In post 424, Pine wrote:Four big differences. First, MoI's request was for a specific piece of meta, chamber's was for a much broader topic, thus harder to actually answer satisfactorily. Second, I tend to be more sensitive to fair play issues from the outside. I play hard, and I expect to be challenged. When it's happening to others, I'm more likely to call them on something I'd tolerate myself. Third, chamber was being a dick, making unreasonable demands, while MoI was being a lot more professional.
Fourth and perhaps most important, I didn't actually honor MoI's request. I provided summary meta, but declined to dig through my past games to find the one piece of proof.
I think all of that would show consistency, rather than the reverse.
They were actually for a similar thing. Magna wanted to know when you'd called people town early, Chamber wanted to know when Eddie had played specifically like this. Which I would guess is kinda lurky, sniping from the sidelines and not doing anything in general. I mean it's pretty easy to say yeah last game I took this approach as town was X.
Chamber might have been a dick about the newbie date thing in general, I agree there, but Eddie has been being a bit dickish himself.
He certainly wasn't a dick to say can you provide a town game where you played like this.
You did respond to Magna in a more amiable way though, while jumping in the middle of Chamber's questioning of someone else to crap on his attempt to get a read somewhere else. If you're on an anti-toxic kick lately, you're kinda doing that wrong.
Posts 140 and 141 are heading in the direction of what I expect from a town!Magna. That *thing* isn't there yet where I'm like yep without a doubt, but it's headed there I think.
(There is a game that RC linked in site chat a couple weeks ago where he thought that Magna did really well as scum that I've been meaning to read to make sure, so this is here mostly as a reminder for myself to look for it again to orient myself and make sure what I'm looking for hasn't made its way into his scum game.)
Not much to say on Eddie except I kinda liked that part where he talked about "carrying everyone" but without knowing anything about Eddie I'm not sure whether that type of bravado is actually alignment indicative.
I didn't really read much of Old Man's posts but I did catch him scoffing at Magna getting after him for his word count and that he comments on what he feels like he needs to comment on, which is ironic considering him chiding Chamber et al for the proper questions and such.
In post 390, petroleumjelly wrote:I have not gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to sort you at all. Rather, Pine's posts appear to be defending you from the get-go (including Post #52, which you cite). He has not questioned you at all (if anything, he has supplied explanations for you), or really engaged with you. The only 'interaction' I can even find is when he "passed" on discussing Firebringer with you (see Post #174).
Sorting doesn't mean asking a bunch of questions. He's sorting my alignment, internally. It followed off our last game and recent games are always more fresh in your subconscious.
Can you give a more in-depth explanation? Why and where have you gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to "sort" you this game?
You already listed posts...
That's not good enough.
I have read through Pine's posts multiple times now, and I am legitimately not seeing it. He has been blindly defending you from pushes and has attacked those who attacked you (and invited you to vote chamber with him). It is no surprise he does not find the confirmation pushes to have any merit, since that would just make himself look bad. He first asked you to "simmer down," which was then later followed by Post #144, which reads as a second not-so-subtle attempt to request that you be less adversarial. This isn't sorting; this is advising.
Pine's posting reads to me like he's your partner trying to defend against you being wagoned while advising you on how to change up your play to avoid garnering votes (see my Post #286 where I explain the connection tell).
What I
don't
see is somebody who is internally debating whether you are Town or Scum. He has basically just defended you as if you were Town from the beginning.
Please explain why you feel Pine is internally "sorting" you.
Oh also fire bringer's walls read fine in what they say, but the way he's saying it feels off. And I'm not sure if that's because he's trying out a new style and using language that isn't natural for him so tonally it feels kinda stilted, and that kind of thing always throws me off.
In post 424, Pine wrote:Four big differences. First, MoI's request was for a specific piece of meta, chamber's was for a much broader topic, thus harder to actually answer satisfactorily. Second, I tend to be more sensitive to fair play issues from the outside. I play hard, and I expect to be challenged. When it's happening to others, I'm more likely to call them on something I'd tolerate myself. Third, chamber was being a dick, making unreasonable demands, while MoI was being a lot more professional.
Fourth and perhaps most important, I didn't actually honor MoI's request. I provided summary meta, but declined to dig through my past games to find the one piece of proof.
I think all of that would show consistency, rather than the reverse.
They were actually for a similar thing. Magna wanted to know when you'd called people town early, Chamber wanted to know when Eddie had played specifically like this. Which I would guess is kinda lurky, sniping from the sidelines and not doing anything in general. I mean it's pretty easy to say yeah last game I took this approach as town was X.
