Micro 800-A: Double Day Unlimited [Endgame]

[northsidegal]

Day One, Lynch One

Votecount 1.8

Cogito Ergo Sum (1):

Not_Mafia

Katyusha (4):

RedFlavor, Not_Mafia, Pine, singersinger

singersinger (1):

Cogito Ergo Sum

Pine (2):

Not_Mafia, Katyusha

Ausuka (1):

Not_Mafia

RedFlavor (2):

Not_Mafia, Pine

Not_Mafia (2):

Pine, Ausuka

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral, Plotinus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-05-20 01:00:59)

Mod Notes:

[Katyusha]

the more i look at that votecount the more i want to vote for singer but i really want pine to be lynched today

[Dunnstral]

I'm not excited for a Katyusha lynch

[Dunnstral]

I do

I'm glad that both of us got town pms

You're voting Katyusha at l-1 right now

[Katyusha]

dunn can we be mason buddies this game

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

"both of us" = RedFlavour & CheekyTeeky in that quote, Dunn.

The post was made on the 19th and choosing games was finalized the 21st so I’m pretty sure it was meant in a general conext. I’ll admit I haven’t read the pt besides that screenshot being discussed in our team’s pt some time in post game, but that was the basis of Lycan’s argument there. It makes sense to me as a general thing anyway.

You really don't need any context besides what's in the screenshot - it literally talks about threats, PRs, nightkills and buddying. Yours on its own could make sense as a general thing, but if you read all of them, it's clear it's not a general thing.

the more i look at that votecount the more i want to vote for singer but i really want pine to be lynched today

Do it! We've got 2 lynches.

[Katyusha]

I guess? I feel like it’s Lycan’s point to defend anyway what I told you is basically what he said. If he follows up I’ll let you know

VOTE: Singer

Probably won’t go anywhere since I’m getting lynched but what the hell lmao

[singersigner]

@CES...why do you think I'm scum?

[singersigner]

@teams whose teammates didn't ego post...why not?

vote: Red Flavor

[Plotinus]

Okay, I'm here and rereading some.

Okay, I spent a few hours catching up on this game and typed too many words because I didn't have the sense to post it as I was going along. I'm going to try to organise it legibly somehow.

Spoiler: A tale of two accidents, regarding Ausuka nearly hammering Pine by mistake and singer putting Pine at L-1 unannounced

I was thinking about Ausuka's 87 that when she says she almost hammered Pine by mistake, I think as scum she probably could've just actually done that? I don't think she would've got very much pressure for it.

Singer has hardly been pressured for not announcing putting Pine at L-1 because I think most of us feel like we could've made the same mistake? She apologises for it in 94 and says that if she were scum she would've been more aware that it was L-1, but how would that awareness have changed her behaviour?

As scum, she makes the exact post she made knowing she can get away with it.
As town, she makes the exact post she made but it's an accident.

So I don't like singer's tongue in cheek aside there. Saying that this null behaviour makes her more likely to be town feels like a grab for towncred that isn't warranted.

Spoiler: A linguistic take on Katyusha's 101

I don't like Katyusha's 101. I don't know if I'm understanding it right or not so let me say why I'm getting out of it and someone can point out where I misunderstood if I did.

Katyusha says she thinks it isn't scummy for Pine to be kind of mediocre because his reputation is that he's amazing as scum and mediocre as town. Te thrust of the post here is defending him/talking about leaning town on him.

But then she says "Wouldn't shed a tear if this is town" which doesn't belong in a post about townleaning him; it belongs in a post like "well he's kind of scummy so the wagon is okay but i wouldn't mind to much if he's town after all" not in a post about "I think he's town but I wouldn't mind if he's town" ???

And then she says "but this wagon just seems dumb to me."

So the whole post is "I think he's more likely to be town but I wouldn't mind if he's town but I think his wagon is bad."

All the transitions in the post negate what came before it linguistically. It doesn't feel like an organic string of sentences that was produced from a town mindset. In 118 she clarifies that it's a null read but it didn't sound like one at all.

Spoiler: More about Katyusha and Pine

@Pine regarding 142 - <3 I think I'm okay sheeping you guys on Kat? I tried reading her ISO on Monday but ran out of steam because I wasn't feeling well but now that I'm feeling able to read a bit closer I think I can see what you're saying?

