Haggle Smash 64 (GAMEOVER)

[VashtaNeurotic]

/in Lot 6

[VashtaNeurotic]

Question, am I allowed to offer the same trade to two people at the same time?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Rule 8 for any other rule

Offer Rule 14 for any other rule

Accept Falcon for Kirby

[VashtaNeurotic]

Is the early game typically us offering random trades?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Accept Mario and Rule 5 for Link and Rule 8

Offer Fox and Rule 9 for any character and any rule except rule 8

[VashtaNeurotic]

Willing to negotiate once I find out what these new rules are. Though I can only really give a fox

[VashtaNeurotic]

Not particularly. Anyone want to help me get 5 links?

Also anyone willing to give me a Pikachu?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Chamber what are you doing?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh that was to me, nevermind. Eh sure,

Accept link for mario

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Rule 5 for Rule 10 or Rule 16

[VashtaNeurotic]

BYF, what is 11 - 6?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also

Offer Fox and Mario for Link and Yoshi to Big Yoshi Fan

[VashtaNeurotic]

Irrelephant, want do you want for Pikachu?

[VashtaNeurotic]

No no no animorph, I'm trying to GET one, not trade one away. Unless you are offering?

[VashtaNeurotic]

I hate sleeping in. Welp.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anything I can do to take one pikachu off your hand ani?

[VashtaNeurotic]

On a separate note, anyone who knows the link rule knows we can't just let Haschel keep racking them up, I suggest we assemble 6 links on someone (preferably me first since I already have 3) and pass them around to everyone each day so we can balance out Haschel, seem good?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Rule 10 and 2 samuses for Rule 8 and 2 links to Irrelephant

(I think this is doable, right?)

[VashtaNeurotic]

I mean, we both know we can't just let you have the most, even if you disagree on me having 6 I should at least get 5.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Rule 10 and 3 samuses for Rule 8 and 2 links to Irrelephan

[VashtaNeurotic]

Someone should probably give the link rule to radhala before he makes a mistake that will haunt him forever.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh and uh. Ani, you said you wanted to know what fox does?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Lies. Lies and deceit. You can just see yoshi's backtracking over basic math to realize that.

Rahall, I make no offer on link because I not going to try and swindle you like haschy over here

[VashtaNeurotic]

Well, Animorpher, have I got a deal for you. You see I have recently acquired the rule pertaining to Fox, and trust me, you would like to know it.

Obviously I know you are fond of pikachu, as am I but I feel this information is quite valuable. I wish not to milk you dry, after all, there is much negotiating that we can do together and after the trade I am sure you will agree it was well worth it. As such I

Offer Rule 8 and Captain Falcon to ani for Pikachu and Rule 4

Rule 4 is in your possesion, correct?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh trust me, you can. Feel free to counter offer though.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I know it relies on you trusting me, but sometimes you need to take leaps of faith.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Feel free to conditionalize two offers, I'll take the one that corresponds. If I betray you, well, I'm certain that you have more than enough information to tank my game.

[VashtaNeurotic]

After all the information loses it's potency if you know which value it is.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I don't have any samues anymore. I traded them all away for link

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh that's how that rule works.

[VashtaNeurotic]

And fair, ani, feel free to take your time.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Any new thoughts, Ani?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Dude I'm asking for literallly one pikachu. I won't go for any more than that, and trust me, you need the fox information. I'm more than willing to trade 2 for 1 units.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, I have no intention of keeping the links all week.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo Rad, you still offering Pikachu for a Ness.

In that case

Accept Ness for Pikachu fro radhala

[VashtaNeurotic]

So that's a nay on the pikachu deal, rad?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yeah so I have no idea the rules on Luigi or Ness. So yeah, no dice. All I do is hand haschel tho lead by making that trade based upon my current info.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh you want to give me a link.
In that case

Accept

[VashtaNeurotic]

Accept Receiving a Link for Luigi and Ness

[VashtaNeurotic]

Still surely there is a deal where I can get a cure little electric mouse. Soon knowns or his replacement will be in an all negotiating power if those people will severely drop with me

[VashtaNeurotic]

Granted I know what haschel likely wants for one, but it's not so valuable that I'll make that type of trade today

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also who has the rule on that weird robot I just saw

[VashtaNeurotic]

But yeah, rad, what do you want for pikachu. Is there anything else I have of value to you?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also a real shame you made that trade when no one was around rad. I'd happily have given you the pikachu rule for a pikachu

[VashtaNeurotic]

Lol ani. You definitely want to see the fox rule now

[VashtaNeurotic]

Surely ani, I have

something

you might want, and I'll give you the information you need for it.

