Open 725: Jungle Republic - Day 5
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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AP is better at it than me but we're on roughly the same page atm I think-
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AP Mafia Scum
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Yes.In post 299, Sando wrote:So both of you (AP+duckling) are confident you can read him but you currently don't have enough info?YEAH BABY YEAH!
Oh, behave-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Copy that. Confident of a D2 read?In post 301, AP wrote:
Yes.In post 299, Sando wrote:So both of you (AP+duckling) are confident you can read him but you currently don't have enough info?
For anyone new to NM, he's gonna lolhammer anyone put to L-1, it's fairly amusing despite the predictability.-
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ceejayvinoya he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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NM has like what? 6 posts? Agree that there's nothing much to sort him with yet.In post 301, AP wrote:
Yes.In post 299, Sando wrote:So both of you (AP+duckling) are confident you can read him but you currently don't have enough info?Ceejay is only gonna get better but his logic can be on the wrong side of lazy logic sometimes. ~the worst-
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ceejayvinoya he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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ceejayvinoya he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Okay I'm gonna assume you're not werewolf then. Possibly could still be scum tho.In post 253, Sando wrote:
Neither of us were ignorant of it, we both assumed it due to the role PMs not mentioning it, and we both missed the actual statement in the mechanics part that is totally clear.In post 251, ceejayvinoya wrote:Um. What if UD and Sando really are ignorant of the fact that mafia can't kill? I glossed over those posts and thought them NAI, because they could go either way.
Not sure about uglyduck because skitter said that he has a history of dumbtelling.Ceejay is only gonna get better but his logic can be on the wrong side of lazy logic sometimes. ~the worst-
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AP Mafia Scum
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See, that's the problem. I'd usually peg him off his opening 2-3 posts. He hasn't towntold after 6 posts.In post 302, Sando wrote:Copy that. Confident of a D2 read?YEAH BABY YEAH!
Oh, behave-
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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if this day doesn't get spicy and he doesn't town tell we should lynch him d1.
btw if he is town here there's a curse. you can't lynch him after d1 or we die-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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@sando:
=> I'm saying that I don't think that not reading it is AI tbh. Lots of people just don't bother reading my posts and I haven't seen a correlation between 'reading complicated posts' and 'alignment'
=> I tried to answer your question as best I can: I don't have a read on him right now. I don't know if your conclusion about scum/bad town is correct or incorrect cuz I don't have a read. Or, more accurately, I don't have a read that I'm confident enough in to actually pick a side (if I *had* to pick, I'd give a *very* slight townlean but it wouldn't be enough to feel confident about that read in singleball, and most certainly not in multiball).
I'm not throwing shade. I'm saying that your original case/read on him was very hedge-y, and didn't come to a firm conclusion. From that post alone, it looked like you were scum-casing him, and I almost expected a vote from you on him after I read it, but you left the conclusion open to being 'lazy town or scum', and didn't commit to one or the other till I pressed you. I don't particularly find your 'bad-town' read on him to be real or convincing; your original post left it ambiguous and when ceejay there voted because of your post, you didn't clarify that you're actually 'bad-town'-casing him in that post and not scum-casing him. ie you didn't really seem to have a problem with ceejay voting someone because of a case you wrote that wasn't actually a scumcase, but rather a bad-towncase
=> It's purely about your reaction to it andhow you framed your case on him to make him look scummy(ie to the point where people viewed it as a scumcase and voted there because of it) even though you aren't calling him scum.
Like I get all of this. I understand why you're telling me you've come to the conclusion of bad town and why his posting is bad, and this isn't what I have a problem with. What I don't get is why you're initial post looks like a scumcase and is framing his half of the convo in a bad/scummy light when your actual argument is that he isn't scum. Or why that post was made at all if you weren't trying to scumcase him. And now that I think about it, how it was even a response to the original question that I asked: why you were speaking for UD.In post 296, Sando wrote:Unless you actually want to address my points, about his posting being bad, scumhunting and Hanlons razor, my actual reasoning for it being town instead of scum...then this is a totally pointless conversation.
I'm not waffling: I'm telling you that I think that you were scummy in how you presented your read on MWNN because it looks like you're trying to frame him in a scummy light when you aren't actually calling him scum. Like it looks to me more about trying to discredit MWNN in an attempt to distract from his vote on you / his line of questioning than actually explaining a read on him. And I find it really weird that you didn't have a problem with ceejay voting there becuase of you when you *weren't* scumcasing him.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Not precisely dumbtelling but more like trying to distance himself from setup specifics in an attempt to indicate that because he doesn't know them he isn't scum.In post 305, ceejayvinoya wrote:
Okay I'm gonna assume you're not werewolf then. Possibly could still be scum tho.In post 253, Sando wrote:
Neither of us were ignorant of it, we both assumed it due to the role PMs not mentioning it, and we both missed the actual statement in the mechanics part that is totally clear.In post 251, ceejayvinoya wrote:Um. What if UD and Sando really are ignorant of the fact that mafia can't kill? I glossed over those posts and thought them NAI, because they could go either way.
