Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)


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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:33 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

In post 373, verylazy wrote:I'm unsure what you want me to go into more detail about; the post is pretty self-explanatory. Wilky was moderately awkward and scummy to the point where I'd like to wagon him, but before I did that, I wanted to get an answer from Tchill, which I still don't have.
It's self-explanatory in that it's basically shade, especially since you're vote hasn't moved since page one. It also implies that you have a higher scum read than Wilky, but haven't voted for them.

/coughs/
In post 373, verylazy wrote: if this is new, it's town; if it's an alt, it's scum. unsure which rn.
/coughs/

Can you pinpoint in your own words why Wilky was moderately scummy? Who among the player list is a higher scum read than Wilky? Is MWNN a higher scum read than Wilky ATM?

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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:34 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

Oh look! We leveled up to a Goon. :3
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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:35 pm

Post by Wraith »

Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
In post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
Very suspicious post
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"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs

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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by Wraith »

Don't see anything in the verylazy wagon whatsoever, they are just lurking and that is NAI on D1
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"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs

"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

VC 1.03
Tchill13 (4):
verylazy, Impossibear, davesaz, Wraith
wilky (1):
Tchill13
Ouroboros (1):
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Ramcius (3):
wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21
Nero Cain (2):
Dunnstral, MariaR
MariaR (1):
Nero Cain
Ventriloquist (2):
Ouroboros, hebichan
verylazy (1):
Kaede Akamatsu
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE (1):
ManWithNoName
ManWithNoName (1):
Ankamius

Not Voting:
Ramcius


With
18
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10
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Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)
Last edited by GuyInFreezer on Tue May 08, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 1:24 pm

Post by hebichan »

I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.

I dunno, I feel vent more at the moment, but you could case him if you like. I could probably be swayed.
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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 1:32 pm

Post by Wraith »

In post 427, Wraith wrote:Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
In post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
Very suspicious post
Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

He uses some rather
absurd
leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?

I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.
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"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 1:33 pm

Post by Wraith »

I'll stay where I am for now but I'm definitely down to switch to a Vent wagon if it gains traction compared to a TChill wagon.
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 430, hebichan wrote:I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.
Scum players don't play up scumhunting on day 1? I disagree., I don't think the explanation for your read is a good one.

In post 431, Wraith wrote:He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Absurd leaps in logic aren't more likely to come from scum than town. If anything it's the opposite. While you may be correct, I don't think you make a good point here. Town is allowed to soft defend people too, by the way.
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:12 pm

Post by Ventriloquist »

I'm trying to check the game daily when I have time but taking more of a backseat because I don't have time to write throughout the day. I didn't see the game taking off at this speed and it's easy for a hydra account to criticise a lone account for lesser activity.

Ouroboros' attempt to create pressure with very minimal reasoning is not really giving me much to work with, although I can't say I'm surprised that you want to pull apart a new player's behaviour. It unnerves me because you say you are keeping cards close to your chest whilst simultaneously defending a player that has given us no reason to believe they are town at all, Tchill.

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

I also don't see how different my activity is from players that also havent had time to add much substance yet, like Hebichan & REALMEN. I will add my reads to the discussion as and when I sense them, until that point any probing on my part will look forced.
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:17 pm

Post by Wraith »

In post 433, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 430, hebichan wrote:I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.
Scum players don't play up scumhunting on day 1? I disagree., I don't think the explanation for your read is a good one.

In post 431, Wraith wrote:He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Absurd leaps in logic aren't more likely to come from scum than town. If anything it's the opposite. While you may be correct, I don't think you make a good point here. Town is allowed to soft defend people too, by the way.
My problem is more the dichotomy between the player he is respectively defending and attempting to cast suspicion upon. TChill's claim was, at least IMO, unquestionably more suspicious than wilky's. Yet he is really stretching to find reasons to excuse TChill while suspecting wilky.
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"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by hebichan »

I should restate, I like his scumhunting and I think he has valid points.

I'm not seeing the scumread, so you saying my read is bad is like, okay.

have fun?
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:29 pm

Post by Ventriloquist »

@Ouroboros, you were suspicious of my thought process on Tchill (by suggesting he could be jester, i.e. misconstued to suggest we shouldn't vote for him ) yet you're not scumreading Tchill, a bit of an alignment disconnect don't you think?
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

At no point in this game have I said anything about your activity levels, though I do suppose you may be intentionally scum lurking. I mean you're lurking, that's not why you're scum.
Ouroboros' attempt to create pressure with very minimal reasoning is not really giving me much to work with, although I can't say I'm surprised that you want to pull apart a new player's behaviour. It unnerves me because you say you are keeping cards close to your chest whilst simultaneously defending a player that has given us no reason to believe they are town at all, Tchill.
You're correct I'm not giving you much to work with, but I assure you that's nothing to do with you. I have several strong reads for who your buddies are and want to see what they do before it becomes 100% clear that you're going to be the lynch today. As a result I am holding off on several of the stronger points that I want to make.

You're also playing the newb card and implying that I'm pushing you because you're new, which is blatantly untrue.

'defending a player who has given us no reason to believe they are town at all' is how scum describe their scumreads, not town.
My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.
Interestingly, MWNN was willing to vote most of the people that I voted but he waffled then made an excuse for not voting you: what do you think that shows?
also don't see how different my activity is from players that also havent had time to add much substance yet, like Hebichan & REALMEN. I will add my reads to the discussion as and when I sense them, until that point any probing on my part will look forced.
It will 'look' forced or it will 'be' forced? You're again making this an activity issue when it clearly isn't.
@Ouroboros, you were suspicious of my thought process on Tchill (by suggesting he could be jester, i.e. misconstued to suggest we shouldn't vote for him ) yet you're not scumreading Tchill, a bit of an alignment disconnect don't you think?
Not in the slightest: 'this person is acting weird and scummy -> I think they are jester' is an extremely scummy thought process.
Typical newbplay is to assume anything weird or different is weird or different because it's scum, but you seem to already know that he's not weird or scummy because scum: why?
You are also trying to convince ME that I am scum and that is extremely scummy too: look at the phrasing of this.
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:37 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

In post 424, Ankamius wrote:RC

All I really want to know in light of that is how much weight you put behind the points on him you've already stated.

