Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Nero Cain]

I doubt i can get anything more from you, if no one else is joining me, but i'll keep eye on you

mayhaps no one joined us b/c the grand total of ur case is "Nero is lurking" which isn't true anyways.

[Impossibear]

ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.

@RC:

First of all, I'm not really sure what makes you think you deserve any kind of respect from me or anyone until you've earned it, which you haven't. Secondly, I absolutely did. I discussed all of your reads, both those I agreed with and those I didn't. If I had zero respect for you, I'd ignore you completely and dismiss everything you said. Instead I attempted to work with you. Not only that, but if you had shown any indication of evaluating the wagon and evaluating your read, rather than stubbornly calling people who disagree with you scum, I might have an inkling of respect for your ability to look into the wagon. As it stands, you get none now, because you haven't shown that you deserve it.

To be quite frank with you, after this arrogant display of yours, I have no interest in speaking with you further. This is simply a choice on my part to reduce the amount of aggravation from playstyle differences. Please do not address me. Thanks.

ETL

[Impossibear]

down to wagon this as well^

But I'm scum, aren't I? And Wraith is my top scum read. So explain this disconnect, especially considering my number rule as scum is "never fucking bus". Shows how well you know me.

ETL

[Impossibear]

You know it's a good sign for the town when players are more concerned with figuring out hydra/alt identities than scum.

Are you even reading the same game?

Yeah, there's only so much I care to comment upon

Why is this not dead yet?

[Impossibear]

I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

Easy to say after the fact.

I'd like more from you, please.

ETL

[Impossibear]

VC 1.05

Tchill13 (2):

verylazy, davesaz

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (2):

wilky, Ventriloquist

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (6):

Ouroboros, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE,

ManWithNoName

,

MariaR

,

Wraith

, Alchemist21

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Wraith (2):

Impossibear, Kaede Akamatsu

Not Voting:

hebichan

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

Yep. Totally a wagon on scum. I've never seen such blatant bullshit. The underlined players are the most suspect on this one.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Who all is here in the thread right now? I'd like to have a chat.

ETL

[Nero Cain]

me

[Ankamius]

I just got home.

What's up?

[Impossibear]

Hello!

Ank, I'm glad you're here too. I wanted to go through the post you gave me discussing where our reads misalign. Let me go grab it....

Nero, where do you currently stand as far as your top two town reads and top two scum reads, not including the IC?

[Impossibear]

Ok, while I go through the rest of these, here's the first bit:

Early Alchemist Posts: A big source of my scumread on Alchemist came from these posts, actually. I'm not liking the way he came out onto the miller point so fast after the game started; I especially do not like his answer to Ghost regarding davesaz' play since I don't remember him ever being particularly active or a big player in the game he's in; him specifically focusing on him not being scum pings in light of that. I really didn't like #21 either.

Ok, so, my impression of Alchemist's first vote was RVS-ish. He'll have to confirm that or not. The fact that he moved it to Ouroboros pretty quickly tells me he wasn't that committed to it in the first place, especially after thinking about it for a bit, which it looks like given the explanation in 9.

Regarding the bit about Dave being active or not, I'm confused because Alchemist's response says that Dave

doesn't

post as much. Did I miss something there?

What didn't you like about 21?

[Nero Cain]

Wilky and Dunn

Maria and Hebi

[Ventriloquist]

Okay so I'm locking in here

Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum

VOTE: Ventriloquist

You're literally like a broken record - how rudimentary is this logic? Impossibear doesn't agree with you so Impossibear must be scum? In what world would a mafia aligned player defend another mafia aligned player so damn hard, knowing that they would both go down together?

MWNN has not given substantial reasons for any of his votes, he has simply changed it several times and given some vague reasoning which never really materialises - once more he always changes his vote back to whatever Ouroboros is going with, despite voting elsewhere briefly (to create the illusion of actually having his own voice) - Given the way in which MWNN and REALMEN instantly rallied around you, it wouldn't surprise me if you're all scum together. Ouroboros 'probably' reading MWNN makes perfect sense here, making it seem like MWNN is on his radar as a bad guy (thus distancing himself) yet never putting him at the top, therefore not having to consider lynching him.

Taking the saying of the best defense is a good offense to a whole new level.

[Ventriloquist]

Oh, so it's gonna be one of those games

AKA, literally every game I'm in

You're reading me as scum but you think this whole don't lynch me because I always get lynched card isn't dubious?

[Ventriloquist]

ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.
If you don't understand why I am scumreading the slot then you certainly shouldn't be saying shit about me being oblivious to the development of the wagon.
I echo the same general ideas that Alchemist had about the way they talk to me being extremely scum leaning but I have very specific ideas here as opposed to Alchemist's vague idea.

Also in defense of Ventriloquist, you've cited MWNN and RMOJ as your reasons for opposing the wagon development.
This doesn't pan out well because although they are voting, neither of their votes are particularly enthusiastic in a way that signifies that they couldn't be scum bussing.

RealMenOnlyJungle has several times after he joined the wagon tried to be like HEY LETS WAGON VERYLAZY INSTEAD.
MWNN took a lot of prompting and comments about his likeliness of being aligned with Ventriloquist before he decided to vote there and hasn't specifically pushed it himself.

Your engagement with me has also been fundamentally monodirectional: rather than trying to understand why my read is what it is you've gotten mad at me for not sharing your reads and been like HEY YOU SHOULD BE READING THIS INSTEAD. I'm not going to claim to be perfect town. But when you make a list of people who can read you and then say that you're a better scum player it makes me extremely skeptical of your ability to fairly judge how good you are: there is literally no one on this site who can claim that they can read me among several people who have told me they've read every single game I've played, and I have one of the largest bodies of work of anyone on this site.