@Katyusha regarding 143 - Alisae says that none of those things are actually scummy. E agrees with 120 that scumPine wouldn't piss off the one person who was on his side. E thinks your push on Pine is unnatural and that you're tunnelling in an agend-y wolfy way. Your 119 looks like a rhetorical question to me, or at least not the kind of question that sounds like you're expecting an honest dialogue in response, you're just scolding him. As for 128, I see that you later realised you missed that people had unvoted him. Does this still bother you?

I haven't played with Pine before myself but some people engage with people they're scumreading and others don't. I think it's best to engage for a while and then disengage once it stops being productive. I hear you that it's frustrating to be on the receiving end of as either alignment.

I think talking about people's scummies is a scumtell.

Spoiler: Odds and ends/One liners/Short questions to people

I realise my meta is very old but I feel decent about posts like 95 from Not Mafia. I talked to Alisae about it and convinced em.

A belated response to 107 - I don't have a strong alignment preference but I'm rusty after a long break so it's nice to be town.

Alisae liked Cogito's 162.

@Pine re 170: Congrats on immenent baby pinecone! That is such an adorable name!

@Dunn regarding 190, so, how's it feel up there on that fence?

@RedFlavor regarding 215, who do you want to lynch instead?

@singer regarding 173: Alisae feel like you aren't trying to find Ausuka's motivations or trying to be right. E thinks you're trying to present sound logic and reasoning to make yourself look good.

@singer regarding 233 - I didn't ego in the other game because it's my habit to bookmark games I'm spectating and because I'm worried about accidentally posting in the other game if it's in my egosearch.

Spoiler: Reads lists

Alisae's reads:
{Ausuka, NM, CES, Pine}
{Singer}
{Dunn, Redflavor, Katy}

Mine:
{Ausuka, Pine}
{Not_Mafia, Cogito Ergo Sum}
{Dunnstral, singersigner}
{RedFlavor}
{Katyusha}

intent to hammer Katyusha

I'll be around for a few hours if anyone wants to talk to me, and I'm hoping to be more active from here on out.

[Katyusha]

I’ll help you out Plot

I’ve always thought he was just great scum and average town idk

Makes me feel like him feeling mediocre is like. Not scummy.

Wouldn’t shed a tear if this is town but the wagon just feels dumb to me.

If Pine feels mediocre then it seems possible to me that he’s town if his scumgame is better than his town game. That’s not a real reason to townread someone, especially someone you have never played with.

The wagon was legitimately stupid and if he flipped scum at that time it’d feel cheap. The most reason anyone gave to wagon him was “he didn’t feel like this in GD” which I think is self-explanatory on why it’s dumb. I think it’s entirely possible Town pushes dumb reasons like that on page two, but that doesn’t make Pine town. I had no reason to think Pine was more or less likely scum at that time so to me if he got flipped I’d just feel the same way about it. Like there was no reason for me to care about his wagon

[Katyusha]

Part of it is how early Pine was wagonned, because Alisae thinks that as a wolf, Pine wouldn't get wagoned so early and that are probably wolves wolfreading him.

^ Reminder that Pine’s wagon composition is identical to mine

[Katyusha]

It’s far more reasonable for scum to bus in an RVS wagon that’s not going to go through than it is on a wagon like this when I literally have the stronger case here

Every slot that’s even remotely posted anything town (Ausuka, Dunn, CES) have all shown they’re not going to go support this. Please remember that when I flip that both scum are voting me and are not hiding it. Pine is obvious scum and I really hope it’s crystal clear why after this shit lynch.

[Katyusha]

Dunn is an IC as soon as I flip. This is his town meta to a T and you’re scum if you push him.

CES and Ausuka are like 90% town, no real reason to scumread them but I don’t have the same solid foundation as I do for Dunn

Plot I’ll act like I townread but like note Ali throwing away eir reason to townread Pine when it should also apply to me is notable and should be scrutinized after I’m hammered

N_M and RF are just bad town I think. They’re LHF, not scum. Like they’ve at least shown an attempt to look like they have real thought processes and are gamesolving. More confident n_m is town than rf but it’s not promising.

Pine is the next lynch. Singer tomorrow.

[Katyusha]

Subject: Mini Normal 1850 | The Penguin Mafia | Endgame

Giga can be really hesitant at times and is very transparent about her read changes
Scum always try to exploit this and write her off as an easy scum read....it's almost a scumtell at this point

Deuces.

