars (Spoilers)

[DirtyDishSoap]

Disney's new cash cow is the best summary you can give Star Wars. It'll be bled dry until everyone forgets or hates it and tossed into the bin. It's unfortunate because I've been a huge fan of the series since I was a kid.
The Last Jedi is probably the last Star Wars movie I'll ever watch. It was terrible. Poorly written from start to finish which inadvertently retconned a bunch of established canon, even from the Force Awakens.

Rei is a completely unlikeable character. She's a Mary Sue that's great at everything, could do no wrong. Luke wasn't the best character introduced but he had a lot of character development, and we saw him grow as a person whereas Rei is just thrown in and is immediately put into Godhood. One of the most bland and boring characters.

I don't see the purpose of Finn other than Disney saying "Hey! We can be diverse!"

Poe I kind of like as a character but there's also just no development with him. I thought they were going to do something with him in The Last Jedi when random purple hair girl had a dumb plan that was going to get everyone killed from start to finish, but nope...Leia thought it was a great plan that decimates their only remaining fleet.

Snoke was a missed opportunity. Showed off amazing power only to be killed off immediately after by the dumbest way possible.

Ren is a lesser version of Anakin in the prequels. Because we need more of that.

And Luke's character was tarnished. He redeems the 2nd most evil person in the galaxy that has massacred millions if not billions of people, never giving up on him, only to see a slim future of what might be with Ren and he decides to murder his nephew in his sleep only to have second thoughts mere moments before delivering the blow? What...WHY?!

Thanks Disney. George Lucas wasn't the best, but I'll take him over this travesty.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Disney's new cash cow is the best summary you can give Star Wars. It'll be bled dry until everyone forgets or hates it and tossed into the bin. It's unfortunate because I've been a huge fan of the series since I was a kid.
The Last Jedi is probably the last Star Wars movie I'll ever watch. It was terrible. Poorly written from start to finish which inadvertently retconned a bunch of established canon, even from the Force Awakens.

To me it was the best of the post ROTJ movies. It went in a completely unexpected direction that still makes sense for the future of the series and I appreciate that.

Rei is a completely unlikeable character. She's a Mary Sue that's great at everything, could do no wrong. Luke wasn't the best character introduced but he had a lot of character development, and we saw him grow as a person whereas Rei is just thrown in and is immediately put into Godhood. One of the most bland and boring characters.

She's definately not great at everything. She has obvious relationship issues where she longs for her parents even though they abandoned her. She wants Luke as her mentor and he won't mentor her. She's probably in love with Finn, someone she will never have. And her Resistance is on the verge of collapse. So I'd say she has plenty of faults.

I don't see the purpose of Finn other than Disney saying "Hey! We can be diverse!"

That's typical of someone that is probably a white male. For years Star Wars was criticized for not being diverse enough and when they have a black man and white woman as their leads they are criticized for being too diverse. This is just a case of people wanting to find something to compalain about.

Poe I kind of like as a character but there's also just no development with him. I thought they were going to do something with him in The Last Jedi when random purple hair girl had a dumb plan that was going to get everyone killed from start to finish, but nope...Leia thought it was a great plan that decimates their only remaining fleet.

He's not a main character. He's kind of like the Chewbacca of the original series or the Jar Jar of the prequel series. Not every character is going to have the same amount of development.

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Oh yeah because Emperor Palpatine had so much development in the original trilogy. It was only in the prequels that we saw more development. They wanted to focus on Kylo Ren and I feel that's a good decision.

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Not even remotely the same. We new what was happening to Anakin. We don't know what's going to happen to Rey in Episode IX.

And Luke's character was tarnished. He redeems the 2nd most evil person in the galaxy that has massacred millions if not billions of people, never giving up on him, only to see a slim future of what might be with Ren and he decides to murder his nephew in his sleep only to have second thoughts mere moments before delivering the blow? What...WHY?!

Because you shouldn't kill someone because of what they might do in the future. It's the classic should you kill Hitler when he is a baby question. Luke was taking the high road and it bit him in the butt but at least he has morals.


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The prequels weren't bad but the sequels are better.

What was unexpected about it? The battle of

hoth

crystal planet? The fact that the First Order has all this manpower after 30 years? The only unexpected thing you could toss at me is that Snoke is snuffed out, from out of the blue. So far, this trilogy is heavily borrowing from the original trilogy.

