Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ramcius]

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Huh? What vote changing you talk about? Open my ISO and tell me what vote changing i've done? I voted Maria in RvS, i voted Wilky, then selfvoted as a joke, that's about it. I just feel like you try get easy lynch and don't like my wagon dissolving

You changed your vote to wilky because Ouroboros called you out for it, you then changed your vote to yourself. It's convenient that it's suddenly a joke that you self voted now, even though others picked up on how awkward it was.

awkward, yes, but it was my way to show how ridiculous my wagon was - a guy with biggest wagon (according to RC he was l-2) looking someone else to take his place under lime light and RC's vote which was more like reaction test than real vote

[Ouroboros]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

I do believe that is the best way to phrase it. He reads in a way that he's not trying to game solve, he's just trying to not give away any information. That's enough to earn a scum read from me.

This sounds more like a policy lynch than a scum lynch.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

@ManWithNoName

Do you still hold your stance that Jungle isn't trying to game solve, despite the vote on Impossibear?

@Jungle

Is it safe to assume you're voting for your scum read i.e Impossibear?

Ghost

[Impossibear]

The train of thought from Impossibear on Wilky and Ram is a lot like my own. Can you talk to me more about the Maria/Nero interaction? Because we're seeing opposite things there.

I'm giving Ank a few hours to deliver on that promise for content and if they don't I'm moving my vote back there.

At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.

This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.

I agree. The tempo of the wagon is suspicious to me, considering Ventriloquist is kind of a non-entity.

ETL, if there's any way for me to make you feel more comfortable in this game, or my jokes funnier so that you can appreciate it, please let me know. I'm very sad that I failed to do my one single job of making people like you happy. Please, share with me how I can better serve you.

Mafia is srsbsns. I just don't find your shtick all that appealing. I'd rather you actually do something constructive.

@RC: Who is this joker?

Of course, if you're just scum trying to pull a fast policy mislynch on a meme alt that isn't even scum then rule the game because you're known to do that then go suck a chode :^)

I'll admit this made me chuckle.

there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.

I'm not following why we're discussing how many PRs are around...?

In general, not a fan of Wraith's posting

at all

. I can't quite put my finger on the words... forced? Fake. Specifically his comments about Kaede's claim.

Happy Scumday Ank!

While I appreciate the long-overdue attempt at content, there wasn't actually much "content" there, tbh. I'm gonna need more explanation on those reads, not just how strong they are.

Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.

I've actually posted about this in mafia discussion, but basically I prefer to townhunt first as scumreads take much longer for me to develop. The other reason is because being able to work together with your town reads makes for a very strong town that is tough to breakup outside of straight killing the members of the townblock, and can spell doom for the scumteam.

Which thoughts in particular are we "polar opposites" on? Let's talk about them.

I still lean townish on the overall analysis, but I want to get this sorted out sooner rather than later since it would do a lot to prevent me from gaining paranoia on your slot later in the game.

This excuse has been used against me by scum so many times it's getting quite old now. If you're genuinely paranoid about me, talk to me. Don't just use "paranoia" as an excuse to push a wagon on me without actual reasoning, cuz I'll tell you right now, I'll expose the shit out of that ruse.

I have very good reasons for wanting to lynch Ventriloquist

Jingle says you're actually quite good at scumhunting, but I'm going to need more than that. I don't understand the Ventriloquist wagon, and the speed of it makes me concerned.

Ugh... I'm only on page 18...? I'm gonna have to come back to this later.

ETL

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

I do believe that is the best way to phrase it. He reads in a way that he's not trying to game solve, he's just trying to not give away any information. That's enough to earn a scum read from me.

This sounds more like a policy lynch than a scum lynch.

Ghost

yes

@ManWithNoName

Do you still hold your stance that Jungle isn't trying to game solve, despite the vote on Impossibear?

@Jungle

Is it safe to assume you're voting for your scum read i.e Impossibear?

Ghost

and yes

:goodposting: from Ghost

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

ETL, if there's any way for me to make you feel more comfortable in this game, or my jokes funnier so that you can appreciate it, please let me know. I'm very sad that I failed to do my one single job of making people like you happy. Please, share with me how I can better serve you.

Mafia is srsbsns. I just don't find your shtick all that appealing. I'd rather you actually do something constructive.

@RC: Who is this joker?