Offer ani marth and rule 8 for pikachu and rule 4

[VashtaNeurotic]

Because I misread the link rule about how they dissapear and then was offered a link for items that I don't know what they do. Simply, the information and situation changed in a way that at the very least delay that plan.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, no one else agreed to that plan if you read back, at least as far as I remember.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway, what I offered you is more than a fair deal, in fact I'm offering you more than I'd offer anyone else and I'm also giving you information that I'm certain you'll thank me for. So what do you say?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Okay, redact the deal

[VashtaNeurotic]

Or rather retract the most recent offer I made

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo, mallow are we allowed to make deals that take effect starting on a certain day?

[VashtaNeurotic]

And if I don't have the item to make the trade on the day of question, what would happen?

I.e can I set up a trade that would be disastrous for me if I don't do something by a certain time?

[VashtaNeurotic]

But be able to avoid it by trading away the item in question

[VashtaNeurotic]

And can I conditionalize a deal on say, having more than a certain amount of a character?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Like can I make a deal that says

"Trade 2 of x for 2 of y and if I have more than 3 of z at time q, rescind the deal"

[VashtaNeurotic]

Uh, Chambers has seen 9 though.

[VashtaNeurotic]

No offer to me? Sad.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I mean I have 2 rules you haven't seen, one of which likely gives you barganing power with ani. People underestimate the value of information in this game I feel.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo N, what's up?

I want to make a deal around the pikachu rule and receiving one so we can both profit but I'm not sure what you'd like from me, thoughts?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, lol Rule 10.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer N Rule 12 and Yoshi for Rule 1 and Pikachu

Rule 12 pertains to Pikachu so I feel it is mutually beneficial for us to know it and have one a piece

[VashtaNeurotic]

@rad: Why rule 3 instead of 13? Curious because rule 3 has been passed around a lot more.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Vashta:

Offer Rule 3 + Pikachu for Rule 12

Regardless, Accept.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I assume you don't have trades you wish to make with me, irrelephant?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh.....Animorpher gained an extra rule

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway, Big Yoshi Fan, where are you?

[VashtaNeurotic]

So what terms do you want for the fox rule? I already have a pikachu, so I won't be asking for that.

[VashtaNeurotic]

For some reason I think Haschel is lying.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I'll trade

Rule 8 for Rule 17

[VashtaNeurotic]

I've seen rule 14, and I given the shifty nature of this game I'm not sure trading away something with no knowledge of what it does is a good idea.

And I dunno, Haschy. One another note, what would you give to receive a link from me?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway Ani, once you read it, can you understand my asking price from last time?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yeah that's the thing. So CF has to be affected by a rule that hasn't gone around a lot, but also....no one seems to want to have them a lot, or get rid of them. As for trades, it depends on what Rule 17 is.

And don't pretend you have leverage Haschel, pretty much everyone knows what I'm offering when I say I'll give you a link, that is incentive enough.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Lol, will that deal stand on day 7?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway rad, I feel that was quite the trade of information.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oooh, but how relevant is rule 2 to me? I mean I'll likely accept, but I want to see rule 17 first, it could be worth a great deal.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Haschel, how would I learn how the status quo is preferential to you. You see, to have me yield there must not be an asymmetry of information. Your ability to deceive and finagle is well known to me, so while I trust that at some your words have a truthful spirit, I can't help but believe you are either exaggerating or ommitting something hoping I won't call your bluff. And that is fine irrelephant, we will find out soon.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yes, you also have been good at getting information based upon my analysis you have seen the most rules and of them 3 of them have been seen by 3 or fewer people, so I can't be certain that you are or aren't lying.

[VashtaNeurotic]

@Big yoshi fan: what do you want for the one Luigi you have?

[VashtaNeurotic]

He's seen rule 12, not 13 though.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway, rah. We've both seen rule 14, what would it take for me to take those RoBs off your hands.

[VashtaNeurotic]

N you should really read the Pikachu rule before you accept that trade,

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, where are the rules on falcon, ness and yoshi. And the scoring rules on RoB.