1. That'd be great if the big reveal wasn't "Your parents are nothing." And this doesn't really affect her overall, nor is it her prime motivation...The story barely focus's on this expect to detract tense moments. I almost expected Ren to say "SNOKE WAS YOUR FATHER!" Apparently your forgetting Chewie, Finn, Han, and pretty much everyone else she meets too in terms of relationships. She doesn't have relationship issues. Lol.

2. It's not "her" resistance. If anything, it's Leia's.

3. None of those don't tackle the Mary Sue issue. You should look up the term.
You mean the gal that called out Star Wars for being racist because Darth Vader is voiced by a black man and portrayed as a white man underneath? There's always been diversity in Star Wars, it's a matter if you actually take the critics serious or not. That's the only time I remember anyone ever griping out about a racial or diversity issue in the franchise. Even then, this is a clear moment in American history where we have this racial division and it's affecting the movie industry, the video game industry and heavily influecing politics, my race is non-factor, this is fact.
In this case though, I can't compare Finn to Lando. Even though Lando's screen time was way less than Finn's, Lando has managed to have more character. Which is why I'm calling out on Disney's bullshit pandering.

Oh yeah because Emperor Palpatine had so much development in the original trilogy. It was only in the prequels that we saw more development. They wanted to focus on Kylo Ren and I feel that's a good decision.

Just...No.

Not even remotely the same. We new what was happening to Anakin. We don't know what's going to happen to Rey in Episode IX.

Annnnnd my comparison goes over your head.

The prequels weren't bad but the sequels are better.

Guess I'm a minority, the prequels are bad, the sequeals are pretty terrible too. They're action packed and look pretty though so I guess...Hooray for lowered expectations?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Plus Kylo Ren can lie about it *gasp*!

If you think JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson have any originality to them, or the capability to take a risk, you'd be dead wrong.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I mean, I'd probably accept that a lot better than a nobody that beats a trained Sith by Luke, then Luke himself in combat in a very short span of time.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Plus Kylo Ren can lie about it *gasp*!

If you think JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson have any originality to them, or the capability to take a risk, you'd be dead wrong.

you seem fun

A total riot.

I mean, I'd probably accept that a lot better than a nobody that beats a trained Sith by Luke, then Luke himself in combat in a very short span of time.

I mean, I think her early proficiency with the lightsaber was one of the weaker parts to TFA, but Ren was pretty grievously hurt and it had previously established she was generally a very good fighter. And I'd argue that the fight scene between her and Luke wasn't really a two-way fight. He wasn't fighting her, she was fighting him. This was as she confronted him about attacking Kylo Ren, and the physical was tied to the verbal/emotional component.

Anyway, why should she be some family member? Obiwan wasn't someone famous's family. Anakin (outside of sorta crazy fan theories) wasn't. Like... having everything flow through two families is pretty limiting.

I would concede the argument initially if she had not beaten Luke, but it still stands to reason, someone that is practically untrained and is a street brawler with little to no refined style, then it should stand to reason that a guy that has beaten Vader in a duel would wipe the floor or wouldn't give the upper hand to someone like Reys backstory. Does that make sense?
I mean, in Anakins case, there was a story told by Sideous and his mentor, Plagueis in the prequels (yes...I'm referring the prequels...) that he and Plagueis were trying to achieve immortality and in Plagueis case, breaking the rule of two. They conducted a ritual that back fired and the force answered with Anakin. He's basically a byproduct of Darth Sidious and Plagueis tampering into the force. That's my memory on it at least.

Plus Kylo Ren can lie about it *gasp*!

If you think JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson have any originality to them, or the capability to take a risk, you'd be dead wrong.

Last Jedi whether you like it or not is easily the riskiest star wars film ever made by a HUGE margin.

If that you mean by being an incredibly poorly written film with glaring plot holes that tosses away any consistency with the previous films, sure, 100% correct. When I say that they take a risk or be creative, I can go in one direction off the bat. Rey turns to the darkside towards the middle/end of the film.
Boom! No one would have suspected it.

I'll be more than happy to completely breakdown the Last Jedi and why it's a pretty terrible film. Not just a terrible Star Wars film, but a terrible film in general.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You're confusing risks with inconsistencies.
It's established that there is no "divine" lineage in the Jedi order outside of the Skywalker line. Disney throwing out the expanded universe saw to that.
Luke being jaded for no other reason than to just be jaded is terrible writing and it goes against everything he's learned in the original trilogy. Like...Why? How is that a risk?
Interpreting what the force is, I'll admit, a great way to explain it and I'll give a +1 for the film for doing that because it's way better than the prequels midiclorians or however you spell that nonsense.

