Product Placement Mafia (Game over!)

[northsidegal]

It's 1 AM.

[northsidegal]

is there something that I am missing?

yeah, conversation really started at around 328.

[Brian Skies]

Mollie, start with 338.

[northsidegal]

like, i've

been

doing things, i don't understand what you're trying to get at when you ask me why i'm not doing things right now.

[Titus]

Occam's is that Pine = Lightning rod

he’s a claimed roleblocker Titus

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

Titus voting Pine reminds me of me so much. Titus will probably be offended to be lowered to such a station as Vaxkiller thinking, but there are so many times where I KNOW i caught scum becuase of info I've found and I am so wrong... luckily everyone ignores me!

Titus I've seen you do fucking awesome in some games , but lately it's been pretty lack-luster. I was scum reading pine too, but for him to be scum here would be pretty outlandish. More than likely he would have had to plan this out with his scum team, to not kill anyone then frame someone.... to what end? If he frames a someone then he will be suspect, on top of that other sources are likely to come forth with claims on the contrary, on top of that he would ahve likely had to plan it in advance which would mean the scum would choose to not kill.... I cant image a scum team doing that. Right now im thinking Pine and NSG are both town and brian was shot.

This post is convoluted.

@Mollie Fire is my biggest TR atm.

[Alisae]

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

I think talking about the redirect now is a distraction?

[Brian Skies]

Maybe that's not standard.

But I still find the claim to be a potential scum fakeclaim.

After all: easy excuse as to why Brian doesn't die at night (scum are scared of the BP) and lets scum make it impossible to verify Pine's roleblock is actually what stopped the kill.

Really??? I havent been here long and I have been informed and not informed.

Vax, what are you trying to say here?

[Brian Skies]

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

This sentence makes no sense to me as is, but I think I know what you're trying to say.

However, please explain to me why you think Pine the evil Lightning Rod steals the invention from you and then admits to receiving it?

[hyung]

nsg if you flip town i promise i will slavishly scour your iso and put together a case using it

I would much rather not get lynched in the first place. I'm not so egotistical as to believe that my reads are always perfect right now - what I do believe is that, given the opportunity, I could win the game if left alive.

got up to about here and I need to sleep now but this just reads so town. tell me that isn't one of those statements that is just a natural town mentality but it's hard for scum to think to fake. in any case I vibes so hard with it.

[hyung]

nsg if you flip town i promise i will slavishly scour your iso and put together a case using it

I would much rather not get lynched in the first place. I'm not so egotistical as to believe that my reads are always perfect right now - what I do believe is that, given the opportunity, I could win the game if left alive.

VOTE: titus because I didn't like her posts and vote end of day 1, and her lightning rod suggestion out of nowhere just felt like scum testing the waters in how to enter the role conversation and also just fake feeling in general.

in an optimal situation where player slots are abstract concepts and play/reads don't factor into it, lynching nsg is probably the right play. but considering it's harder to believe nsg will flip anything but town the more she posts, I would much rather take advantage of the free day phase we gained and lynch a slot much likelier to be scum. rather than equalizing the score.

would still vote reck, and would actually much prefer to lynch reck now that I've thought of it again. something about his play around nsg is still unsettling and his day 1 posting felt really scum motivated on multiple angles. but realistically not sure if there's any support for it unless he gets guiltied (Google glasses maybe? please?)

[hyung]

also the idea of going into night 2 with only red on the dead list is pretty exciting too but don't consider that as having factored into any opinions at all.

[Pine]

Occam's is that Pine = Lightning rod

he’s a claimed roleblocker Titus

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

Titus voting Pine reminds me of me so much. Titus will probably be offended to be lowered to such a station as Vaxkiller thinking, but there are so many times where I KNOW i caught scum becuase of info I've found and I am so wrong... luckily everyone ignores me!

Titus I've seen you do fucking awesome in some games , but lately it's been pretty lack-luster. I was scum reading pine too, but for him to be scum here would be pretty outlandish. More than likely he would have had to plan this out with his scum team, to not kill anyone then frame someone.... to what end? If he frames a someone then he will be suspect, on top of that other sources are likely to come forth with claims on the contrary, on top of that he would ahve likely had to plan it in advance which would mean the scum would choose to not kill.... I cant image a scum team doing that. Right now im thinking Pine and NSG are both town and brian was shot.

This post is convoluted.

@Mollie Fire is my biggest TR atm.

So...not Occam's rusty pocket knife, then.

You're going with Occam's Flint-knapped Spearhead. Classic.

[CheekyTeeky]

Push away NSG, what can I do for you today?

[Untrod Tripod]

I will be limited access for the next seven days. I will have internet access, but if you need something please PM a request to me (this includes official votecounts) to ensure that it gets dealt with ASAP.

[Titus]

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

I think talking about the redirect now is a distraction?