Chamber might have been a dick about the newbie date thing in general, I agree there, but Eddie has been being a bit dickish himself.
He certainly wasn't a dick to say can you provide a town game where you played like this.
You did respond to Magna in a more amiable way though, while jumping in the middle of Chamber's questioning of someone else to crap on his attempt to get a read somewhere else. If you're on an anti-toxic kick lately, you're kinda doing that wrong.
It just reads wrong.
It's not about what you think is justified or not. You asked me why I responded differently to two similar cues. I provided my motivations, per request.
Maybe it's just as simple as I'm more patient with my friends, and I get irritated with people I perceive as being dicks.
I offer you post 429 on a platter. I’m not going to go through quoting your iso, but you have to realize right? I mean I know when I’m being a bitch.
You’re calling me a dick and irritating for pointing out and inquiring about a very valid point in a mafia game as I’m trying to determine your alignment.
And it is absolutely about what I think is justified or not considering the fact that I’m trying to figure out your alignment based on what you are doing in thread. When you treat a very similar question in obviously different ways, it means something. Now maybe it means you’re being amiable to magna because you want to stay on his good side. Maybe you snapped at chamber because you wanted to shut down or discredit his Eddie questioning for some reason.
Maybe it’s not alignment indicative and you just like magna and dislike chamber and you wanted to put chamber in his place, which if the case then you know you’re just being a jerk and actually creating an environment less conducive to town solving the game, right?
It was odd, and just like you told chamber, your behavior is on trial too. Sorry not sorry if you don’t like it.
Welcome Lycanfire. Unfortunately, I think you're in a scum slot.
Firebringer 409 wrote:hey insanity. I don't know you well, but I feel like I should? You been around awhile. Have we played together? I am or was. I don't know where my vote is. I think eddie is good person to sheep day one. He nailed half my scum team in team mafia. So like I trust his skills as long as I think he is town, and I get that town vibe from him and I really want him to tell me if he can spot what I am townreading him for. I think I have hinted at before to him what I look for in his posts.
I took a hiatus for about 2 years but I don't think we played together the last time I was on site.
Do you think Eddie Cane's scumhunting skills are vastly superior to yours? I find it weird that you are happy to sheep a townread onto voting for another townread. Putting aside Eddie Cane's scumread, what is your current read of the chamber/Morality/Tammy slot?
Helpful tip - you don't need to comment on every post!
Can you re-state your case on Magna? I am finding it difficult to see what you are trying to say.
Tammy wrote:Insanity - What did you like about Tywin's 99?
I initially liked the 3 questions asked at the end of the post. It felt like good, probing questions at that time of the game. That read has weakened (aka disappeared completely) with having a closer look at the first part of the post and Tywin's subsequent posting and lack of follow up.
In post 390, petroleumjelly wrote:I have not gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to sort you at all. Rather, Pine's posts appear to be defending you from the get-go (including Post #52, which you cite). He has not questioned you at all (if anything, he has supplied explanations for you), or really engaged with you. The only 'interaction' I can even find is when he "passed" on discussing Firebringer with you (see Post #174).
Sorting doesn't mean asking a bunch of questions. He's sorting my alignment, internally. It followed off our last game and recent games are always more fresh in your subconscious.
Can you give a more in-depth explanation? Why and where have you gotten the impression that Pine has been trying to "sort" you this game?
You already listed posts...
That's not good enough.
I have read through Pine's posts multiple times now, and I am legitimately not seeing it. He has been blindly defending you from pushes and has attacked those who attacked you (and invited you to vote chamber with him). It is no surprise he does not find the confirmation pushes to have any merit, since that would just make himself look bad. He first asked you to "simmer down," which was then later followed by Post #144, which reads as a second not-so-subtle attempt to request that you be less adversarial. This isn't sorting; this is advising.
Pine's posting reads to me like he's your partner trying to defend against you being wagoned while advising you on how to change up your play to avoid garnering votes (see my Post #286 where I explain the connection tell).
What I
don't
see is somebody who is internally debating whether you are Town or Scum. He has basically just defended you as if you were Town from the beginning.
Please explain why you feel Pine is internally "sorting" you.
i like this post but what you describe actually seems more likely with pine scum eddie town than with both scum
tammy devoting a lot of effort to justifying her axel townread
I'm still very happy with my Tywin vote. Him flaking out makes me feel even better about it. I see Firebringer has some votes on him now. I'd consider switching back but I'm happier where I am for the time being. None of the other wagons particularly interest me right now.