Not sure about uglyduck because skitter said that he has a history of dumbtelling.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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So you're saying:In post 308, skitter30 wrote:Like I get all of this. I understand why you're telling me you've come to the conclusion of bad town and why his posting is bad, and this isn't what I have a problem with. What I don't get is why you're initial post looks like a scumcase and is framing his half of the convo in a bad/scummy light when your actual argument is that he isn't scum. Or why that post was made at all if you weren't trying to scumcase him. And now that I think about it, how it was even a response to the original question that I asked: why you were speaking for UD.
I'm not waffling: I'm telling you that I think that you were scummy in how you presented your read on MWNN because it looks like you're trying to frame him in a scummy light when you aren't actually calling him scum. Like it looks to me more about trying to discredit MWNN in an attempt to distract from his vote on you / his line of questioning than actually explaining a read on him. And I find it really weird that you didn't have a problem with ceejay voting there becuase of you when you *weren't* scumcasing him.
a) You understand my reasoning for bad town vs scum
b) You find it scummy that I made a case and didn't call him scum
...so you're saying I made a big deal about someone and then avoided calling him scum, as scum? Like...why? What would I be gaining there as scum? CJ picked up my case and ran with it and instead of realising I had a good mislynch target (well as scum I'd know he's at least not my faction and presumably CJ isn't buddying me as my scumpartner THAT closely), I decided to wind that back and say "nah, more likely to be town". C'mon, where's the logical scum-play here? What am I, as scum, hoping to achieve here?
You're literally doing this to me. You're not making your scumread on me clear, anyone reading our interaction in the last few pages would see that before this latest post you've never outright said I'm scummy. Lot's of "it's almost like" and "my problem is" and "feels like", without coming out and actually giving a scumpinion. And you're not voting me (or anyone, so it's not like you find someone else scummier). By your own logic, you're acting scummy here.In post 308, skitter30 wrote:I'm not waffling: I'm telling you that I think that you were scummy in how you presented your read on MWNN because it looks like you're trying to frame him in a scummy light when you aren't actually calling him scum.-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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Yes. I think you were more focused on explaining why his line of questioning shouldn't be listened to than explaining a read. That's my point - I think the goal of that post was more about discrediting him than anything else. I don't know if you were specifically trying to avoid calling him scum so much as you were focusing on why his read on you was bad; my problem is that in doing so, you attributed scummy behavior to him, left it ambiguous as 'lazy town or scum', and then called him bad town when pressed, so I don't get why that whole post looked like a scumcase.In post 310, Sando wrote:...so you're saying I made a big deal about someone and then avoided calling him scum, as scum? Like...why? What would I be gaining there as scum?
I don't know why you didn't hop on, or why you didn't cultivate the wagon by proceeding to scumread MWNN when I asked. I also don't know why you didn't protest when someone else started a wagon on someone you're bad-town-reading because of a case you wrote.In post 310, Sando wrote:CJ picked up my case and ran with it and instead of realising I had a good mislynch target (well as scum I'd know he's at least not my faction and presumably CJ isn't buddying me as my scumpartner THAT closely), I decided to wind that back and say "nah, more likely to be town". C'mon, where's the logical scum-play here? What am I, as scum, hoping to achieve here?
This a writing/posting style thing and just how I write. Like those are just the phrases I use to describe things in general (and if you don't believe me you can just like ctrl+f my ISO in previous games; if I had to guess, 'feels like' will come up most often). And I like to think that I write clearly enough that people can understand my point without me having to frame my sentences as 'I find player A to be scummy because ...' or 'I townread player B because ...' .In post 310, Sando wrote:You're not making your scumread on me clear, anyone reading our interaction in the last few pages would see that before this latest post you've never outright said I'm scummy.Lot's of "it's almost like" and "my problem is" and "feels like", without coming out and actually giving a scumpinion.
No, I didn't explicitly say 'I think sando is scum because ...', but I made it very clear that I think you're behaving in a scummy fashion. My problem with you is that your post *looks* like it's scumcasing someone but apparently isn't, because when pressed you said you just think he's bad town, and I find that duplicitous.