It's not. The existance of the redirect strongly suggests either myself, Fire and Pine is scum but only one (or Fire plus Pine but that is remote). I'll explain.

Fire claims that he intended to give me Google glass. Either a) he's lying and submitted a straight submission to Pine or b) he was messed with.

A is unlikely given Fire's early vote on Vecna. Plus directly submitting to Pine isn't too ridiculous as to warrant claiming his action was interfered with given the glass "leashes" somehow".

So we turn to B. If Fire was messed with that suggests either 1) scum assumed I would be targeted and wanted all actions targeting me to visit Pine, 2) scum assumed Pine would be targeted and wanted all actions targeting Pine to visit me, 3) scum wanted to directly control Fire's action and just used the redirect at random.

B1) This means I would be town and Pine would be scum. I am a popular investigation target. Framing me or preventing clears on me benefits scum. Plus, they'd get any positive benefit sent to me.

B2) This dictates a bus driver. This is remote.

B3) This is everyone is town setup. This also has scum using a redirect and gaining nothing from it.

Recapping most likely to least likely.

I) Scum used a redirect to frame me/protect Pine.
II) Scum did suboptimal move.
III) Fire lied.
IV) [Impossible to me] Scum bus driver protect me, attack Pine.


Now to finish catchup.

[Titus]

I'll add:

NSG flips Town: We know Brian is Town (or at least not Mafia), and that his BP is expired, and that scum have to waste an extra kill just to take out someone they already tried to kill once

Incorrect. Pine could be a lightning rod.

[Titus]

we have a dead scum already
ill take playing the long game of having more info / verifiable claims later over "oh gee gosh please dont lynch the vt on the off-chance she's not lying about her role and wasn't actually roleblocked"

My point is that my lynch doesn't actually provide any more space for verifiable claims given Brian's claim. If someone claims, say, doctor later in the game, my having been lynched has a pretty much negligible relationship to the verifiability of that claim.

Also, lol at "off-chance".

you're missing the point -- we don't know that the roleblock is a guilty. we don't know it's not. we do know it's SOMETHING.
it's something that tells us something. and your lynch can provide that information.

brian skies wont ever know if he was actually shot or not until he dies or is endgamed. we can't get info about him except by lynching him
but we CAN get info about what happened last night by lynching you

it's simple

Okay, I'm lynched and flip VT.

The information we get about what happened last night is....

Hm.

What, exactly?



Well, you could assume that it means that scum shot Brian, but there could still be another protective role out there.
"Information lynches" are garbage.

Like, if you're thinking that from an objective standpoint (not taking into account reads) it's equally probably that pine roleblocked me as that Brian was shot, I still utterly fail to see the purpose of lynching me.

Town.

[Titus]

Yeah, the most damning evidence is that in NSG were Town, she's AT LEAST acknowledge the rationality in what Reck's saying. Instead she's trying to handwave it away

This is classic scumflailing

FIREBRINGER do I put these glasses on or not? If they fry my brain I will be holding you responsible

Do what you want, it won’t hurt you but I kind of don’t care either way. I meant to give these glasses to people who I thought I might need to keep tabs on and ur not really one of those

And it's not shocking your action misfired? Did you crumb at all your role/visit choice?

[Titus]

or scum saw the no kill and pine jumped in with a bs claim to force brian to claim

Really? How do you propose we deal with Pine tomorrow if she flips town?

as i said it's entirely conjecture. so i dont propose anything

i have a feeling that pine/brian and the Truth of What Happened will sort itself out after a nsg flip eventually

I think scum are using you. NSG and Brian's flips do zero to sort each other and NSG bleeds town. Meanwhile, Pine and Fire's flips do sort each other.

Pine is practically lolcatting atm.

[Titus]

Btw if it wasn’t clear I like my {Brian, Pine, Fire, Mollie, Gammagooey, Firebringer, Cheeky, LLD} Towncore with the exception that Reck joins it if NSG flips wolf and I have 1 secret SR in there that I want more time to read and see how their reads develop and progress.

Your towncore has a near lock scum in it in at least Fire or Pine. :'( I still need to do the VCA but I am tentatively ok with the rest for now.

[hyung]

@fire are your inventions all pro town actions, specifically the google glass? or can it be theoretically misused by scum. you can ignore this question if necessary.

[Titus]

i wont do that but thanks for the suggestion

gentle reminder: meta is trash

2017's Paragon disagrees.

2017’s Paragon is a Cylon. We don’t have the same kind of beep boop ability to sift mountains of data to eke out reads.

Anyone who says different is either arrogant (and likely wrong) or is selling something.

This is what you antagonize NSG over and don't bother to scumhunt? Your last several posts have been random potshots at me or NSG and buddying Reck's obvtown nonsense.

[Vaxkiller]

Mollie is scumreading him. Lol.

@brian

I mean, ok, you got me, I DO tend to look at the game with a "Vaxkiller-centric" view where alot of my thoughts tend to revolve around my interactions with people and not others. It's def a problem I need to fix at some point.