I'm not townreading lazy worth shit: it's completely null. I simply think that the wagon on them is highly liable to be a scum counterwagon.

When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost.

Don't fail to make any mental effort to appreciate why I'm scumreading a slot then call me bad town for faiing to scumread it, assuming you're town.

Never, ever, ever fail to lynch this slot tomorrow if (when) Ventriloquist flips scum. Don't cop them, don't investigate them, don't discuss with them, just quicklynch them.

It isn't fair to say ETL showed no respect for your reads earlier - fact of the matter is they went through all the posts on page 16 and ultimately decided they didn't agree with your reads - Impossibear still took the time to hear you out at least. Meanwhile, you've ignored the vast majority of Impossibear's posts - posts which actually analyse a huge quantity of players posts. Nice try discrediting the reads since she disagreed with you though, I guess you like to manipulate facts.

MWNN was never being scumread by anyone else as my teammate, only you - when in actuality the close connection you've had with each other - MWNN voting in a similar way to you, and you keeping MWNN at just enough arm's distance to avoid suspicion, actually reads as you two working together from where I'm reading. MWNN did not want to vote for me but eventually came around to the idea...almost as if it was inevitable hey - and his reasoning was because 'I'm not a leader' wow, just wow.

You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'

[Ventriloquist]

I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

My initial posts had some vague reads, sure (an idea about Tchill, genuinely my first week on this forum - I assumed it was credible to consider the jester role) and what I said about Wilky didn't bring anything new to the table I'll admit - but given that I hadn't said anything up to that point and the thread was already blowing up I obviously had to show my face, and in the absence of having any significant reads I just said some general observations because I thought it was more productive than, hey, I don't know, jumping onto a voting bandwagon with no reasoning. On top of that, I did vote for Ramcius and a gave strong reasoning for doing so.

Meanwhile you chose to take advantage of my lack of experience and turn it into a 'scumread' - then popped some joke, palming it off as a 'meme' when it didn't go your way. As soon as the pressure came off and I'd left the forum you got back onto my wagon, knowing I wasn't around to defend myself.

[Ventriloquist]

Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too

Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.

Very suspicious post

Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

He uses some rather

absurd

leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?

I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.

Maybe fakeclaiming is more likely, but that doesn't mean I wasn't trying to help. Either way, I acknowledged that his claim was not believable WHICH IS WHY I suggested joker in the first place, why else make yourself so lynchable? But if you were game for a Tchill lynch and the jester possibility really is so absurd, then why aren't you voting for them instead?

I never made a strong claim against Wilky, but it was odd how he said it wouldn't be far-fetched to have another game with 2 millers when this moderator has done it before. It's like he'd done his research, found the link then knew it was credible because it isn't the first time. I wasn't saying this was the case but it wasn't inaccurate to discuss.

[Ventriloquist]

so you vote town because you're not 'man' enough to cope with resistance on lynching scum?

fuck off. jingle was clearly wrong about you. and i'm the one who said you had no skill. i see i was right. go away.

fuck off both of you. idiots.

towns these days are garbage. i don't know why i bother with discussion.

wait didn't someone just say this is what you do as scum

And last but not least, play nice people - we are all here to have fun, are we not?

I've had my say so, up to you guys now.

Also, VOTE: MWNN - my nomination, if Ouroboros truly does think he is 'probably' scum then he can prove it.

[Ouroboros]

Right so Nero is town far, far above rand as of right now.

I'm going to just treat the Impossibear hydra as confirmed scum, they're only like 75% scum to my estimation as of right now but ETL's moves here are straight scumbuddy, particularly when given she confirmed that she doesn't bus. I reiterate my strongly worded request that they be lynched tomorrow regardless of anything else that happens. Don't blow investigative powers if we have any on them, just get rid of them. Even if they're town, they should probably die for how much they're pushing scum wincon and being obstinate as shit about it.

Ventriloquist is >95% scum in my mind: the way they're pushing on me comes from scum always.

If I have to contest Impossibear and make this a bloodbath I will do so and I will win. Jingle regardless of your alignment you know that all you'll do is shit up the game and not fail to prevent Ventriloquist lynch: I am never backing down on this lynch.

And last but not least, play nice people - we are all here to have fun, are we not?

I've had my say so, up to you guys now.

Also, VOTE: MWNN - my nomination, if Ouroboros truly does think he is 'probably' scum then he can prove it.

Not worth the risk: I think this probably points more to you being scumbuddies but I am only like 55% on him being scum so he is the third day lynch.
I also think this is very, very likely to be an attempt to distance but the gamestate is flat out better if we lynch Ventriloquistscum.

[Ouroboros]

Also this is almost always a coached interaction so someone on the scumteam generally knows what they're doing.

[Ouroboros]

You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'

this in particular is ridiculously scum indicative

[Impossibear]

Jingle regardless of your alignment you know that all you'll do is shit up the game

This is really rude and uncalled for. Reporting this.

[Ouroboros]

Okay?

[Impossibear]

If I have to contest Impossibear and make this a bloodbath I will do so and I will win.

If you continue to make this personal, I will just leave so you can abuse the next player in this slot. The fact that Jingle even had to go out of his way to try and accommodate your abusive ass is far more than you deserve. Trust me when I say that if you continue to ruin this game for people, I will make it my personal mission to rid the site of you.

Real talk.

ETL

[Ouroboros]

Go for it? I'm not making this personal whatsoever. I am simply stating that I am going to ensure the Ventriloquist lynch at all costs.
You are the one who has repeatedly made this game personal with regards to several people and told people to stop addressing you and such, I've just tried to lynch my top scumread.
You're currently declaring an out of game war on me for pushing on you, that's pretty reportable and personal.