Honestly forgot to move my vote to you
VOTE: sando-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Rofl, ok, so you can't actually explain a motivation for why I'd do what I'm doing as scum, but you're pretty sure I'm scum...nice scumhunting there...In post 311, skitter30 wrote:I don't know why you didn't hop on, or why you didn't cultivate the wagon by proceeding to scumread MWNN when I asked. I also don't know why you didn't protest when someone else started a wagon on someone you're bad-town-reading because of a case you wrote.
Also, my very next post after CJs vote was explaining to you that I thought it was most likely town...gee I'm soooooo sorry I didn't directly call out CJ there. I could have done exactly what you've just done, claim "forgetfulness" and drop my vote on him post CJ, instead I responded to you about how I think it's more likely town than not.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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This is beginning to feel quite a lot like the last iteration of jungle republic ....
I think you just weren't particularly planning on committing to a read either way cuz that wasn't the motivation of the post; you weren't trying to explain a read but rather discredit MWNN despite 'more likely than not' townreading him.In post 312, Sando wrote:Rofl, ok, so you can't actually explain a motivation for why I'd do what I'm doing as scum, but you're pretty sure I'm scum...nice scumhunting there...
Also, my very next post after CJs vote was explaining to you that I thought it was most likely town...gee I'm soooooo sorry I didn't directly call out CJ there. I could have done exactly what you've just done, claim "forgetfulness" and drop my vote on him post CJ, instead I responded to you about how I think it's more likely town than not.
Like my argument is that you 'wrote up a post that looks like a scumcase but apparently wasn't because you say you're townreading him to some degree, so I find that initial post to be discredit-y of MWNN', not that 'you deliberately avoided commiting to a read on someone you had made a thing about', which isn't quite the same thing, and I don't know why you'd do the latter.
And like, you still haven't protested the fact that ceejay's voting someone you think is more likely town than not based on a case that you wrote.-
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Why on earth would I protest it? CJ took what I posted and drew a different conclusion than me, so what? I'm clearly not very sure on my own conclusion, I said 60/40, which also just happens to be pretty much the ratio of town to scum (this was an accident, 60/40 was picked to show I'm really not sure).In post 314, skitter30 wrote:And like, you still haven't protested the fact that ceejay's voting someone you think is more likely town than not based on a case that you wrote.
I'm STILL not committing. What about "60/40" is committing? It's the ratio we started with, it's specifically NOT committing. He also just recently didn't make my townlist (which is very short), why on earth are you trying to paint me out to be TRing him? I was putting it out there to draw attention to it for others to compare with their experiences, things like "yeah I've played with him before, he's normally a really logical guy with committed questioning" or "nah man, that's just how he is".In post 314, skitter30 wrote:I think you just weren't particularly planning on committing to a read either way cuz that wasn't the motivation of the post; you weren't trying to explain a read but rather discredit MWNN despite 'more likely than not' townreading him.
Why aren't you protesting CJs vote? What do you think of it given you think he's sheeping scum?-
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Well, I see my strategy didn't work at all; that means I'll have to read the thread...In post 269, pinturicchio wrote:Ok I'm back. I have an experiment: if you're town, reply saying "I'm town". If you're not town, say "I'm not town". This is a bit risky but it could work
The good news is... it's muffin time!
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Sando Mafia Scum
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Duckling should be awake if you don't want to chat to a 1v1erIn post 317, pinturicchio wrote:Oh, it's skitter 1v1ing Sando, that will take some time. Is there someone here who I can chat with?-
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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I mean this post btwIn post 230, the worst wrote:out of sheer respect skitter, I assume you've thought through this at more levels than I have.
humour me with a few answers wrt 73 because it is 120% unadulterated reaching horse shit.
(ily Espe)
assumption having a case of the dumbs = scum is bad strike 1In post 73, Espeonage wrote:alrighty ducky, lets have a chat. bc you have a case of dumbs I'm not used to.
I see scum motivation in jumping onto bad reasoning the way he did.In post 73, Espeonage wrote:Hypothesis: You are ignoring that me being lazy is NAI because of a resounding OMGUS.
I don't see town motivation in jumping onto bad reasoning the way he did.
how is this NAI?
what am I jumping on that I don't believe?In post 73, Espeonage wrote:Supporting Evidence: In a multiball you need to focus on not falling behind and avoiding lynches because it is easier to towntell.
Conclusion: You are jumping on something you don't believe in because you feel it is good scum play day 1 of a multiball.
Espe was either 1) being sarcastic with his vote, which means he was literally doing this... OR
2) his vote was serious in which case I can't see town motivation in it.-
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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