[DirtyDishSoap]

1. The opening scene with Hux and the Resistance leaving the planet, you can clearly see the only ship leaving the planet. Why didn't Hux shoot the ONLY ship that's leaving the planet? They can scan for life on the planet and ships, so they have the ability to know, even then from a tactical point, why shoot the base that is now empty, and is immobile vs a mobile target containing all the Resistance leadership? Is Hux incompetent? That whole point didn't make sense.

2. The Dreadnought is the worst designed ship ever. It doesn't have shields for whatever reason. It's surface weapons can't hit Poe because "He's too small and too close." ???? Wut...The Death Star had this capability and that is way bigger than the Dreadnought, so how does this glaring flaw escape The First Orders notice? This ship blows.

3. The bombers from the Resistance are equally worse. How in the world are they this fragile, like tissue paper, and travel at the speed of smell. I mean...One minute they aren't there but then it cuts in and they are, but when we see them their slow as fuck, and half a tie fighter crashes into one and destroys (2 or 3?) other bombers?

4. How is the laws of space is ignored in this? Sound and lasers aside, but the fact that people can operate in open space like the gal in the bombers hanger with no visual gate without losing oxygen or instantly freezing to death is just a slap in the face to Sci-Fi fans. After the Marry Poppins scene, they let in Leia, FROM OPEN SPACE and nothing is instantly sucked out, no loss of oxygen, nothing. Like...Wtf? It's like Rian doesn't understand how space works.
5. Why did they throw away Ren's primary motivation set up in the Force Awakens? Like...Snoke instantly berates Ren and tells him his mask is stupid, when previously he was perfectly okay with it because he wanted to be like Vader...So why toss this subplot out?

6. Where did the Knights of Ren go?

7. Speaking of Hux's incompetence, why didn't Hux order one of the Star Destroyers to just intercept the Resistance by going into light speed ahead of them? Like...This is a rather big plot hole and this is the only thing keeping the film going on at this point. How can you be this bad at being a General?

8. Whats the point of Finn and Rose in this film? Their entire subplot doesn't advance the overall plot at all. You can remove this section of the film and nothing changes at all. Even then, their plan hinges on the fact that there is only ONE tracker. And why is there only one to begin with? How does Finn even know about it when he was stationed on the Star Killer base? How does he know it's a tracker to begin with when he's just a janitor? What the hell is going on in this film?

9. Why is Luke's character just butchered in this? Like...Everything he learned in the trilogy is just tossed out for no readily reason. He basically wants to kill his nephew because he "saw something that could be" and goes to MURDER HIM IN HIS SLEEP! You're telling me, this guy goes to redeem someone thats Hitler incarnate who murders children and committed genocide, but when he see's a obscure future, he goes to murder him? Wtf? "Snoke already got him." Sidious had Vader you twat, that didn't stop you before!
One of the most optimistic characters is turned into this lurch. Mark Hamill over a string of interviews had expressed why he didn't like this direction.
Another thing - "How did you find me." There's a God damn map that tells everyone where you are!

10. Snoke was tossed away for no reason. He was a plot device for Ren, and that's it. A force user that seemed more powerful than Sidious was just killed off without any character development. Like...Why!? An all powerful character can't see subtle twitches from Ren because ?????? Like...Sidious wasn't even this overtly stupid.

11. Captain Phasma is worse than Boba Fett. I don't understand the boner for these two characters but they suck.

12. General Holdo is just as worse as Hux. She berates her top pilot and refuses to tell anyone of her plan and the film sets her up as a villain, only to toss that away and have her sacrafice herself as sort of a "redemption." She sets up this whole tense moment where Poe is questioning her leadership, rightfully so, and then there's the eventual mutiny because Poe suspects that Holdo is just going to get them all killed, which her plan nearly does anyways. If Holdo actually told Poe of her plan, none of this would have happened because the moment Leia tells Poe the plan he basically says "Oh, that might work!" Like fuck...Holdo sucks so hard.

13. Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the term if you're unfamiliar with it. She's a terrible character, unlikeable and unrelatable in every sense. Compare strong female leads in the past like Ripley from Alien. She has the build up to be a strong protagonist and not just "great at everything" from the start. Completely amazing build up. Rey is just tossed in and is amazing at everything she does from the get go, and everyone likes her. She's even more proficient in the force than Luke is for no discernable reason in a very short span of time. None of this makes sense!

14. How did Luke grab a physical object (The dice), project himself lightyears away, give that object to Leia, only to disappear later? And then die anyways like a bad flop? Like...Even the film doesn't follow it's own rules.

15. Speaking of Dice, why did Luke have almost no reaction to Hans death when he learns of it? It's as if he doesn't give a shit about anyone. Why did they butcher Luke?!