And you know I'm not gonna make that trade. I'm taking a shot in the dark and trying to help you out a bit, don't be so spiteful.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Well I do know that in your current state that Luigi isn't worth much, so like a blind trade on my end isn't that bad for you. I do also hold Rule 3, don't think you've seen that one.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yeah Big Yoshi Fan, definitely let me give you rule 3 before accepting that trade

[VashtaNeurotic]

If you accept for Rule 2 I'll give you rule 3, @ Big Yoshi Fan

[VashtaNeurotic]

Well, trade for rule 3

[VashtaNeurotic]

Why am I suspicious, rah? I mean yes, I think I can pull something off with it, but you know strictly speaking that you are better off for points if you make that trade.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Or some trade around it.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, sorry for the undercutting of your deals, but we both know why I'm doing that.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Oh boy Haschel, that's a really bold move you are making.

[VashtaNeurotic]

That trade is a go home trade. Easy go home trade.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I'll gladly give you a link for a pikachu btw, by my calculations, it puts you up on points, but I'm more concerned about rahla than you.

[VashtaNeurotic]

ESPECIALLY if you are going to make that trade

[VashtaNeurotic]

I can also throw rule 17 into the deal if you'd like, but not sure how much it's worth to you, at least not directly.

[VashtaNeurotic]

You might want to add rahla to that list, you've read rule 3 after all.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Any trade for information you are willing to offer to make me understand. I know you started with rule 3, are you sure he doesn't?
ESPECIALLY after that trade with Haschel gave him a very obvious lead

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway Haschel.

Offer Link and Rule 17 for Pikachu and Rule 6 or Pikachu and Rule 7

[VashtaNeurotic]

Fair is fair. Especially since you know what one of them does. You'll see that the math still has you up if my math is correct.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I don't even know what Marth does

Makes you the leader by a scary amount.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Anyway Haschel, do you wish to negotiate a high stakes trade?

[VashtaNeurotic]

To be fair, I don't ahve that rule anymore, mainly cause you weren't around.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Like I said, I have Rule 17 and am willing to give you a link and that for Pikachu and a rule I have not seen (preferably one that's relevant. We can start from there and negotiate around it. Seem good?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Wait, chamber you know what falcon and jiggly do? Any way I can find out that info?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Haschel Rule 17 and Link for Pikachu and one of rules 1, 2 and 7 [\b]

[VashtaNeurotic]

Offer Haschel Rule 17 and Link for Pikachu and one of rules 1, 2 and 7

[VashtaNeurotic]

what am I supposed to do with all these Wall-Es? has anyone got a rule for them?

I might have one.

Offer Rule 17 and Yoshi to N for 2 R.O.Bs and rule 11 or 2 R.O.Bs and rule 15

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also Haschel, really, you aren't going to even talk to me about my offer, for shame.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I'd much rather like to know what one of those do before I make a trade like that.....

[VashtaNeurotic]

I don't know what rules contain information on either of those characters....and the characters I do know about you don't really have.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I can infer yes, but typically one can not infer completely. For example it could be a simple rule like the mario one, or it could be a complicated rule like the luigi one. Meanwhile a miscalculation could be fatal and I could accidentally hand someone hundreds of points. As such I prefer to deal with what I know. If you know where those rules are direct me to them and I'll gladly trade for them and then we can speak.

[VashtaNeurotic]

So you aren't interested in making a fair trade, got it.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I know, but you left it open, and like, the point of the game is to haggle, sometimes incomplete information is all you have, but regardless it is still better for both parties to be informed from a detached, non personal perspective.

[VashtaNeurotic]

you mean you want me to give up something I'm currently trying to trade to get more of, for something I have absolutely no idea what it does.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I would consider it if you were able to get me two or three, captain falcon appears to be very valuable to you.

[VashtaNeurotic]

You say that not knowing the value of R.O.B

[VashtaNeurotic]

Okay so based upon the rules I know there is no way I'm first. Also I just woke up, so haschel no feeling about my offer or did you reject it?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo ani, anyway I could get some pikachu or robs?

[VashtaNeurotic]

What rules do you have haschel? I was just trading for rules I hadn't seen mate

[VashtaNeurotic]

I have Rule 13.

Offer Rule 13 + Pikachu for Rule 17 + Link

Accept

Well, hopefully I didn't just make a huge mistake.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Quite the rule there. Is there anyone who has not seen rule 13 or 3?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Is jigglypuff really that valuable?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Ah yes, Rule 17. To be fair, it makes it clear that it's a lot closer between you and me than people think, no, Haschel?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo irrelephant, have you seen 13 by any chance?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Also, where is the falcon rule? Or the yoshi one?

[VashtaNeurotic]

I mean, to be fair, I have no clue what jigglypuff is worth, but it seems like Irrelephant gave you exodia. If that is true, well played. If not, well, there's still 2 days. I do think the math on our deal does put me up, however.