Having trouble seeing the PetroleumJelly scum reads. Someone mentioned earlier they scum read him because he's throwing out a lot of questions. I quickly looked at some of his other games and it seems to be pretty standard for his play style. Someone else mentioned they didn't like his vote #5 on Eddie. Is that it?
rofl: Could you at least quickly explain why you don't like the Tywin wagon? Is it the people on it? What do you think about his posts in the game so far?
In post 325, Kison wrote:
[snip]
This is very inconsistent, in the exact same post.
UNVOTE: Firebringer VOTE: Tywin Lannister
Could you please explain how tywin couldn't hold all of those positions at the same time? It think he can without contradiction. doesn't mean they are all right, just that he is consistent.
It's an inconsistency of his mindset. I think Hito said it better than me: look at the extremity of his language. In the first half where he's defending his decision to go after the Eddie wagon voters, he's acting like there's little to no chance of Eddie being scum. He even uses the term "100%" twice. But when it comes to justifying his read on Hito being scum, that extreme confidence no longer is there. That's fishy to me & sounds like the foundation for his Eddie read isn't really genuine.
It's too bad he flaked out because I was looking forward to his followup.
Magna wrote:No. Well at least no in the sense you are pedaling here. Stubbornness is a personal trait not an alignment trait. I’d wager people would find me stubborn regardless of my alignment. I’m pretty sure Eddie falls into the same category.
Stubbornness, generally, sure. But when it comes to something like "I'm not explaining X until Y happens" even under the threat of a wagon, that's town stubbornness. The reason for that is you know it's not helping things as far as peoples' reads on you, but it may help you with your own reads. As scum, only one of those two things matters.
Magna wrote:In some respects sure but their psych profiles all share a certain set of values. Do you think this is indicative of scum behavior KMD? I get the sense you are more looking to pick at points as opposed to look for scum.
If you are town, I want you to be using logic that will get accurate results. If your basis for anything regarding Eddie is "he's like Mathdino" or "he's like radiantcowbells", you're probably going to be wrong. So yeah I wanted to correct that. But no, I don't at all think that makes you scum.
Magna wrote:Eddie – Can you link me to the post or posts in general from Team Mafia you were referring to with KMD? Because his explanation really seems like a sidestep and I want see it firsthand at this juncture.
Which of the things I listed do you not find credible?
Insanity wrote:It felt you might have been trying to look busy by making posts on the past thread, while avoiding the need to engage with anything happening right now which might be more controversial.
For completeness, can you provide a link to a game where this was your style of catching up?
Eddie wrote:
Boon knows my town and scum games, we have played together a LOT. His predecessor was scumreading me on meta, which is explicitly wrong because this is my town game blatantly and why I was tryna get Chamber to link the games he looked at. Boon also knows scum!him probably can't 1v1 me. Its more that that slot was probably scum and Boon flaking rather than fighting definitely didn't help that. Tammy's stuff doesn't seem bad so far though so we'll see where that goes. The reason I worded it as "lets 1v1" is because every time I've 1v1'd Boon we end up correctly townreading each other or scum!him gets lynched. The one true 1v1 we had with screaming and shit was the former and we townblocked hard.
Hmm. Boon doesn't strike me as the type to just give up like that. But if you're right about the situation, I can see where it would be a tough spot for him. And I was scum reading chamber so...maybe.
Eddie wrote:
KMD, why am I so solidly town for you? I don't really get it from your posts.
I've said a handful of times why your waiting on me despite the wagon on you was town. And then there's the fact that I'm pretty sure there was scum on your wagon and I don't think they were bussing. There's also been nothing in your posts since then to suggest you are scum. Everything reads as a genuine effort to solve the game.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
Eddie wrote:
Boon knows my town and scum games, we have played together a LOT. His predecessor was scumreading me on meta, which is explicitly wrong because this is my town game blatantly and why I was tryna get Chamber to link the games he looked at. Boon also knows scum!him probably can't 1v1 me. Its more that that slot was probably scum and Boon flaking rather than fighting definitely didn't help that. Tammy's stuff doesn't seem bad so far though so we'll see where that goes. The reason I worded it as "lets 1v1" is because every time I've 1v1'd Boon we end up correctly townreading each other or scum!him gets lynched. The one true 1v1 we had with screaming and shit was the former and we townblocked hard.
Hmm. Boon doesn't strike me as the type to just give up like that. But if you're right about the situation, I can see where it would be a tough spot for him. And I was scum reading chamber so...maybe.