[Plotinus]

Oh, ok.

The "doesn't feel this awkward in gd" thing felt like a reference I wasn't getting especially once other people started repeating it.


That's an interesting point about the wagons. If you do flip town, I'll take your reads into consideration.

[Katyusha]

Just take it into consideration now?

Like the wagon on me is horrible and there’s zero opposition to it since Ausuka/Dunn/Ces are all playing passively and they’re also all town

[Katyusha]

Anyway regardless of what anyone flips I still stand by my play and don’t think I deserve this

I don’t really have an ego but I know a shit lynch when I see one

[Katyusha]

Just reread my iso and I have no clue where people even got the impression I townread Pine

[Ausuka]

i think katyusha is town??? unabombah thinks it's katy/plot but like I'm not really seeing that personally. idk. I know the people scumreading katy are better players than me but she looks town rn.

i don't really like singer's progression on katy? specifically 207; I don't get why singer thinks that what Katy did can't come from town, and has to come from scum. like, sure, she asked Katy a few questions and pushed her, does that mean Katy's going out of her way to scumread her and is manufacturing Lycan's reads to do so? to me it feels more like she wants to jump on the katy wagon and get it to l-1. I also don't get her concept in 209 that scum!Katy is going to react to scumreads by blowing them out of proportion and OMGUS'ing and saying what she did wasn't scummy, whereas town!Katy would presumably be logical and robotic and say "well I understand the people saying I'm scum" (which I rarely see anyway.) Like, I don't really get singer's push on Katy here, and it feels like she's trying to get a mislynch. I still need to talk to unabombah about this though.

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

I'm going to trust the people who say NM and Dunn are town via meta.

My reads at this point would be:
{Dunnstal, Not_Mafia, CES}
{Plotinus, Katyusha}
{Pine, Redflavor}
{singer}

I'm not trying to be passive? I'm more busy irl than I usually am but like I think I've done fine so far?

[Katyusha]

All mentions of Pine before I scumread him:

Pine is L-1 btw but he is most likely scum so good

Don’t really see what warrants that read yet, help me out?

Sure it’s clear I don’t scumread him here but I also don’t see why RF is confident in his read here

RedFlavor’s at L-1 too btw

Slightly prefer redflavor over pine

“Slightly” should key people in that I didn’t have a strong read one way or the other

i dont go on gd so i cant relate

nor does he give the impression he's awkward?

“I don’t agree with your toneread” is not “I townread the person you’re pushing”

I'd like to vote for scum as annoying as that is, Pine. Do you have any reads besides that?

Not a question specifically asked to townreads? Like Pine’s vote was entirely policy and I wanted to see if he had scumreads

RedFlavor looks scummy to me. Not a huge fan of Singer's opacity.

Honestly it's way too early for sophisticated reads.

Is opaqueness scummy in your experience? It’s not really my style but I usually can see why people are like that early on

Hanging question that never got followed up on btw, singer scumread disappearing is a nice meme and more evidence Pine doesn’t have a real trajectory if you needed it

I guess rn I’d pick n_m as the most likely scum on pine if pine is town, I don’t think singer’s vote was particularly opportunistic like you say

Like I’m townreading her ces vote more and can plausibly see scum!singer making her pine vote, but her pine vote is null to me

n_m > rf > ploti > singer

I don’t think “who is the most likely scum on Pine if he’s town” is a particularly wild thing to think about when he’s at L-1

mean in 47 seem like pretty typical posts of someone getting wagonned and if any

Er 48 lol

I’m not even whelmed by Pine’s posting

Are you expecting to be?

Totally reasonable question regardless of my read on Pine

I’ve always thought he was just great scum and average town idk

Makes me feel like him feeling mediocre is like. Not scummy.

Wouldn’t shed a tear if this is town but the wagon just feels dumb to me.

Again I still stand by saying this, and the explanation for it is above if this still perplexed people how you can be OK with a wagon on a nullread

[Katyusha]

Ausuka you’re fine you just haven’t been active that’s what I was saying

Let’s get singer

[Not_Mafia]

What's LHF?

[Not_Mafia]

UNVOTE: Katyusha
VOTE: singer

[Katyusha]

What's LHF?

Low hanging fruit