Also, information is sort of valuable to me, but given the distribution of CFs and me knowing what a marth is worth tells me that CF is something I'd rather have than give away. Also I can't get jigglypuffs since Haschel owns them all.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Why did you give him jiggles for 2 rules then?

[VashtaNeurotic]

I know it seems weird, but I think you should just give me the jigglypuff rule, that way I can figure out if there is a way, and maybe I can help you get closer to the lead.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Lol, giving someone everything of something you don't know the rule on? Really?

[VashtaNeurotic]

Alliance that could stab me in the back? Honestly, sure, at this point.

offer vashta a Yoshi and rule 7 for a Yoshi

also where tf is the Kirby rule and why is someone being stingy with it

pedit: ouch, just trying to get by in a game where I've never had full info and I can tell I'm losing. two rules was a big offer from my POV

Accept

[VashtaNeurotic]

I can get that, it's just that rules aren't great bargaining chips and when in doubt you should assume that the rarer something is, the more valuable it is. Though I'm not one to speak, this is like, the first time I've played this.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Irrelephant, I want you falcon. Can we do anything?
Vash, I have a rob now. still need more than 1 to be interested?

A single rob is not worth more than most of the rest of my hand, unless I were to give you links, but links are literally worthless at this point

[VashtaNeurotic]

not really, no. Like I'm not really too interested in singular robs. singular robs are really weak.

[VashtaNeurotic]

what rules do you have? more that willing to trade

[VashtaNeurotic]

concede

[VashtaNeurotic]

So yeah Haschel likely has more than double what anyone else has, so like, the only way anyone else wins is if we all decide to help someone other than Haschel win, though I'm not quite sure how easy that will be the only way I can think of it working is if I literally have all the R.O.Bs. More than willing to give the jigglypuff rule to anyone or talk about why we should support someone other than Haschel (main reason is the rule he had to gain this lead was one he just happened to be given at game start, meanwhile other people had to haggle for their main strategy), but yeah, best I can do is offer

One Link for Three or More R. O. B s

This deal is repeatable so long as I still have Links.
No one will likely take me up on the offer, but it's the only thing I can think of that can possibly get a win for anyone other than Haschel.

[VashtaNeurotic]

I mean it's less "Haschel started with a rule" and more, "Haschel started with a rule that basically led to insta win so long as very few people knew about it". Like sure other rules allow people to make game plans, but like, the condition on this to get all those points (though I don't know the trade off so maybe in hindsight it is a big trade off), seems like very little as compared to say, the luigi or even pikachu rule, both of which get you way fewer points. And like even when one person doesn't have them, it basically makes the game between the people who do. Though to be fair, that's more a thought on game design than anything. Anyway, I'm fine with getting third or maybe even second anyway. GG all, last offer still stands.

Offer Rule 7 for any Rule not owned by Haschel or Irrelephant

[VashtaNeurotic]

That was a lot closer than I thought. Good game all, it was a lot of fun even though I wasn't around for most of the end.

In light of the kirby rule, the jigglypuff rule isn't as bad as I thought, but I still think it was poorly designed. Like the rule was basically jigglypuff is worth 100 points due to that condition on Kirbys (and that's if you only have 1). And if something is going to be worth that much, you need a pretty strong condition for it to be worth that much, which, well isn't just not having a certain type. Getting rid of 2 of a card that people actually want to have is not that difficult, and getting a card that only you know the value of can be difficult if you do it poorly (like I did with pikachu) but not too much. Furthermore, like, people might be able to extrapolate that jigglypuff is valuable, but not that it was far more valuable than any other card in the game, which means that people will never assume it is that valuable ( rarity doesn't atfect this too much, after all DK was worth comparatively little and was the rarest thing in the game). Like, at it's best Kirby was worth 40 points a piece and required you to fill a third of your hand, luigi had a super harsh condition to be worth 40 points each, and to get 50 points on the links you basically needed to risk half your hand being worthless the rest of the game. Even with the pikachu rule you also had to flood your hand, and the only real way of doing this easily required a roll of the dice on R.O.Bs, which did penalize me due to the condition to get that. Meanwhile with jigglypuff, it was worth way more than any of those others for a condition that can be just as easy or harder to meet, making them rarer also just means that fewer players get that bonus.

Regardless, that was certainly a lot of fun to play and try to figure stuff out with. Despite my disagreement on that, huge props to mallow for designing all of this and being around to run it. Would be interesting to see the pandemonium of doing things like this live, but damn would a mod have to be active. I also think it would be interest to have a variant with say, a third of the rules being public at game start and see how that goes.