Of course, if you're just scum trying to pull a fast policy mislynch on a meme alt that isn't even scum then rule the game because you're known to do that then go suck a chode :^)

I'll admit this made me chuckle.

RC doesn't know who this joker is because obviously I wouldn't be telling him because obviously thats the whole point of making a meme alt dedicated to him!

I mean, he can guess, but good luck because I'm deliberately playing to obscure my playstyle unless I slip


you're going to grow all white hair if you take mafia so seriously every game. stress and stuff. I heard it does bad things for your health. why not have some fun? chillax, hang around, talk shit, then lynch scum.

this game isn't good enough for you to take it so seriously. Look at the playerlist!

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

ETL struggling to keep up with a game that grows only like 3 pages a day? making fake wallposts responding to every single bullshit post almost every page attempting to look townie? i know this bitch reads faster than that!

why the fuck you lyin'?

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

hey if that was offensive let me know and i'll tone it down

but i know it isnt

[Impossibear]

VC 1.03

Tchill13 (4):

verylazy, Impossibear, davesaz, Wraith

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ouroboros (1):

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (2):

Ouroboros, hebichan

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE (1):

ManWithNoName

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Not Voting:

Ramcius

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

MWNN

's vote is probably the easiest, lamest copout vote I've seen all game. There's literally no content there. It's null af, especially considering how much other content there is to analyze so far. Lynching that slot would be a waste - let the vig take care of them.

Not feeling tchill anymore, tbh. I know Jingle really think he's scum, but 1) I really don't like the wagon company and 2) Wraith is worse.

VOTE: Wraith

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Dunnstral, is this vote solely based on their interaction and nothing else? What about anything else going on in the thread?

p-edit: I have a life, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

If you ever call me a bitch again, not only will I replace out and blacklist you, but I will do everything in my power to get you banned for it. Don't do it again.

ETL

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

VC 1.03

Tchill13 (4):

verylazy, Impossibear, davesaz, Wraith

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ouroboros (1):

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (2):

Ouroboros, hebichan

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE (1):

ManWithNoName

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Not Voting:

Ramcius

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

MWNN

's vote is probably the easiest, lamest copout vote I've seen all game. There's literally no content there. It's null af, especially considering how much other content there is to analyze so far. Lynching that slot would be a waste - let the vig take care of them.

Not feeling tchill anymore, tbh. I know Jingle really think he's scum, but 1) I really don't like the wagon company and 2) Wraith is worse.

VOTE: Wraith

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Dunnstral, is this vote solely based on their interaction and nothing else? What about anything else going on in the thread?

p-edit: I have a life, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

If you ever call me a bitch again, not only will I replace out and blacklist you, but I will do everything in my power to get you banned for it. Don't do it again.

ETL

sorry honey, it was an endearing term, please don't replace out

yeah i'll stay away from questionable language, you have my MAN's word and honor on it

i know you're scum though, so

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

see here's my dilemma

i think ETL is scum

so i need to push her

but ETL thrashes around a lot as scum and makes us feel all guilty about it if caught

what if ETL is town? then she'd get so pissed that she'd replace out

but if she's scum, I have to trust that she wouldn't go so low as to do the same and threaten to replace out if caught correctly

I draw the line at ETL threatening to replace out but if she does that as scum that would be really frowned upon!


a MAN needs help. what do?

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

PS:

if i stop pushing ETL even though I think she is scum and then she is actually scum, I am gamethrowing


REAL MEN may be funny but REAL MEN NEVER GAMETHROW!

[Impossibear]

Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

This was re: post 427. I have several issues with this.

1) Saying "Very suspicious post" directed at a player that Ouroboros just voted, without any reasoning, or any vote for that matter, is just really really scummy.

2) Ouro is clearly the universal townread here, I don't really think there's any argument there, and Wraith comes in and sees that, and follows along to appear townie and to avoid Ouro's suspicion.

3) This post in particular comes off very fake to me, like it was an afterthought, like, oh I better explain myself before I cop heat for it. It's a survivalist mentality rather than simply providing his thoughts.

4) The content itself is not only vague but generalized. For instance:

He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

- What was the leap in logic?
- Which two cases? Where is the example?
- What is the narrative he is painting?
- What is the assumption regarding Occam's Razor here?
- What is the WIFOM?