I might be willing to go back to sheeping, but I want to be sure that it's worth not gunning for a slot that I think is highly likely to flip scum.
If you think that MWNN is scum it should at the very least intrigue you that MWNN followed me on several votes but then got cold feet and waffled when I tried to vote Ventriloquist.
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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:40 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

In post 398, Dunnstral wrote:This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.
What's sketchy about it, dunn?
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:04 pm

Post by ManWithNoName »

I got tired of following a town read rather than pursuing my own reads, especially when the Ventriloquist read came down to "He's inactive".

Just because you're obvtown, doesn't mean you are always right, RC. You should have learned that by now.
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:06 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

When did the Ventriloquist read come down to 'he is inactive'? At what point in the game did I comment on Ventriloquist's activity before he suggested that was the reason for my read?

That's a pretty hefty misrepresentation of my play coming immediately after I just pointed out that my read on him was independent of inactivity.

One might even think that you have an agenda that benefits from discrediting my scumread on Ventriloquist!
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Post by ManWithNoName »

When I said he's barely a blip on my radar, you said responded with. "That's the problem."

That's when I stopped sheeping you.

If you thought I meant something different, I was saying it was an inactive slot.

I might not have been clear before that, I now realize.
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:13 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

In post 350, ManWithNoName wrote:
In post 347, Ouroboros wrote:VOTE: Ventriloquist

Actually can I get team support here this intrigues me
Why Ventriloquist?

He's barely a blip on my mental RADAR right now.
In post 355, ManWithNoName wrote:
In post 352, Ouroboros wrote:That's the problem, man with no name :P

Or at least, it's one of them.
That makes alot of sense, actually.

I'm not ready to move my vote just yet, though.
In post 366, ManWithNoName wrote:Wraith
Ankamius
Dunnstral
Impossibear
Ventriloquist
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

So, by the way, here is my issue with Ventriloquist vote right now. These slots all fall into the same "barely a blip on the RADAR" place.

I would like to see anything resembling actually playing the game from all these slots. Maybe Dunnstral does not belong on here.
In post 441, ManWithNoName wrote:I got tired of following a town read rather than pursuing my own reads, especially when the Ventriloquist read came down to "He's inactive".

Just because you're obvtown, doesn't mean you are always right, RC. You should have learned that by now.
Also, here's your read development on Ventriloquist.

You point out that you don't really have a read on him
I point out that it's scummy that you don't have a read on him
You agree but point out that there are other people that you don't have a read on
you start talking about how I'm not always right and spinning my read as being 'he is inactive'
When I said he's barely a blip on my radar, you said responded with. "That's the problem."

That's when I stopped sheeping you.

If you thought I meant something different, I was saying it was an inactive slot.

I might not have been clear before that, I now realize.
I said that purely to get you aboard the wagon and not because it was my personal reason for the scumread. I had already brought up other stuff earlier.

I'm also not mandating that everyone sheep me because I'm super hot and sexy and wear cowboy boots, but I found the specific manner of your not doing so strange, feeling the need to point out that there were other lurkers, it's just a very strange way to approach the wagon. If you are town you can look back and understand why I think your approach is weird completely independent of the fact that you didn't vote with me, particularly given lots of other people didn't vote with me but I didn't scumread them.
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:14 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 440, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 398, Dunnstral wrote:This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.
What's sketchy about it, dunn?
The votes by Ankamius and Hebichan:

Ankamius voting for Ventriloquist while 'still catching up' - supposedly sheeping you:
In post 391, Ankamius wrote:UNVOTE: verylazy
VOTE: Ventriloquist

I'm still catching up, but I'm far enough to have a strong enough townread on Ouroboros that I'm comfortable sheeping them for right now.
Followed by Hebichan basically lashing back against Ventriloquist saying that T-chill is worth considering (Which isn't scummy itself, and is a sentiment other people have been sharing), on top of what looks like pretty icky timing to join the wagon
In post 395, hebichan wrote:VOTE: Ventriloquist

Yeah, don't really like how hes shading t-chill as "worth considering there either.
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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by Ouroboros »

Like: if you agree with me that Ventriloquist is doing nothing and needs to start doing something, shouldn't you at the very least be enthusiastic about wagoning him to force him to do something?
You're also voting another person on your another blip on the radar list, so idk.

Ankamius is several percentage points above rand and I totally agree with the read that Hebi has so idk what your issue is Dunn.
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by hebichan »

Why is it icky timing?


There's no wagon that's being countered? I've been sheeping oro for awhile here.

Like, you take issue with my read but your read is just like vague statements that could mean anything.
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:19 pm

Post by ManWithNoName »

I agree Ventriloquist needs to start posting, that being said, I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI. The last time I voted off of someone that was doing that, I got burned, that's why I am pushing Realmen.

Ventriloquist has enough votes without me to pressure him into voting, anyway.

Like, fuck, this is a large anyway, if I were scum with Ventriloquist, why wouldn't I vote him for the town cred anyway?
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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:19 pm

Post by ManWithNoName »

He had enough votes, at least. I didn't realize he was down to just two until just now.
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