16. The bombs were a garbage concept. They ignored the laws of space, and the film explains for no reason why they just flopped right onto the Dreadnought. Were they magnetic? Well that would explain the no shields and shitty concept of the ship, but why build a like that in the first place?! The Y-Bombers were waaaaay better, why get rid of those ships?!

I'll think of more later, I know I'm missing more.

Haven't really spell checked this, sorry.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You're welcome to if you want.

Listen - at the end of the day, you like whatever film you want, good or bad. I like Hostage, the film sucks, but it's fun for me to watch. Battle for Los Angeles had pretty much 0 plot, but it was a fun film to watch.

I'm a fan of Star Wars though, I enjoy the lore and story and the characters, but the newest iteration is just...terrible. If you're new to the series, you'll enjoy it, it's fun, my girlfriend enjoys it even though she never watched the original trilogy and probably won't.
I'm just tired of seeing the praise this film is getting when from an actual cinema standpoint, it sucks.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Pretty much any Star Wars movie, or any sci fi movie for that matter, can be picked apart. It's called suspension of disbelief. Star Wars is about having a good time for 2 hours, not about having an academy award winning screenplay. A lot of the OT fans don't like TLJ because it's different from the other movies, unlike TFA which was a lot like the OT. They just need to get over it.

Ok...So what films exactly can you break down on why they don't work? Interstellar for example. Amazing all around sci-fi film. The music, the plot, the characters, this was a great sci fi film. I'm not asking for something arbitrary like "There's no such thing as space wizards!" Point out some glaring plot holes in the movie(s), or answer the ones I already pointed out in the above post.

Star Wars - Space samurai mixed with a wild west basically, my belief is already suspended but it's not going to be outright broken if the plot is inconsistent and broken and it doesn't follow it's already established rules. I can't immerse myself in a film like The Last Jedi when it's blatantly taking a dump on every film before it, including The Force Awakens. Does that make sense on why I hate this movie?

I don't get it, I expressed why I didn't like this film, and broke it down point by point as to why it doesn't make sense or why it makes it bad. You originally defended it by trying to point out why so and so is good, but the moment I show you these glaring plot holes or overall weak characters it's "well, every Star Wars and sci fi movie can be picked apart." Uh...? The movie is open to criticism. The Black Panther is open to criticism. Every movie should rightfully be criticized on how or why they are bad films or what the films are specifically lacking in. The Last Jedi had a decent soundtrack. Not anything I'd write home to mom about, but the musical scores were solid. The visuals were great, best in the series. And that's pretty much where my praise of it ends.

So no, I'm not going to get over it. As I said, I'm a fan of Star Wars, but I'm not going to blindly defend terrible films just because the name "Star Wars" is in it or because Disney took the reigns on the franchise.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I think The Black Panther was pretty bad, but everyone put this movie on a pedestal before it's release for...Culture reasons? I'm not going to get into it, it's just stupid.
I haven't seen Infinity War but I heard that was bad from a few friends and I'm not sure about Thor Ragnarok.

I'm seeing a trend, where in the video game industry, you have these publishers who buy out developer companies and turn them into a subsidiary, and then tell these subsidiaries they have a deadline to meet every year and to pump out incoherent, buggy messes until people get fed up with seeing those games and then the company gets absorbed. Think the film industry, or at least Disney, is mimicking this model.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Ehhh, another time I'll tackle that film. The action was fun to watch but I just didn't really get the plot of the movie or how it tied itself to Civil War.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Don't think my age has to do with much of anything or how I form my opinions but 28.

As for negative bias towards sequels and what have you, I don't think that's the case really...I enjoy the Witcher series, all three of them. The first one had some stale gameplay but the other 2 were phenomenal in just about everything. Metal Gear Solid I think is the first video game that got me into story driven gameplay. Didn't like the 2nd one as much, but Snake Eater was top notch and I poured hours into hours in that. Loved 4 despite it being one giant cut scene but it tied up loose ends. Phantom Pain I disliked for a plethora of reasons.

Cinema is pretty much the same thing. I enjoyed both Sin Cities. I liked both Guardians of the Galaxy. I liked Diehard 1 and 3 but hated 2, 4 and 5. So on and so forth.

[DirtyDishSoap]

To be fair, you said "any sci fi" film.

Disney has the rights to the franchise, true, does that automatically make whatever films they make, good? No. Should they already follow the original in terms of cannon? I'd think so. If these were stand alone films and not direct sequels, I'd have almost no problem with it.