It's a bunch of buzzwords thrown in to look busy.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming?

He tries to make it look like these are the only two possibilities for tchill; it's a false dichotomy.

And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.

There was literally a VC two posts prior. Why does he need the VC? Why the feigned caution on a 2-man wagon?

I'll stay where I am for now but I'm definitely down to switch to a Vent wagon if it gains traction compared to a TChill wagon.

And this? It's D1, with 11 days left. This is just gross to me. We're not even close to that point in the game where compromise votes/wagons are a consideration.

Ouroboros

I need you to look at this slot please.

I will admit I agree with some of the observations about Ventriloquist that you made in 438, but I don't agree they necessarily come from scum. I think he's engaged you in a townie way and addressed your points on him, as well as discussed his thought process. I specifically don't think the shift from thinking a person acting weird may be a jester in a large theme, where the only thing newbies generally know of jesters is that they are explicitly not normal, is really all that scummy. Even I had that thought when it came to players like REALMEN. There's a difference between "weird/scummy" and "outrageously anti-town", which I could see as a thought process coming from Ventriloquist wrt tchill. Not to mention the fact that he didn't stand out at all until you started raving about him. Even looking more deeply into his responses yielded nothing but reinforcement of my intial read.

My primary concern here is the massive amount of support for the vent wagon that seems to be coming out of nowhere. And yet there's only a few actual votes on him... look at what is actually happening in the thread, Ouro.

Ank said he would vote him. Wraith said he would vote him. I'm not 100% on vent being town but I really don't see it as scum like you do, and Wraith is straight up scumtelling all over this game. Please look at him.

Also, (and I'm guilty of this pretty often myself and it always gets me into trouble), generating reads from associations before we've even had a single flip is just... bad. All I'm asking you to do is take an objective look at your reads and how they've been formed, and specifically, looking at Ventriloquist and Wraith on their own, minus MWNN. Until we have a flip, you cannot make these kinds of connections with any sort of accuracy.

I'm also not mandating that everyone sheep me because I'm super hot and sexy and wear cowboy boots, but I found the specific manner of your not doing so strange, feeling the need to point out that there were other lurkers, it's just a very strange way to approach the wagon.

But truly, this is the way I would expect people to try gelling with their townreads, by discussing what they don't agree with. Simply because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are scum. The point I'm making here is that you've got yourself wound up in what is beginning to look like a huge confbias pre-flip association circle of deathtunnel, and I'm trying to get you to really evaluate your process so we can come to a consensus that is logical and makes sense.

if you agree with me that Ventriloquist is doing nothing and needs to start doing something

<snip>

Ankamius is several percentage points above

Ok but... Ventriloquist has done more thank Ankamius? Legitimately look at their ISOs together up to this post....

I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI.

Yes. Agreed. But like I said, if we have a vig, this should be there shot. What do we gain from lynching a slot that has offered no real information, with no associations, and no real reads to follow? Nothing. It's one of those slots that just needs to be erased because it's useless.

I can understand the reaction to my posting, by the way. I'm just going to have to be better going forward.

I still think Realmen is the best vote at this point in time. Ventriloquist can be on notice, but Realmen has actually been scummy (I will admit again, amusing) but scummy, overall.

You lost my vote of confidence with this post.

This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.

Agreed. I'm assuming by your vote that you believe this is explicitly

not

typical of his townplay?

Ventriloquist's post seem more like they care about keeping suspicion off themself instead of scumhunting and in a way that feels like scum that thinks it can reason itself out of being scumread.

Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.

Either you don't remember me as well as you think you do or you're purposely ignoring the fundamental core of how I play the game.

And how exactly do you play the game?? You asked me about my process, I think it's only fair you discuss yours.

As for TRs, i never give those, unless someone do or say something that makes them locktown in my eyes, otherwise all my TRs are subject to change

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

This is a very simple thing to confirm. Has anyone done this yet? If not, and I have time when I finish catching up, I will see what I can find.

Honestly he kind of reminds me of zzzx, as far as how he understands the game (or misunderstands it, even). Can't tell how AI it is, but.. maybe I'm too trusting. I have a lot of townreads and I think I need help working through the list.