@mollie But that's not my only problem with the post. My thoughts are in some blueish color.

okay so here we go:

looking through vecna's iso I think pine, alisae, reck, fb, lld, gamma emerald and cheeky.

super weird reactions to vax, hyong and musicdelve. vecna keeps mentioning musicdelve as a lynch option but never delved into why. he did the same with vax but then voted vax at a time when I wld expect to see some distancing. he also says, "hop on the all town wagon choo choo" to imply that he is town and it is almost like he wants to take credit for a scum preflip on vax. that is how it reads to me. wifom yadda yadda but I am still taking note it cos vax wasn't in danger and just seems an odd way to treat a wagon that you know is on town.

Could you expand on your reasoning here? Vecna was scum. Hyung was on his way to be lynched. Pine and maybe 1 or 2 others wanted my lynch but taht wasn't getting traction. No matter what hyungs alignment is, why would Vecna push scum!Vax here? It's not WIFOM, it makes NO SENSE

he mentions hiplop/titus, gammagooey and penguin peripherally, there is likely scum in 1 of those 3.

I hate when people say "there is likely 1 scum in this group" It's lazy and feels scummy. Just say you think there are all scum.

with hyong it almost reads like coaching? it cld be coaxing, and I can't figure out which 1 so *shrug* I am just taking note.

Hyung is coaching/coaxing who?

this was the eod wagon:

vecna - firebringer, bbmolla, pine, gammagooey, vaxkiller, hyong, titus, penguin, reck

4th, 5th and 7th are where I tend to look for bussing and that is gamma, vax and titus. <---- here there be scumzorz

So scum are always the 4th 5th and 7th (not 6th people, 6 is a good place to be!)

so my scumpool is vaxkiller, titus, gamma, musicdelve as of rn, but I still have more reading to do.

I can understand mutante, but the rest of these reads are awful.

having said that, lynching ngs is the mechanically correct thing to do today. I wld love to hit scum and I hope we do but I feel weak about them flipping scum. I am reading the flail as town but eh, I am a sucker for aTe.

[Titus]

-No kill

-You were still voteparked on AA9 at a photo finish deadline lynch on scum

-You also won the votecounter role, which has fabulous utility for scum to manipulate things

-I roleblocked you, which would explain the stopped kill

I think you’re scum for these reasons. The fact that you lurked through D1, had scummy interaction with Vecna, and are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the points against you is icing.

It’s not that you don’t want to be lynched, or that you have a strategic difference, it’s the legitimacy attack on the points that is the problem. I mean, hell, you just did it again by boiling my case down to “Disagree with Reck”

Winning the votecounter role suggests NSG is town, not scum. We voted for it remember. Scum piling on to get the votecounter makes no sense and is low utility. It robs them of voting, which can swing momentum on a wagon.

AA9 slot could still be scum. This assumes AA9 is town to shade NSG. Second, AA9 hasn't posted much, if at all, since I got here. An SR on that slot and not joining the Vecna wagon makes sense. While I think Mollie's numbers when looking for bussers are arbitrary, I would expect bussing on the 3-End votes on the wagon as well.

You roleblocking NSG makes sense a little but that forces a Fire scumread which makes little sense given yesterday. Basically if you roleblocked stopping the kill Fire is also scum likely lying to justify giving glass to you.

Does Glass have something to do with votes?

[Alisae]

Pine claimed rber...yet scum wanted him to have the glass over Fire? Why would scum redirect all actions from one town (Pine) to another town (me)? That makes no sense.

I think talking about the redirect now is a distraction?

It's not. The existance of the redirect strongly suggests either myself, Fire and Pine is scum but only one (or Fire plus Pine but that is remote). I'll explain.

Fire claims that he intended to give me Google glass. Either a) he's lying and submitted a straight submission to Pine or b) he was messed with.

A is unlikely given Fire's early vote on Vecna. Plus directly submitting to Pine isn't too ridiculous as to warrant claiming his action was interfered with given the glass "leashes" somehow".

So we turn to B. If Fire was messed with that suggests either 1) scum assumed I would be targeted and wanted all actions targeting me to visit Pine, 2) scum assumed Pine would be targeted and wanted all actions targeting Pine to visit me, 3) scum wanted to directly control Fire's action and just used the redirect at random.

B1) This means I would be town and Pine would be scum. I am a popular investigation target. Framing me or preventing clears on me benefits scum. Plus, they'd get any positive benefit sent to me.

B2) This dictates a bus driver. This is remote.

B3) This is everyone is town setup. This also has scum using a redirect and gaining nothing from it.

Recapping most likely to least likely.

I) Scum used a redirect to frame me/protect Pine.
II) Scum did suboptimal move.
III) Fire lied.
IV) [Impossible to me] Scum bus driver protect me, attack Pine.


Now to finish catchup.

I read this and I got a headache.