I'm missing the context of who Eddie is replying to but uh that's not what happened or at least not how it happened. After Morality made that active lurking post he made like two other posts on site and then siteflaked for a few days. He got prodded, didn't pick up his prod and I got an email asking if I still wanted to replace in. Korts sent me the role pm and pretty much at the same time, Morality came back and began the 1v1 with Eddie. But since I had already been sent the role pm, Korts considered him already replaced, so the 1v1 got cut short because he was no longer in the game.
I don't know Boon very well, but he seems like he's got a pretty big ego about his game and I can't imagine him running away even if he were scum, but that's neither here nor there because it's not what happened.
Anyway just wanted to clear that up; I might be back tonight after graduation and festivities, if not over the weekend.
Hito wrote:I have good vibes from PJ 390 where he answered my comment of "I can't really remember his positions" by giving a read list. I didn't actually request reads, and I think scum there would have just thought "hey it's probably good if he can't really remember me".
You don't think scum would rather be read as town than left in a pool that eventually could make them scum by process of elimination?
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Firebringer, your town read on Jelly is one I'm having trouble understanding and it's not just because I disagree with it. You seem to have the idea that he's borderline incompetent as scum which I don't at all get. And then any other mention of him is either just that he's definitely town and you saying that you already elaborated on him. Your read feels overstated if anything. I'd just like to know if there's more to it or if it's as simple as you don't think he can...well...play the game as scum. I'd imagine a guy who has been on the site for 13 years is capable of playing the way he has been so far so hopefully there's more to it or I'm just misunderstanding you completely.
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Spoiler: non-game stuff
Eddie wrote:the one good thing about month long deadlines is you cant really vla and miss a day
QFT. This is why I loved the idea of Geriatric when Korts first posted it. Mafia for people who don't have time for mafia.
Pine wrote:*Caveat: I am exhausted trying to help Lady Pine through feeding a baby that won’t latch. The first time she did, and twice briefly today, but it’s concerning.
Tell her don't give up with it. That's actually really common at first. There's all kind of advice online from people who have had that issue. Breastfeeding is so much healthier than formula.
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Note to self: I want to check something in Tammy's meta and need to find a town game or two of hers. Meh, I should probably look at a scum game or two as well just to be sure I'm not misremembering the tell I think I'm picking up.
Tammy wrote:Absolutely detest Tywin's 99
Tammy wrote:I think I picked up something he's more likely to do as town than scum, so I'll have to come back to this.
Tammy wrote:Tywin is my biggest concern as of now.
Hmm. You said when you first replaced in that you're leaning scum and I'm assuming that's still your read (correct me if I'm wrong). Are you willing to say what the meta tell was and why your reasons for scumreading him might outweigh that? And why haven't you voted him?
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Rofl wrote:for me prod dodging is like reading the last few posts and then going ugh god the rest not right now
Then I'll assume you missed me asking you about your case on Axel. I'd still like that addressed.
Kison wrote:Having trouble seeing the PetroleumJelly scum reads. Someone mentioned earlier they scum read him because he's throwing out a lot of questions. I quickly looked at some of his other games and it seems to be pretty standard for his play style. Someone else mentioned they didn't like his vote #5 on Eddie. Is that it?
It wasn't just the vote. His read on Eddie from then up to now doesn't feel like a genuine read. I just saw after typing that that you said the same thing about Tywin. Not really relevant, I know, but made me laugh.
Tammy wrote:I'm missing the context of who Eddie is replying to but uh that's not what happened or at least not how it happened. After Morality made that active lurking post he made like two other posts on site and then siteflaked for a few days. He got prodded, didn't pick up his prod and I got an email asking if I still wanted to replace in. Korts sent me the role pm and pretty much at the same time, Morality came back and began the 1v1 with Eddie. But since I had already been sent the role pm, Korts considered him already replaced, so the 1v1 got cut short because he was no longer in the game.
I don't know Boon very well, but he seems like he's got a pretty big ego about his game and I can't imagine him running away even if he were scum, but that's neither here nor there because it's not what happened.
True, but he also admitted to actively avoiding the thread before all of that. I guess it's not really "giving up" so much as hiding. I guess I could believe that Boon would do that as scum.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
In post 430, Tammy wrote:You’ve been a dick this whole game Pine, just so you’re aware. That does not jibe with your anti-toxic kick you claim to be on.
I disagree?
"Ima need to buy at least Josh a fucking tarot card reading because this dude is scary at picking up on scum before they even post what the fuck type of Ms. Cleo ass psychic ass mothafucka did yall allow to sign up for this site"
In post 445, Axelrod wrote:I'm trying to look at Firebringer's stuff, but it's hard. Punctuation, spelling and proper sentence structure. Is that so hard?
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