--end of 19--

ETL

REALMEN

You're wrong. Or scum. It's one of the two. If you're town, figure it the fuck out and get your shit together. Posting some weak ass reads list and then saying "ETL is scum" without an actual argument is bullshit and I'm not going to respond to nonsense.

Not only are you not providing any actual content, but you're poking a bear that you obviously know will make noise if you keep it up. To me that seems like you simply want to piss me off in order to distract from something going on in the thread.

You can fuck off.

[ManWithNoName]

i could hop on wilky wagon but i want to resolve tchill first

Here's a post that, going back, strikes me as scummy actually because of context in general. Verylazy has not offered a read on either wilky or tchill, just a desire to "resolve" tchill and a willingness to join a wagon later. I find it odd that a tchill case is not accompanied with this. I've seen scum, in the past, push a lynch without sorting anyone and line up the ability to switch lynches. I want to give a brief nod to Anonymous Ghost, hopefully without spewing too much what my main is, and say that when rereading just now, her comments in a previous game's mod thread were what sparked this idea.

VOTE: VeryLazy

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to lurking so I don't totally give away my main's identity because that's the whole point of this alt.

Anony, if you remember the game and figure it out from that, please don't tell people, I just want to continue in semi-anonymity.

[Wraith]

Impossibear if you read my post there and those were the questions you felt were unanswered in it, I really don't know what to say. I really don't care to break down every little aspect of my grammar and syntax.

And also when I made the post GIF was editing in the VC. It was up after I submitted

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

REALMEN

You're wrong. Or scum. It's one of the two. If you're town, figure it the fuck out and get your shit together. Posting some weak ass reads list and then saying "ETL is scum" without an actual argument is bullshit and I'm not going to respond to nonsense.

Not only are you not providing any actual content, but you're poking a bear that you obviously know will make noise if you keep it up. To me that seems like you simply want to piss me off in order to distract from something going on in the thread.

You can fuck off.

see thats what I love about ETL, awesome as town, awesome as scum, but loves to fearmonger people who are on to them and make them scared to lynch their slot as both alignments

for personal reasons incase they replace out or get mad

i feel like i'm playing with two RCs in one game! double the RC double the fun!!

/shrug

alright honey, I know how to deal with you

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI.

Yes. Agreed. But like I said, if we have a vig, this should be there shot. What do we gain from lynching a slot that has offered no real information, with no associations, and no real reads to follow? Nothing. It's one of those slots that just needs to be erased because it's useless.

hey, i make the game fun and happy, alright? shouldn't you be advocating for the vigging of people who are

actually trying but remain useless despite how much they try

?

chillax, have a pizza, it's just a game, and an easy one at that~

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

VOTE: verylazy

let's manwagon this eevee instead!

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

Impossibear|ETL: This is a reachout to you ETL. If you want to play in a serious business mafia game, hurry up and /in for the partition game currently in Mini Theme queue. There's zMuffinMan, Wisdom, and other better players there that your actual tryharding would be put to a better challenge and time better spent there. Unless of course, for some reason you hate Wisdom, then, uh, that's sad but I hope that's not the case.

[Ouroboros]

VOTE: verylazy

let's manwagon this eevee instead!

bad

catching up again

[Ouroboros]

I thought Jungle was katsuki but this doesn't feel like Katsuki so

[Ouroboros]

Okay so I'm locking in here

Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum

VOTE: Ventriloquist

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Okay so I'm locking in here

Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum

VOTE: Ventriloquist

*sigh* Didyou even attempt to understand my post? I am trying to work with you.

[Ouroboros]

Verylazy is town being wagoned by scum as a counterwagon to scum!Ventriloquist

The fact that people are defending him says a lot
Impossibear comes in with 'scared of wagon speed' even though I've been hard pushing them for days and have gotten absolutely zero results from anyone.
Also the fact that the way that Jingle talked about me as coming across as town with no skill is always a scumpost.

*sigh* Didyou even attempt to understand my post? I am trying to work with you.

I read all your posts, I just didn't get the things from it that you apparently wanted. You should have just bussed Ventriloquist.

[Ouroboros]

Please don't skip reading these - I have a lot of discussion I missed and would like to engage with people about several posts, plus I put a lot of time and work into reading this game in-depth rather than skimming so...

I actually skipped reading those, until I actually went to read those, and REAL MEN says that ETL is scum!

Why is real men helping scum powerwagon town if you are scumreading ETL?